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  #1  
Old 07-01-2008
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Originally Posted by hankhavelock View Post
I, ofcourse, know, that u'r shitting me a lill bit here in a friendly way, Marlowe ;-)H
Well I was having some fun with "The Joy of Sex" thing but no, I'm not shitting you H. I meant what I said about your enthusiasm. And that's the point; your enthusiasm, and passion, and your experience will carry you a long way if you want to try and write something. It helps a lot if someone has something to say and believes in it. Your English is fine and you can always find someone to proof read and help with the fine tuning of language.
Like you say time is a big issue, I think it takes a lot of time and commitment to write something substantial. The Phd at Honkkong sounds a really interesting idea so I hope if it's what you want to do you can find a way to make it work.
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Old 07-01-2008
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Originally Posted by marlowe View Post
Well I was having some fun with "The Joy of Sex" thing but no, I'm not shitting you H. I meant what I said about your enthusiasm. And that's the point; your enthusiasm, and passion, and your experience will carry you a long way if you want to try and write something. It helps a lot if someone has something to say and believes in it. Your English is fine and you can always find someone to proof read and help with the fine tuning of language.
Like you say time is a big issue, I think it takes a lot of time and commitment to write something substantial. The Phd at Honkkong sounds a really interesting idea so I hope if it's what you want to do you can find a way to make it work.
Well, thank you again :-) Hmmm, I do admit that I feel I have a lot to say and tell about this my absolute favourite topic... I used to be quite active on a Danish forum as well. I was interesting to learn about trans-life in my old country - VERY different from here, I'd say.

What I appreciated about this here forum from the beginning, how ever, was the good-natured tone and what seemed to be a healthy interest in debating matters in a constructive way. And blissfully free of flaming and blaming. I also find it important that we're both girls and guys here sharing thoughts, wishes and experiences.

A PhD is currently not possible for me - simply because of the time such a project requires. When I said Kinsey-style study I was actually not kidding. And it would do a lot of good here to cast light on transsexual existense in this amazing land. It would, how ever, demand for not only a full time approach but also for substantial amounts of money as I would not be able to conduct all the necessary interviews myself - in other words, I'd have to hire and train assistants to actually go out there in the field and do the interviews. This is not per se impossible - I'm fairly well connected in the LGBT-community here, but it's just not realistic for me right now. Of course, I could (and probably would) limit my initial approach to the Jakarta area - a cute lill town of 23 mill. ppl :-) but it'd still be somewhat of a task...

Hmmm... but a little book? That does seem more manageable right now. And with a wee help from my friends... ;-)

Let's say I'll throw myself into it. What narrative concept would you then suggest? I can immediately say that my goal with such a publication (in which ever form it would have) would be exactly the same as here: via my own example to try to make the good folks realize that it is indeed possible to follow your heart and reap the fruits - that there really IS no reason to be afraid. It would also be a combination of illustrative examples and my own evolved "pocket-philosophies" which are obviously 100% empiric and not in any ways based on anything scientific.

I can also say that even though there would be some mildly juicy parts, then the sexual part of it would be very minor (just enuff to make the "dry stuff" go down as well :-)) Remember, that writing at a forum like this, where I'm among friends, is a totally different story than going public like that - and the last thing I'd want would be to enhance the lay-ppl's biases that we're a bunch of oversexed freaks :-) So the emotional content - which is btw also 1000 times more important to me than the sexual one - I can't BELIEVE I'm writing this...:-) - would be the focus.

What do you think?

H
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Old 07-01-2008
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Hmmm... but a little book? That does seem more manageable right now. And with a wee help from my friends... ;-)

Let's say I'll throw myself into it. What narrative concept would you then suggest?
Well what you say here shows you already have a good feel for what you might do and IMO it fits. My thoughts: Yes, it's narrative, it's in the genre 'narrative nonfiction' or 'creative nonfiction', or to use a more old fashioned term 'memoir'. 'Narrative' is important: it should have a beginning, a middle, and an end; ie. arrival in Indonesia, encounters with transgender folk, revelation (where that journey has brought you to now).

Quote:
I can immediately say that my goal with such a publication (in which ever form it would have) would be exactly the same as here: via my own example to try to make the good folks realize that it is indeed possible to follow your heart and reap the fruits - that there really IS no reason to be afraid.
Hmm... clearly this is the underlying theme and important, but in the first instance I think your goal should be to tell your story in a way that engages readers. How you describe experiences, encounters, discoveries, etc. is the substance. Simply banging on (excuse the pun) about your beliefs could become tiring.

