Do You Guys Really Care???

[GroobyKrissy]

Originally Posted by hankhavelock

Whether I've ever enjoyed porn or been with prostitutes is completely beside the point. And what good I've done to the trans*community is equally irrelevant.

YOU were the one who claimed that by PAYING for your trans*porn ppl would HELP the trans*community.

Read back at what I said and try to grasp the deeper meaning - calling me "the WORST hypocrite" is cute and, obviously, unintelligent, because you know Ï ain't. But you fight for your opinion...

I care, and you don't give a shit...

Hank

It's hard to get a 'deeper meaning' in something as shallow as a petri dish.

It's pretty obvious to me that you see yourself as some 'knight in shining' armor to the TS community. I think any reasonable observer would say you're a complete hypocrite with your admitted usage of prostitutes (which MANY would argue is one of, if not the WORST kind of degradation you can put a person through - [not my personal belief]) (you brought this up, I was going to leave it out) and porn.

It's also obvious that you're unable to have an intelligent and reasonable conversation and I will not be dragged into the name calling and general rudeness you've shown me. Therefore, consider this my last post in response to your posts.

If anyone else has anything to say on the matter, I'll gladly respond, but enough with this completely 'out of touch' conversation.

[hankhavelock]

So apparently I'm shallow as a dinner dish and the worst hypocrite of all because I don't fall over in awe of your "humanistic" and "just buy my porn-stuff" approach to all this... you're too unreal...

[charlietwobeans]

OK, I just don't get it, so I will make one attempt to seek clarity:

Hank - I don't disagree with your premise if it comes with the qualifier of "exploitive porn producers", but Krissy's main point here was "please don't screw those of us who are making a living on our own, independent of producers, by stealing or illegally posting our stuff".

Transgendered or GG, porn or music, there is a fundamental difference between the big-business labels and the independent artists - their work covers every aspect of the industry, from production to marketing. They are not "just the talent", they are the engine and the brains behind the product.

And Krissy's post came in direct response to what a lot of us had posted - skip paying for the material and just find it on free sites.

While I don't advocate stealing licensed material, I also do little to stop it (shame on me). But by Krissy making this plea, she's put a more human face on the theft because she is directly affected by this - not just her bottom line, but her bottom (and other things)

So I support her in her request to "not get screwed" through theft of licensed material....why is that so hard to get behind?

Maybe she used phraseology that doesn't quite fit the bill, but it didn't send me (or, it seems anyone else but you) spiraling into a fit of rage.

That's all I've got. I hope I haven't fueled the fire - not my intent.

Cheers.

[hankhavelock]

Originally Posted by charlietwobeans

OK, I just don't get it, so I will make one attempt to seek clarity:

Hank - I don't disagree with your premise if it comes with the qualifier of "exploitive porn producers", but Krissy's main point here was "please don't screw those of us who are making a living on our own, independent of producers, by stealing or illegally posting our stuff".

Transgendered or GG, porn or music, there is a fundamental difference between the big-business labels and the independent artists - their work covers every aspect of the industry, from production to marketing. They are not "just the talent", they are the engine and the brains behind the product.

And Krissy's post came in direct response to what a lot of us had posted - skip paying for the material and just find it on free sites.

While I don't advocate stealing licensed material, I also do little to stop it (shame on me). But by Krissy making this plea, she's put a more human face on the theft because she is directly affected by this - not just her bottom line, but her bottom (and other things)

So I support her in her request to "not get screwed" through theft of licensed material....why is that so hard to get behind?

Maybe she used phraseology that doesn't quite fit the bill, but it didn't send me (or, it seems anyone else but you) spiraling into a fit of rage.

That's all I've got. I hope I haven't fueled the fire - not my intent.

Cheers.

No fires fueled that haven't already almost died out :-) I'm not on a crusade against the porn-industry here. What I'm after is a false claim that it helps trans*women if ppl pay for their porn stuff. That's a false statement.

Surely, piracy is no good, but it's already been stated way up above that the ladies get a once-and-for all payment, and that's it. So piracy hurts the continouos flow of income to the porn-mob. And that has little to do with transsexuality and a genuine care for the ladies' continouos well-being

HYPOCRACY large economy size!

Piracy hurts anyone why markets easily digitally copied products - myself included.

Furthermore, the negative brand-value that transsexuality as a whole gains from porn is immensely large. It cannot be measured in marketing dollars but it can be measured in lost souls... the highest suicide rate among any group, alienation etc. Nasty stuff. And I can assure you that the porn-industry doesn't give a rat's ass about that.

