fear

[Bionca]

Originally Posted by sesame

Bionca turns out to be a hardcore Man-Hater feminist!
Yet she looks forward to date with those cowards!
What a contradiction that is!

I am a feminist, and I love men. I do think that *most* (not all) men are cowards in their personal lives. Like I have as my sig.....

[LoverofShemales]

Originally Posted by Bionca

I am a feminist, and I love men. I do think that *most* (not all) men are cowards in their personal lives. Like I have as my sig.....

Bionca... this could actually be a thread on its own and I think many would agree with you but they don't have the courage to admit it. Many men are too proud and macho to let their guard down for a second and become vulnerable which would in turn show the world who they really are. the sad thing is that the person that they really are is probably a good, decent person who wants to be kind to others. This is not to say that they still wouldn't rather watch a slam bang no holds barred action thriller with lots of violence, swearing and nudity over say... When Harry met Sally but I think you know what I mean.

[hankhavelock]

Originally Posted by LoverofShemales

Bionca... this could actually be a thread on its own and I think many would agree with you but they don't have the courage to admit it. Many men are too proud and macho to let their guard down for a second and become vulnerable which would in turn show the world who they really are. the sad thing is that the person that they really are is probably a good, decent person who wants to be kind to others. This is not to say that they still wouldn't rather watch a slam bang no holds barred action thriller with lots of violence, swearing and nudity over say... When Harry met Sally but I think you know what I mean.

"I know what u'r thinking, punk... did she "fire" six times or only five... xxx..."

Yep, I definitely LOOOVE some action, especially when combined with a wee bit of romance ;-)

I just never really digged the "pride-thing". I'm NOT with transsexual women because it may be particularly "cool", but F*** it IS cool too... there's nothing better than to arrive at some club (or go to the mall, for that matter) as a couple... and she is a "he". I admit to really enjoying that part... :-) I BASK in the astonished looks from the cisgendered on-lookers when we appear hand-in-hand and openly kissing and enjoying each other in full public. It's BEAUTIFUL! And also very real and very true!

I have never had a trans-gf that I was not truly PROUD to show off and be with.

And I'm not special AT ALL! All you guys can do the same. It's all a matter of having a bit of confidense and to realize that you do what you really like - and remember, the courage that YOU show is NOTHING compared to the guts of a transsexual woman! So respect her and enjoy the fact that she has chosen YOU as her escort - whether it's just for a date or as her companion.

Being with a trans-girl is special! And it's never seized to fill me with awe and pride. It's the same as being with a cisgendered girl in many ways, ofcourse, but it's still SO beautiful and special... it fills you with warmth and pride in a totally unique way. You feel at HOME finally...

Hmmm... oh well... what more can I say? I better shut up :-)

H

[marlowe]

Originally Posted by hankhavelock

Being with a trans-girl is special! And it's never seized to fill me with awe and pride. It's the same as being with a cisgendered girl in many ways, ofcourse, but it's still SO beautiful and special... it fills you with warmth and pride in a totally unique way. You feel at HOME finally...

Hmmm... oh well... what more can I say? I better shut up :-)

H

We need a new sexual revolution. And just as "The Joy of Sex" carried the 60s to a wider public, so you will have to write and publish "The Joy of Transsex".

Seriously, it's good to read what you have to say, and your enthousiasm is infectious. Keep it coming!

M

[hankhavelock]

Originally Posted by marlowe

We need a new sexual revolution. And just as "The Joy of Sex" carried the 60s to a wider public, so you will have to write and publish "The Joy of Transsex".

Seriously, it's good to read what you have to say, and your enthousiasm is infectious. Keep it coming!

M

I, ofcourse, know, that u'r shitting me a lill bit here in a friendly way, Marlowe ;-)

Well, funnily, my sweet Fey (my First, my Goddess and all that) suggested something similar last weekend as we had out weekly cooking-day. "Honeeey, you really have a unique story to tell - u'r journey has been so interesting for us all... write a book, darling... many people are dreaming to do what you have done..." Yeah right :-)

I have, how ever, seriously been considering to throw myself into a self-financed PhD-study at Honkong University, where Dr. Sam Winther is having a very good program dealing with transgender-studies in Southeast Asia. But time is obviously lacking. I'd LOVE to do a Kinsey-report on transsexuality here in good old Indonesia. I actually already have it lined up :-)

But here I am, just a dumb lill brand-designer with a Master's degree in design and not the needed time :-(

But I admit, that it would be nice.

H

[sesame]

Hank:

considering to throw myself into a self-financed PhD-study at Honkong University, ... on transsexuality here in good old Indonesia

Hank, my man, go right ahead. Your research will be an original piece of work, a study with materials based on your first hand experience. It will not be the usual dry, drowsy sheaf of papers, with little relation to reality. Charge...

