Some scary facts

[Talvenada]

Originally Posted by Bionca

I'm not actually back, I took a gander at some other threads and the reasons I left are still very much part of the "friendly atmosphere".

BIONCA:

I love your spunk, and not the wet kind. You want a humane world, which is being ahead of your time. It took Jesus Christ to go from a barbarian world to a civilized world, and it will take a major event to go from a civilized world to a humane one. You, like me, live in a country where you have those who are open to other points of view, because they understand that no matter how smart they are there is so much they don't know. Then, there are those who have all the answers, and need not listen to those of another opinion. I won't label them, but if you notice they seem to have similar characteristics.


PM me on the friendly situation that troubles you, because being a t-girl exposes you to something that others don't see. YOU have had a major impact on this site, and if you go the many won't understand reality from fantasy. Sometimes, you're even sexy. Like it or not, you are the t-girl that the other t-girls look up to. You are the one with the balls! You will fall many more times, and get up just as often.

PM me on what troubles you, as I didn't get what the hint was. I can only guess, but without certainty.


Piece,


TAL

[Bionca]

Originally Posted by Talvenada

BIONCA:

I love your spunk, and not the wet kind. You want a humane world, which is being ahead of your time. It took Jesus Christ to go from a barbarian world to a civilized world, and it will take a major event to go from a civilized world to a humane one. You, like me, live in a country where you have those who are open to other points of view, because they understand that no matter how smart they are there is so much they don't know. Then, there are those who have all the answers, and need not listen to those of another opinion. I won't label them, but if you notice they seem to have similar characteristics.


PM me on the friendly situation that troubles you, because being a t-girl exposes you to something that others don't see. YOU have had a major impact on this site, and if you go the many won't understand reality from fantasy. Sometimes, you're even sexy. Like it or not, you are the t-girl that the other t-girls look up to. You are the one with the balls! You will fall many more times, and get up just as often.

PM me on what troubles you, as I didn't get what the hint was. I can only guess, but without certainty.


Piece,


TAL

Tal,

It's not a big deal why I'm not really participating here much. The all to frequent mis-gendering of trans women, being described as a "fetish" (sexual attraction to objects or body parts not conventionally viewed as being sexual in nature), and the ever popular "real woman" comments.

Having to have these conversation in, you know, my day-to-day life makes having these conversations here tiring and frustrating. The fact that these comments and attitudes are nearly always confronted by myself or one of the other gals with very little support from the guys makes me wonder why I spend time here.

I initially wanted to give a non-sex working TGs perspective on relationships, sex, and living. To give humanity to the images. However, I'm not really feeling that many guys actually WANT to "get it". I used to come here and joke around, flirt, and make some corrections where folks had some facts or opinions that I thought should be clarified.

Lately, I read comments and wonder what guys honestly think about trans women. I wonder how the attitudes expressed here were shared by the folks in the link I gave above. If I'm not "real" enough, if I'm an OBJECT that has been sexualized, if I am a dirty secret - to guys who have the awareness to share their desires for trans women (even if on the Internet) - what hope is there in my world where I walk and no person knows I'm a Trans woman.

If I have to defend my right to self-identification, or my claim to be who I know I am, or to even claim status as a person who CAN be "sexual in nature". If I need to have this conversation alone (at least it feels like it) time after time in a place that should feel safe(er) what's the point?

[hankhavelock]

Originally Posted by Bionca

Tal,

The all to frequent mis-gendering of trans women, being described as a "fetish" (sexual attraction to objects or body parts not conventionally viewed as being sexual in nature), and the ever popular "real woman" comments.

Lately the tone has changed here - and even among a particular group of trans*women there now seems to be an acceptance of fetish, castration and porn-selling as the comme-il-faute - as the modus operandum that is to be accepted as completely ok... I can promise you that I've made some real enemies here over the last weeks simply because I don't buy into all that trans*minimalizing crap.

And when the trans*women themselves start to attack me for what I consider quite reasonable and learned approaches to what a social approach to transsexuality should be, then I too wonder what I'm doing here.

The mix of ppl is changing here - less educated and more militant folks with particular agendas are entering, apparently. Unfortunately I've not from a single one of them met any opinions that I could relate to as particularily trans*realistic.

So maybe it's time to "pull our pants up" (no pun intended) and in my case to stop worrying so much what's going on at a particular forum that's clearly changing focus and habitus and in stead move back into the real life which in my case is luckily and abundantly peopled by the most amazing trans*women in the world.

Our "ancient" views are hardly gonna be missed here any more... ;-)

H

[randolph]

Well Hank, you are in the enviable position of being in an environment where you can enjoy the beauty and love of transsexual women. Most of us have to rely on our fantasies for the experience.

[Bionca]

Originally Posted by hankhavelock

Lately the tone has changed here - and even among a particular group of trans*women there now seems to be an acceptance of fetish, castration and porn-selling as the comme-il-faute - as the modus operandum that is to be accepted as completely ok... I can promise you that I've made some real enemies here over the last weeks simply because I don't buy into all that trans*minimalizing crap.

And when the trans*women themselves start to attack me for what I consider quite reasonable and learned approaches to what a social approach to transsexuality should be, then I too wonder what I'm doing here.

The mix of ppl is changing here - less educated and more militant folks with particular agendas are entering, apparently. Unfortunately I've not from a single one of them met any opinions that I could relate to as particularily trans*realistic.