Transsexuals are FREAKS... in the eyes of the whole world including America :-) Weirdos with a woman's mind and a man's body... sad fucks who everybody understands are just pathetic and ugly creatures with no real right to say anything... except ofcourse moaning on command in sleazy videos when they have to endure being screwed by ugly guys...

So I'm sorry, my points hold water, and under no circumstances will I accept the argument that if we buy the movies, everybody will be happy.

And that point has conveniently been left out of the debate - and when I brought it up I was unsurprisingly being accused of being shallow and hypocritical...

I rest my case... make you own judgement.

Hank

[GroobyKrissy]

Originally Posted by hankhavelock

So I'm sorry, my points hold water, and under no circumstances will I accept the argument that if we buy the movies, everybody will be happy.

And that point has conveniently been left out of the debate - and when I brought it up I was unsurprisingly being accused of being shallow and hypocritical...

I rest my case... make you own judgement.

So, here I find myself answering you again.

PLEASE... tell me WHERE I said that if you 'buy the movies, everybody will be happy.' ?? I have never stated such a thing or implied that the porn industry is a bed of roses.

And, I'm pretty sure that I've answered you points (the few there besides the namecalling). You on the other hand have not answered a SINGLE point I asked except to call it irrelevant.

I do not need to drag out a dictionary to state that you're being hypocritical in saying you care so much about the TS Community and yet you support the very industry that you're so adamantly opposed to. Let's see...

HANK - HATES the 'damage' that the Porn Industry does to the souls of the models they hire.

HANK - Admittedly uses porn and hires TS prostitutes... probably perpetuating a lifestyle for those whom he hires.

YEP... sounds like hypocrisy to me.

You obviously have some issues with your own sexuality and are alleviating your conscience by displacing your own feelings of guilt on the industry, which you think makes you stand out as a bright beacon in a seedy world. FAIL.

I won't speak for other companies but I don't think it's out of place to say that Grooby Productions has probably donated more time, energy, and dollars in ONE MONTH towards promoting TS rights awareness via blogs, ts message boards, and supporting models who CHOOSE to stay in the industry, than you have in your lifetime.

What's the last letter you wrote to your Congressmen / women about TS rights? I've written five in the last month regarding local issues here in PDX and in Oregon. What are you doing in Indonesia to raise human rights awareness, besides hiring prostitutes (cheap blow I know)?

SO... it is NOT at all irrelevant to ask you HOW you're helping the TS Community that you SEEM to care so much about? How many of those damaged souls are you repairing? How much time and energy are you devoting to making sure those prostitutes you hire are making good life decisions and getting out of a self-perpetuating cycle? Cause if you're doing NOTHING, except railing away on message boards (as I suspect), then you ARE a hypocrite. And by portraying yourself as something otherwise IS shallow.

OK, I tire of arguing with you. This is my final post on the matter in response to you. Others, I'll respond accordingly.

[charlietwobeans]

Originally Posted by GroobyKrissy

...then you ARE a hypocrite....

thank you for spelling it correctly - that had been bothering me for some time but I felt I would be too pedantic to point it out

[ila]

Originally Posted by charlietwobeans

thank you for spelling it correctly - that had been bothering me for some time but I felt I would be too pedantic to point it out

I can understand and accept spelling mistakes from those whose mother tongue is not English (even though hypocrite has its roots in Greek).

[GroobyKrissy]

Originally Posted by charlietwobeans

thank you for spelling it correctly - that had been bothering me for some time but I felt I would be too pedantic to point it out

LOL... yeah, I had a tough English/Latin teacher in school. At times I get lazy but for the most part, I try to have good spelling and grammar. So, you're welcome

[Jenae LaTorque]

....be okay with that. I considered that scenario when I posted them. And no, wouldn't bother me a bit. Actually that is not a good compaison as the basic materials I used are already on the net; I just gussied them up and formulated them in a format that was more enjoyable to look at. That is not the same as if someone took my avator and profile pics and used them as adverts for an escort service which is more akin to your problem. The question then should be if this would bother me. Yes, but not unduly as the same holds true there alos. That is just me gussied up and presented in a more enjoyable format, I think LOL

I believe I do understand your case but I really do believe that it does come with the territory, and while you have every right to fight it, I don't have a lot of sympathy for your plight.

I don't think you really caught the nuances of the fishes and loaves analogy. Let's recapture what happened.

