Do You Guys Really Care???

[GroobyKrissy]

Originally Posted by hankhavelock

Please... it's like "if you love kids, then become a pedophile."

I dislike when threads drag on and on for pages but this deserves a response.

This is, quite simply one of the most ignorant and illogical statements I have EVER heard and shows that you have no basic grasp of reality. I think it's clear to ANYONE who reads a statement like that why it's just wrong that I'm not even going to dignify it with a response. Hank, you need help if that is the way you look at life.

So... STILL waiting to hear from you about what YOU do to help the TS community? Funny you should be here on a largely PORN centered board with these strong anti-porn statements. And, please... let's talk hypocrisy. Here you're railing against the industry... can you honestly tell me that you've NEVER looked at one single picture or one single movie from one of these sites you're going off about? If you're intentions here are so 'lily white,' then why haven't you answered the basic question of WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO HELP THE TS COMMUNITY?

Please... your grasp of reality and lack of logic astounds me. You are the WORST kind of hypocrite... the kind that doesn't even know he is one.

[hankhavelock]

Originally Posted by GroobyKrissy

I dislike when threads drag on and on for pages but this deserves a response.

This is, quite simply one of the most ignorant and illogical statements I have EVER heard and shows that you have no basic grasp of reality. I think it's clear to ANYONE who reads a statement like that why it's just wrong that I'm not even going to dignify it with a response. Hank, you need help if that is the way you look at life.

So... STILL waiting to hear from you about what YOU do to help the TS community? Funny you should be here on a largely PORN centered board with these strong anti-porn statements. And, please... let's talk hypocrisy. Here you're railing against the industry... can you honestly tell me that you've NEVER looked at one single picture or one single movie from one of these sites you're going off about? If you're intentions here are so 'lily white,' then why haven't you answered the basic question of WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO HELP THE TS COMMUNITY?

Please... your grasp of reality and lack of logic astounds me. You are the WORST kind of hypocrite... the kind that doesn't even know he is one.

Whether I've ever enjoyed porn or been with prostitutes is completely beside the point. And what good I've done to the trans*community is equally irrelevant.

YOU were the one who claimed that by PAYING for your trans*porn ppl would HELP the trans*community.

Read back at what I said and try to grasp the deeper meaning - calling me "the WORST hypocrite" is cute and, obviously, unintelligent, because you know Ï ain't. But you fight for your opinion...

I care, and you don't give a shit...

Hank

[GroobyKrissy]

Originally Posted by hankhavelock

Whether I've ever enjoyed porn or been with prostitutes is completely beside the point. And what good I've done to the trans*community is equally irrelevant.

YOU were the one who claimed that by PAYING for your trans*porn ppl would HELP the trans*community.

Read back at what I said and try to grasp the deeper meaning - calling me "the WORST hypocrite" is cute and, obviously, unintelligent, because you know Ï ain't. But you fight for your opinion...

I care, and you don't give a shit...

Hank

It's hard to get a 'deeper meaning' in something as shallow as a petri dish.

It's pretty obvious to me that you see yourself as some 'knight in shining' armor to the TS community. I think any reasonable observer would say you're a complete hypocrite with your admitted usage of prostitutes (which MANY would argue is one of, if not the WORST kind of degradation you can put a person through - [not my personal belief]) (you brought this up, I was going to leave it out) and porn.

It's also obvious that you're unable to have an intelligent and reasonable conversation and I will not be dragged into the name calling and general rudeness you've shown me. Therefore, consider this my last post in response to your posts.

If anyone else has anything to say on the matter, I'll gladly respond, but enough with this completely 'out of touch' conversation.

[hankhavelock]

So apparently I'm shallow as a dinner dish and the worst hypocrite of all because I don't fall over in awe of your "humanistic" and "just buy my porn-stuff" approach to all this... you're too unreal...

[charlietwobeans]

OK, I just don't get it, so I will make one attempt to seek clarity:

Hank - I don't disagree with your premise if it comes with the qualifier of "exploitive porn producers", but Krissy's main point here was "please don't screw those of us who are making a living on our own, independent of producers, by stealing or illegally posting our stuff".

Transgendered or GG, porn or music, there is a fundamental difference between the big-business labels and the independent artists - their work covers every aspect of the industry, from production to marketing. They are not "just the talent", they are the engine and the brains behind the product.

And Krissy's post came in direct response to what a lot of us had posted - skip paying for the material and just find it on free sites.

While I don't advocate stealing licensed material, I also do little to stop it (shame on me). But by Krissy making this plea, she's put a more human face on the theft because she is directly affected by this - not just her bottom line, but her bottom (and other things)

So I support her in her request to "not get screwed" through theft of licensed material....why is that so hard to get behind?

Maybe she used phraseology that doesn't quite fit the bill, but it didn't send me (or, it seems anyone else but you) spiraling into a fit of rage.

That's all I've got. I hope I haven't fueled the fire - not my intent.

Cheers.