The courage that YOU show is NOTHING compared to the guts of a transsexual woman!

That statement is absolutely true. Men, who have achieved great things, who are really macho, even they feel nerous about what other people will think. The Transwomen wage a lifelong war on such concepts. Thats why I admire them so much. (I dont play pocket pool, though! )

[hankhavelock]

Originality I'm certain I'd be able to provide :-) Even something of value for a few wannabees out there who just need a bit of encouragement. Whether I could write something much longer than a forum posting that's bearable English reading is another matter - mind you, English is not my first language, and even though I do write fairly well in Danish, I don't have the elegant vernacular of writers such as you, Marlowe or Bionca.

[Bionca]

That statement is absolutely true. Men, who have achieved great things, who are really macho, even they feel nerous about what other people will think. The Transwomen wage a lifelong war on such concepts. Thats why I admire them so much. (I dont play pocket pool, though! )[/QUOTE]

I don't buy that for a minute!! - hands above the table gents!!!

To be serious, I think this is part of the problem with seriously dating a trans* woman. Partly because guys are scared of what people think, and partly because by the time a TG is "full time" she's been through a little personal slice of hell. I know that I get angry, cranky, upset ... down right pissed when I hear about a friend whose date "isn't comfortable in public with her". I figure she's had to become comfortable in public with herself 24/7, and some guy can't muster the sack to spend a few hours??. It's that fear and the expectations on both sides of the date that make it difficult (at least in the West).

[marlowe]

Originally Posted by hankhavelock

I, ofcourse, know, that u'r shitting me a lill bit here in a friendly way, Marlowe ;-)H

Well I was having some fun with "The Joy of Sex" thing but no, I'm not shitting you H. I meant what I said about your enthusiasm. And that's the point; your enthusiasm, and passion, and your experience will carry you a long way if you want to try and write something. It helps a lot if someone has something to say and believes in it. Your English is fine and you can always find someone to proof read and help with the fine tuning of language.
Like you say time is a big issue, I think it takes a lot of time and commitment to write something substantial. The Phd at Honkkong sounds a really interesting idea so I hope if it's what you want to do you can find a way to make it work.

[hankhavelock]

Originally Posted by marlowe

Well I was having some fun with "The Joy of Sex" thing but no, I'm not shitting you H. I meant what I said about your enthusiasm. And that's the point; your enthusiasm, and passion, and your experience will carry you a long way if you want to try and write something. It helps a lot if someone has something to say and believes in it. Your English is fine and you can always find someone to proof read and help with the fine tuning of language.
Like you say time is a big issue, I think it takes a lot of time and commitment to write something substantial. The Phd at Honkkong sounds a really interesting idea so I hope if it's what you want to do you can find a way to make it work.

Well, thank you again :-) Hmmm, I do admit that I feel I have a lot to say and tell about this my absolute favourite topic... I used to be quite active on a Danish forum as well. I was interesting to learn about trans-life in my old country - VERY different from here, I'd say.

What I appreciated about this here forum from the beginning, how ever, was the good-natured tone and what seemed to be a healthy interest in debating matters in a constructive way. And blissfully free of flaming and blaming. I also find it important that we're both girls and guys here sharing thoughts, wishes and experiences.

A PhD is currently not possible for me - simply because of the time such a project requires. When I said Kinsey-style study I was actually not kidding. And it would do a lot of good here to cast light on transsexual existense in this amazing land. It would, how ever, demand for not only a full time approach but also for substantial amounts of money as I would not be able to conduct all the necessary interviews myself - in other words, I'd have to hire and train assistants to actually go out there in the field and do the interviews. This is not per se impossible - I'm fairly well connected in the LGBT-community here, but it's just not realistic for me right now. Of course, I could (and probably would) limit my initial approach to the Jakarta area - a cute lill town of 23 mill. ppl :-) but it'd still be somewhat of a task...

Hmmm... but a little book? That does seem more manageable right now. And with a wee help from my friends... ;-)

Let's say I'll throw myself into it. What narrative concept would you then suggest? I can immediately say that my goal with such a publication (in which ever form it would have) would be exactly the same as here: via my own example to try to make the good folks realize that it is indeed possible to follow your heart and reap the fruits - that there really IS no reason to be afraid. It would also be a combination of illustrative examples and my own evolved "pocket-philosophies" which are obviously 100% empiric and not in any ways based on anything scientific.

I can also say that even though there would be some mildly juicy parts, then the sexual part of it would be very minor (just enuff to make the "dry stuff" go down as well :-)) Remember, that writing at a forum like this, where I'm among friends, is a totally different story than going public like that - and the last thing I'd want would be to enhance the lay-ppl's biases that we're a bunch of oversexed freaks :-) So the emotional content - which is btw also 1000 times more important to me than the sexual one - I can't BELIEVE I'm writing this...:-) - would be the focus.

What do you think?

H