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It would also be a combination of illustrative examples and my own evolved "pocket-philosophies" which are obviously 100% empiric and not in any ways based on anything scientific.
That's the great thing about memoir, it can easily include episodes that are either more expository or persuasive in intention.

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I can also say that even though there would be some mildly juicy parts, then the sexual part of it would be very minor (just enuff to make the "dry stuff" go down as well :-)) Remember, that writing at a forum like this, where I'm among friends, is a totally different story than going public like that - and the last thing I'd want would be to enhance the lay-ppl's biases that we're a bunch of oversexed freaks :-)
Agreed. You have an interesting viewpoint as a foreigner in Asia. Most peoples awareness, if any, is of Thailand as a ladyboy play4pay tourist paradise. I think it's to your advantage that your experiences are in Indonesia where the transgender scene is not so hyped.
Also I think it's tricky to pull off the sex stuff, unless what you wanted to write was in the 'sex confessional' genre. Mostly that genre is sensationalist and shallow. There was a book a few years ago called "The Surrender" by a ballet dancer called Toni Bentley which was about her discovery of, and passion for, anal sex. It made a bit of a splash and was described as a 'sodomy memoir'!

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So the emotional content - which is btw also 1000 times more important to me than the sexual one - I can't BELIEVE I'm writing this...:-) - would be the focus.
Yes! That's why I think it's a good story to tell.

I reckon you should try to sketch out a structure; key events, encounters, people, that sort of thing, and see if it starts to form a sequence. That shouldn't take long. Grab a pencil, paper, a couple of Bintangs (do they still have that?), or better still some of that strong javanese coffee, find some shade and off you go.

Last edited by marlowe; 07-01-2008 at 12:08 PM.
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  #4  
Old 07-02-2008
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Grab a pencil, paper, a couple of Bintangs (do they still have that?)...and off you go.
U can count on it, mate!!! And they a colder than ever! :-)

Very good points, thank u - ok, I guess, I'll give it a go...

Cheers!

H
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Old 07-02-2008
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Default Hank nailed it

This thread has taken an interesting turn!

Hank absolutely nailed it:

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the emotional content - which is btw also 1000 times more important to me than the sexual one -
The emotional content -- that's really why I joined this forum. The pics are great, but I'm really much more interested in matters of the heart. Why do we humans behave the way we do? We are such amazing creatures once we step beyond the bogus boundaries of "thou shalt not."

This transsexual phenomenon is endlessly fascinating, and deserves a thorough scientific study as well as memoirs and documentaries. I agree with Hank that a proper study would take a lot of time and money to do it right. A memoir seems much more feasible, and after reading your posts, I'm convinced you could do a fabulous job, Hank! You already have a lot of fans eagerly awaiting your memoir.

The transsexual impulse has always been there in our species, and deserves a historical survey in its own right. But only recently have all the factors come together -- almost total freedom if you've got the money to pay for it; hormones; electrolysis; implants; reconstructive surgery -- to allow a man to transform himself into an amazing facsimile of a genetic woman... what is, for all practical purposes, an entirely new sex. And after all is said and done, when we look at a transwoman we are looking at the outward manifestation of an inner impulse. And it's this inner impulse that fascinates me so much. By any definition, a transwoman is an artist, and her canvas is her own body. Transwomen are taking body modification to unprecedented new heights of creativity.

What is this inner impulse that drives a person to go through all the time, money, pain and discouragement to complete this transformation? An amazing amount of dedication, determination, focus, and sheer grit is necessary to complete the task. Transwomen are admirable beyond compare.

Thanks to everybody for stimulating this and all the other discussions.
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  #6  
Old 07-03-2008
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This thread has taken an interesting turn!

Hank absolutely nailed it:



The emotional content -- that's really why I joined this forum. The pics are great, but I'm really much more interested in matters of the heart. Why do we humans behave the way we do? We are such amazing creatures once we step beyond the bogus boundaries of "thou shalt not."