[hankhavelock]

Originally Posted by charlietwobeans

OK, I just don't get it, so I will make one attempt to seek clarity:

Hank - I don't disagree with your premise if it comes with the qualifier of "exploitive porn producers", but Krissy's main point here was "please don't screw those of us who are making a living on our own, independent of producers, by stealing or illegally posting our stuff".

Transgendered or GG, porn or music, there is a fundamental difference between the big-business labels and the independent artists - their work covers every aspect of the industry, from production to marketing. They are not "just the talent", they are the engine and the brains behind the product.

And Krissy's post came in direct response to what a lot of us had posted - skip paying for the material and just find it on free sites.

While I don't advocate stealing licensed material, I also do little to stop it (shame on me). But by Krissy making this plea, she's put a more human face on the theft because she is directly affected by this - not just her bottom line, but her bottom (and other things)

So I support her in her request to "not get screwed" through theft of licensed material....why is that so hard to get behind?

Maybe she used phraseology that doesn't quite fit the bill, but it didn't send me (or, it seems anyone else but you) spiraling into a fit of rage.

That's all I've got. I hope I haven't fueled the fire - not my intent.

Cheers.

No fires fueled that haven't already almost died out :-) I'm not on a crusade against the porn-industry here. What I'm after is a false claim that it helps trans*women if ppl pay for their porn stuff. That's a false statement.

Surely, piracy is no good, but it's already been stated way up above that the ladies get a once-and-for all payment, and that's it. So piracy hurts the continouos flow of income to the porn-mob. And that has little to do with transsexuality and a genuine care for the ladies' continouos well-being

HYPOCRACY large economy size!

Piracy hurts anyone why markets easily digitally copied products - myself included.

Furthermore, the negative brand-value that transsexuality as a whole gains from porn is immensely large. It cannot be measured in marketing dollars but it can be measured in lost souls... the highest suicide rate among any group, alienation etc. Nasty stuff. And I can assure you that the porn-industry doesn't give a rat's ass about that.

Transsexuals are FREAKS... in the eyes of the whole world including America :-) Weirdos with a woman's mind and a man's body... sad fucks who everybody understands are just pathetic and ugly creatures with no real right to say anything... except ofcourse moaning on command in sleazy videos when they have to endure being screwed by ugly guys...

So I'm sorry, my points hold water, and under no circumstances will I accept the argument that if we buy the movies, everybody will be happy.

And that point has conveniently been left out of the debate - and when I brought it up I was unsurprisingly being accused of being shallow and hypocritical...

I rest my case... make you own judgement.

Hank

[GroobyKrissy]

Originally Posted by hankhavelock

So I'm sorry, my points hold water, and under no circumstances will I accept the argument that if we buy the movies, everybody will be happy.

And that point has conveniently been left out of the debate - and when I brought it up I was unsurprisingly being accused of being shallow and hypocritical...

I rest my case... make you own judgement.

So, here I find myself answering you again.

PLEASE... tell me WHERE I said that if you 'buy the movies, everybody will be happy.' ?? I have never stated such a thing or implied that the porn industry is a bed of roses.

And, I'm pretty sure that I've answered you points (the few there besides the namecalling). You on the other hand have not answered a SINGLE point I asked except to call it irrelevant.

I do not need to drag out a dictionary to state that you're being hypocritical in saying you care so much about the TS Community and yet you support the very industry that you're so adamantly opposed to. Let's see...

HANK - HATES the 'damage' that the Porn Industry does to the souls of the models they hire.

HANK - Admittedly uses porn and hires TS prostitutes... probably perpetuating a lifestyle for those whom he hires.

YEP... sounds like hypocrisy to me.

You obviously have some issues with your own sexuality and are alleviating your conscience by displacing your own feelings of guilt on the industry, which you think makes you stand out as a bright beacon in a seedy world. FAIL.

I won't speak for other companies but I don't think it's out of place to say that Grooby Productions has probably donated more time, energy, and dollars in ONE MONTH towards promoting TS rights awareness via blogs, ts message boards, and supporting models who CHOOSE to stay in the industry, than you have in your lifetime.

What's the last letter you wrote to your Congressmen / women about TS rights? I've written five in the last month regarding local issues here in PDX and in Oregon. What are you doing in Indonesia to raise human rights awareness, besides hiring prostitutes (cheap blow I know)?

SO... it is NOT at all irrelevant to ask you HOW you're helping the TS Community that you SEEM to care so much about? How many of those damaged souls are you repairing? How much time and energy are you devoting to making sure those prostitutes you hire are making good life decisions and getting out of a self-perpetuating cycle? Cause if you're doing NOTHING, except railing away on message boards (as I suspect), then you ARE a hypocrite. And by portraying yourself as something otherwise IS shallow.

OK, I tire of arguing with you. This is my final post on the matter in response to you. Others, I'll respond accordingly.

[Jenae LaTorque]

Krissy,
While I can sympathize somewhat with your plight, I have to ask: Did you not realize that piracy abounded on the net before you put up your site and bared your throat to the wolves?