So maybe it's time to "pull our pants up" (no pun intended) and in my case to stop worrying so much what's going on at a particular forum that's clearly changing focus and habitus and in stead move back into the real life which in my case is luckily and abundantly peopled by the most amazing trans*women in the world.

Our "ancient" views are hardly gonna be missed here any more... ;-)

H

Hank

Not sure what to say. I think your participation is quite valuable and you have a perspective that is lacking on many sites where guys like you talk about gals like me.

[johndowe]

Hi there.

In order to accomplish accomplish something you have to do something, you seem to be a strong person, morally and intellectually, although a bit rash at times, which isn't alwasy a bad thing.

Did you see the movie "Milk", (i haven't) but i hear the main character was a young gay man who wanted gays to be recognized as a minority, he started his political career in his late twenties, and got elected in his late forties, it took him 20 years to get to the point where he could do something, he was of the ultra gay type, and still he overcame and won in the end, he didn't quit when the going got a little rough, he took his lumps and persevered, quitter do not accomplish anything.

So Bionca, ARE YOU A QUITTER?

So you have to repeat youself over and over, big deal a waist of a bit of spit, or a few keystrokes on your keyboard, if that little effort is too much for you then by all means quit, you don't have the guts to even try to change the situation even here where averybody is pro tg in a porn type of view, but still pro tg.

But i don't think you are that weak, you may be facing some personnal problems, but then who doesn't, the Bionca i have read so far is far more of a fighter than a quitter, she speaks her mind, so where is that Bionca that i have come to "know" and respect? Even if i don't always agree with her views.

Before i read your post in my "Post op reason" thread i was a bit more ignorant about trans related problems, you showed me a side i had never tought of or imagined, ok i did start that thread to learn more about t-girls and i did, i had an open mind, but others read your ansewer and the other's and some don't objectify tg as much, it may not be that much, but it IS something, a start, a small step, but then, even the longest trip starts with one step.

It is your choice to quit or not to quit, but i don't think you should.

If you choose to stick around, remember that you do attract more flies with honey than vinegar.

JohnDowe.

[Bionca]

Funny you should mention Harvy Milk - you know he was assassinated by a hetero guy who didn't really do the time for it? I understand what you are saying, and I appreciate the sentiment. I just don't want to be a martyr or another statistic on that link I posted.

As far as fighting/standing up for myself. I did that, I do that, and I am happy to educate folks in my daily face-to-face life. I expect a level of confusion and uninformed comments from most people. However, I have higher expectations for guys who *claim* to respect/fuck/lust over/desire/whatever trans women. Having to educate guys on why "real woman" is problematic *HERE* is itself a problem. Having to be the one to point that out is a problem - when there are way more guys who know better here than there are trans women willing to address that.

This is a problem because it ALWAYS opens up conversation where I am put in a position to justify my identity and my experience and my understanding vs. someones memory of High School Biology class. That is not fun for me, that is not comfortable, and that does little to convince me that I'm wrong in my mistrust of men who claim to like gals like me. It makes me laugh to think someone would tell a French Man what France is really like based on a school Geography project (it is really the same thing when people tell me what being Trans is, in spite of me disagreeing).

Honey and vinegar both have uses. I'm not always trying to attract files - sometimes the pesky guy needs swatted.

[johndowe]

HI there.

Before i read your reply on the "Post Op Reason" thread i started, i was ok abou t the word "shemale" after reding it, i'm not so confortable about it, because of you, i realized that it is disrespectfull.

And i understand that most of the guys here are objectifying girls like you, but aren't guys that go to strip clubs, buy men's magazines objectifying women also? and those women and girls like you, aren't they objectifying themselves intentionally, to make a living?

The MARTHYR?

The only ones that want to be marthys are terrorists and in the end do they accomplish that, maby amongst their own, maby, but not anywhere else, also playing the victim may get some sympathy, but only for you and very little for your cause, and it IS weak, when i get in a confrontational situation, i do my best to do so form a position of strenght, cause if you start from a position of weakness, well winning is almost not an option.

When i said: "You attract more flies with honey than vinegar" i didn't mean attracting dates, i meant attracting people to your "cause", but i understand about the swatting.

Also i almost forgot that i ALMOST had a 1 night stand wit a girl like you, i had spent the evening with her, and spent quite a bit on the drinks, then at her place she wanted to charge me $50.00 to have sex with her, i didn't expect her to put out because i had spent some money on her, but if she was ok with spendong more time with me at her place, great, but i objected to paying her for sex, and the fact that i only had $30-35 left, so i left as she said that ALL the girls charged, well guess what i was put off and i never went back there.

AND when i left the club with her i went out the front door and i wasn't ashamed to be with her, and everybody that was near to the club knew that it was a tgirl club, and she was one of the nicest looking girls there.

So, the problem isn't just the guys objectifying the girls, but also the girls objectifying themselves, your goal shouldn't be to try to change the guys, but to get the message out that tgirls as other women aren't sex objects but are only human beeings that have feelings and asperations, and in order to make a living objectify themselves, and as such should not be disrespected or looked down upon.

I hope you will continue your "vigil" but i do respect the fact that it is your decision, i have said what i had to say, i will ansewer you, should you ask me something, but i will mo longer pester you about it.

JohnDowe.