This transsexual phenomenon is endlessly fascinating, and deserves a thorough scientific study as well as memoirs and documentaries. I agree with Hank that a proper study would take a lot of time and money to do it right. A memoir seems much more feasible, and after reading your posts, I'm convinced you could do a fabulous job, Hank! You already have a lot of fans eagerly awaiting your memoir.

The transsexual impulse has always been there in our species, and deserves a historical survey in its own right. But only recently have all the factors come together -- almost total freedom if you've got the money to pay for it; hormones; electrolysis; implants; reconstructive surgery -- to allow a man to transform himself into an amazing facsimile of a genetic woman... what is, for all practical purposes, an entirely new sex. And after all is said and done, when we look at a transwoman we are looking at the outward manifestation of an inner impulse. And it's this inner impulse that fascinates me so much. By any definition, a transwoman is an artist, and her canvas is her own body. Transwomen are taking body modification to unprecedented new heights of creativity.

What is this inner impulse that drives a person to go through all the time, money, pain and discouragement to complete this transformation? An amazing amount of dedication, determination, focus, and sheer grit is necessary to complete the task. Transwomen are admirable beyond compare.

Thanks to everybody for stimulating this and all the other discussions.
The emotional content is what matters. I've been a bad boy and all that shit - still am I guess - but that´s not related to my lovers' gender. The sole fact remains that only with a sweet, dear, gorgeous, wonderful, grrr, intelligent, academic, super, DEEP trans-woman do I feel truly "at home".

And ain't NO WAY that's gonna change... been with cisgendered ladies also in my path, obviously, but the fact remains, that they simply don't make me rock'n roll any more... oh well... no, they don't...

Let me illustrate what I mean by an example: I went out (this is actually a long time ago, but it sticks to me) with gorgeous Melanie. She was in a personal turmoil. Should she go to live with that German guy who offered her gold and green pastures and who was a gay man, or should she stay true to the trans-part of herself that could never feel truly satisfied by a mere homosexual relationship? Mel is not a full-timer, but she has transsexuality in her in a very beautiful way.

She was crying (her sweet make up was aestetically and dramatically running down her fabulous face), I kissed her tears, and in the end she chose to go with that man - only to return two weeks later, because it didn't rock her either.

And that's neither the first nor the last time I've been a witness to that story.

So unless the emotions are totally there, then there really is no point! BUT this is part of the transsexual dilemma that makes me go crazy. Both in a positive and negative way. I get frustrated when she talks about giving up her female side for some gay dude... on the other hand I realize that she may need it to get closer to her self. And in the end they all come back - of course, because being a trans woman is not about "some guy" - it's about finding one self in a bumped but beautiful way to a kind of self-recognition that very, very few people will ever have the courage or privilege to reach in life.

That's why!

H
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Old 12-21-2008
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Originally Posted by marlowe View Post
Well what you say here shows you already have a good feel for what you might do and IMO it fits. My thoughts: Yes, it's narrative, it's in the genre 'narrative nonfiction' or 'creative nonfiction', or to use a more old fashioned term 'memoir'. 'Narrative' is important: it should have a beginning, a middle, and an end; ie. arrival in Indonesia, encounters with transgender folk, revelation (where that journey has brought you to now).
Yes! The structure can even be Campbellian. That is:

DEPARTURE (Beginning)

INITIATION (Middle)

RETURN (End)

Joseph Campbell was really writing about the emancipating function of mythology and the way it seemed to fit within this basic structure. It's more mental / spiritual than physical / literal, too -- i.e. you don't necessarily have to physically depart (though travel and displacement are recurrent metaphors in mythology) but you instead depart from your old beliefs and limitations as an individual, becoming more aware of the "larger world" (a Star Wars quote) around you, going through trials (and error ) in one's initiation and returning or reconciling with one's old self with the "boon" (a Campbell quote) of new knowledge and understanding, garnered directly through experience.

If the book was written in THAT manner, then it might read as a powerful statement about the liberating function of life for those bold enough to embrace it. In this respect, it would also RAISE AWARENESS in others as to their own dogmas and prejudices and ENCOURAGE them to move beyond their fears. I'm sure Hank already has this intuitive awareness and would accordingly make an excellent storyteller. If you've really got a story to tell, the book should almost write itself.

Anyway, there have been some really insightful and articulate replies in this thread, all coming from unique angles. This is the sort of thread that validates the "Shemale-Chat" forum and the board's continued importance beyond titillation.
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