Your case. Someone had to pay in the beginning to get the video off of your site did they not? They then multiplied it by making it availible to others with no compensation to you the originator,

Biblical case. Someone had to pay for the origianal loaves and fishes did they not? They then were multiplied and distributed with no compensation to the baker and fisherman who produced the originals.

Can you see where there is little differance between the two scenarios?

[GroobyKrissy]

Originally Posted by Jenae LaTorque

Biblical case. Someone had to pay for the origianal loaves and fishes did they not? They then were multiplied and distributed with no compensation to the baker and fisherman who produced the originals.

Can you see where there is little differance between the two scenarios?

HUGE DIFFERENCE in your allegory. The purchasing of goods (i.e. - loaves and fishes here) is an infinite purchase. That is, the buyor is assuming OWNERSHIP. In the example of DIGITAL MEDIA for a website, AT NO TIME does the purchase of a membership entitle the person TO OWN the media. That is CLEARLY stated in all TERMS and CONDITIONS that I've ever come across. Membership to a paysite allows the user to VIEW and DOWNLOAD the content NOT to distribute it.

I'm a little surprised that I even have to explain that as the difference in your loaves and fishes allegory.

You cannot compare the purchase of a consumable item with an intangible item with intellectual copyright laws protecting it. It is a poor allegory and will break down at the point I'm pointing out.

And, I do think you would mind someone taking your creative endeavors and making money off of it without crediting or compensating you, as much as you say you wouldn't. Obviously, I'm not going to do that, so there's no way to prove my case, but I think if you saw a website pop up with all your works displayed on it and no credit to you at all, I think you'd be emailing the owner. The very fact that you include the thread in your signature and post about it, is enough to show at the very least, you'd like some recognition for your work.

[hankhavelock]

Originally Posted by GroobyKrissy

So, here I find myself answering you again.

PLEASE... tell me WHERE I said that if you 'buy the movies, everybody will be happy.' ?? I have never stated such a thing or implied that the porn industry is a bed of roses.

And, I'm pretty sure that I've answered you points (the few there besides the namecalling). You on the other hand have not answered a SINGLE point I asked except to call it irrelevant.

I do not need to drag out a dictionary to state that you're being hypocritical in saying you care so much about the TS Community and yet you support the very industry that you're so adamantly opposed to. Let's see...

HANK - HATES the 'damage' that the Porn Industry does to the souls of the models they hire.

HANK - Admittedly uses porn and hires TS prostitutes... probably perpetuating a lifestyle for those whom he hires.

YEP... sounds like hypocrisy to me.

You obviously have some issues with your own sexuality and are alleviating your conscience by displacing your own feelings of guilt on the industry, which you think makes you stand out as a bright beacon in a seedy world. FAIL.

I won't speak for other companies but I don't think it's out of place to say that Grooby Productions has probably donated more time, energy, and dollars in ONE MONTH towards promoting TS rights awareness via blogs, ts message boards, and supporting models who CHOOSE to stay in the industry, than you have in your lifetime.

What's the last letter you wrote to your Congressmen / women about TS rights? I've written five in the last month regarding local issues here in PDX and in Oregon. What are you doing in Indonesia to raise human rights awareness, besides hiring prostitutes (cheap blow I know)?

SO... it is NOT at all irrelevant to ask you HOW you're helping the TS Community that you SEEM to care so much about? How many of those damaged souls are you repairing? How much time and energy are you devoting to making sure those prostitutes you hire are making good life decisions and getting out of a self-perpetuating cycle? Cause if you're doing NOTHING, except railing away on message boards (as I suspect), then you ARE a hypocrite. And by portraying yourself as something otherwise IS shallow.

OK, I tire of arguing with you. This is my final post on the matter in response to you. Others, I'll respond accordingly.

Krissy, I already rested my case, and you and I will never be able to agree on these matters. So I will not comment on your current post here.

If you feel that I went after you personally, then I do apologize - it was your concept and not your person I was after.

I'm sure you're a nice person and that we under different circumstances could have been good friends.

So be it.

Peace!

Hank

[Mandy]

Piracy results in an overall depression of wages and earnings for models, since the producers will try and maintain their profit margins at all costs. This ends up shutting down projects run by Trans women and sending models to a handful of companies that are big enough that they can continue operating regardless of piracy. Arguably, since it is admitted that TS rely to a heavy extent on the sex trade for basic survival, this is bad for the TS community. Whats more, because there are so few companies that are big enough to earn a profit TS are forced to work without much bargaining power regarding wages.