While you may deplore the "free" postings of your material, is it not possible that some viewers of those may make their way to your site and join? I do know that free postings of video clips have impelled me to search out the original material for purchase.

While I can't condone piracy of copyrighted material, I can understand the feeling that since the pirated material user wouldn't purchase the material otherwise, then; the seller isn't really out anything. It is not the same as taking the bread from your fellow man's mouth, it is more like the multiplication of the loaves and fishes that a very famous fellow is reputed to have done. Do you suppose the fish sellers and bakers raised (and pardon the expression) "holy hell" about the potential loss of business there? Damn, there is another justification for wrongdoing to be found in the "Book"!
LOL I may have to trap some of my religious friends with that one

Anyway. to get back to the main question as to do I care. Honestly, I would have to say, "No, not much!" If I knew you personally, I might; but I really feel you should expect little sympathy from strangers. From what you have said, you seem to be an intelligent person and should know better. Do I wish you good fortune in overcoming your problems - YES.

Take care honey Jenae

[GroobyKrissy]

Originally Posted by Jenae LaTorque

Krissy,
While I can sympathize somewhat with your plight, I have to ask: Did you not realize that piracy abounded on the net before you put up your site and bared your throat to the wolves?

While you may deplore the "free" postings of your material, is it not possible that some viewers of those may make their way to your site and join? I do know that free postings of video clips have impelled me to search out the original material for purchase.

While I can't condone piracy of copyrighted material, I can understand the feeling that since the pirated material user wouldn't purchase the material otherwise, then; the seller isn't really out anything. It is not the same as taking the bread from your fellow man's mouth, it is more like the multiplication of the loaves and fishes that a very famous fellow is reputed to have done. Do you suppose the fish sellers and bakers raised (and pardon the expression) "holy hell" about the potential loss of business there? Damn, there is another justification for wrongdoing to be found in the "Book"!
LOL I may have to trap some of my religious friends with that one

Anyway. to get back to the main question as to do I care. Honestly, I would have to say, "No, not much!" If I knew you personally, I might; but I really feel you should expect little sympathy from strangers. From what you have said, you seem to be an intelligent person and should know better. Do I wish you good fortune in overcoming your problems - YES.

Take care honey Jenae

Jenae,

Yes, of course I know that piracy has existed ever since the very first floppy disk rolled of the manufacturing floor. I don't think anywhere will you find me whining and sniveling and saying, 'Poor me.' As any brick and mortar business will tell you, typically, shrinkage is budgeted into the costs of doing business. This is the same with sites that do digital media. I understand business. I've worked as the OM for a fairly well known technology firm for several years before 'striking out on my own.'

There is a HUGE difference between the posting of VIDEO CLIPS (i.e. - usually kept to under 2 minutes) and A WHOLE VIDEO (piracy). Typically, most large websites make video clips available to people who would like to promote their content in an attempt to make money (i.e. - affiliates). That is basically, free advertising for the company and that's a good thing. Normally speaking, these clips are edited to cut out right before the juicy bits... TRAILERS, as it were. And, yes, it is the hope that those people who see these clips will find the origin and join the site (usually, links are provided straight to the site so no 'searching' is necessary).

Now... if a WHOLE VIDEO is posted, and especially on a repeated basis like many of these 'free' sites, OBVIOUSLY, the person is not going to bother joining the site.

So, the statement you made... about the 'seller isn't really out anything.' That is just plain not true. Like I stated earlier, the problem with digital theft is that is it continuous and ongoing. That is why the record moguls try to put high price tags on the cases they decide to prosecute. You cannot prove, and to be fair, disprove how many people would or would not have bought the cd or dvd after downloading a pirated copy... although, reason would stand to suggest that not many would.

Your allegory of the loaves and fishes is way out of context and really not appropriate at all. In that story (sorry for those who take offense to calling it a 'story' but for lack of a better word), the original loaves and fish were GIVEN FREELY (or purchased... it's been a long time since Sunday school) by the original owner(s). The certain speaker you refer to didn't steal it and then multiply it. Any content I reproduce in a PUBLIC area of my site, I realize is going to end up being distributed somewhere else at some point or another... I'm ok with that... it's why it's there. BUT... content INSIDE a PRIVATE area that people are PAYING to access is clearly intended for the enjoyment of that audience alone. It's stated on every single website out there in their TERMS and CONDITIONS section.

I don't expect sympathy from strangers and never once have I asked for it. Instead, I try to reason with people on a logical basis with facts and personal stories. What I am saying is that this 'devil may care' attitude about people stealing content and reposting it is bad for the industry. Your nonchalant attitude is the very thing which I'm appealing to change not because I want your sympathy but because I want and should get your dollars if you want my content.

If I created a website and called it 'Shemale Wallpapers' took all the content you had created and posted here in your 5 star thread, hid behind some anonymous server somewhere, and claimed credit for it... you'd be ok with that? I think not. It's easy to not care (as I did when I started using Napster) when it doesn't affect you... when it does, you'll come around to seeing business from the owner's perspectives.