Barack Obama

[randolph]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Huh?? Between this package and the bail out package as well as our usual budget overruns, we will be borrowing 2.5 trillion dollars this coming year. You can't just magically print it. Maybe that's why democrats are falling for this BS. They think Obama will just pull the money out of his ass. He'll probably lower taxes on the lower income. Maybe even mid-income. But he'll be raising taxes on the rich for sure. You know... the ol tax the people who actually make this economy work, and let the rest leech off it ploy. But everyone who needs a loan (and their children, and their children's children) will be facing tougher times ahead when interest rates go up to pay off this gargantuan debt.

Yes the debt is very scary! However, we had four trillion in debt after WWII and managed to get over, it somehow. We also managed to get over the huge Reagen debt while Clinton was President. It seems our financial system is a gigantic Ponzi scheme, we need to keep pouring money into one end to make it work.

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by randolph

Yes the debt is very scary! However, we had four trillion in debt after WWII and managed to get over, it somehow. We also managed to get over the huge Reagen debt while Clinton was President. It seems our financial system is a gigantic Ponzi scheme, we need to keep pouring money into one end to make it work.

We didn't get to $4 trillion until '92 during the first Gulf War. And at no time has the debt ever gone down. See this chart here. You might be thinking of the budget surplus that Clinton managed by the end of his term.

[randolph]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

We didn't get to $4 trillion until '92 during the first Gulf War. And at no time has the debt ever gone down. See this chart here. You might be thinking of the budget surplus that Clinton managed by the end of his term.

Yes your right. Thanks for the graph.

[CreativeMind]

Originally Posted by randolph

Yes the debt is very scary! However, we had four trillion in debt after WWII and managed to get over, it somehow. We also managed to get over the huge Reagen debt while Clinton was President. It seems our financial system is a gigantic Ponzi scheme, we need to keep pouring money into one end to make it work.

Well, first of all, Tracy already corrected you on the history of debt size.
So, good job there, Tracy!

As for the rest of what you wrote, I just have to say -- no offense -- that this is ALSO the crock of party ideologies and sort of demonstrates (perhaps accidentally and unintentionally) how too many people can get caught up in their party and NOT looking at the ACTUAL problem and how to resolve it best. Case in point, look at what you just said. You wrote (quote): "We also managed to get over the huge Reagan debt while Clinton was President." So, on the surface, you seem to be sneering a bit at Reagan (Republican), blaming him for a huge debt which thankfully Clinton (Democrat) saved us from. Well, Clinton actually didn't, but that's a whole other topic!

Yet all the same, think about this.
WHY did Reagan get elected?

Answer: because all of America hated...I mean just HATED...Jimmy Carter. I mean, seriously, is there anyone here old enough to actually remember the Carter years? Who suffered through them? We had an energy crisis and the price of gas was through the roof -- and that's when you could even find gas, since we also had rationing and gas lines that wrapped around city blocks. In fact, the ties between energy production and tense relations with the Middle East got SO bad that Carter (yes, Jimmy boy) actually had to go on national TV and give a speech declaring that the Persian Gulf was now considered SO vital to the national security of the United States that any attempts by a Middle East country or political faction to try and interfere with the flow of oil to the U.S. would be considered an act of war. To this day I still I remember watching Carter's speech in college with friends, and all of us looking at each other and only half-jokingly saying "So when we all get drafted, which branch do you want to end up in?" Carter's Middle East policies were a disaster --capped off by the historic Iranian hostage situation and the botched rescue mission which was such a clusterfuck that it only further proved how incompetent Carter was.

And then there was the Carter economy, of which there is NO historic dispute: namely, it SUCKED. There was double-digit unemployment AND double-digit inflation. Let me say that again: it was DOUBLE DIGIT which means it was actually WORSE than what we're facing now. To put it mildly, the economy under Carter was in the complete shitter. So with all of that going on, the American people viewed Carter as a total peanut-farmer fuck-up, a simple southern boy that the presidency was above, who simply had to go. So he was booted out of office, leaving the U.S. in some serious economic and foreign woes. Gee, sound familiar? Of course, it gets even better, because here's your lesson in history repeating itself...

When Reagan came to office the first thing he said was we needed to do was cut taxes AND increase government spending. We needed to jump-start the U.S. economy BIG TIME. And he did since here's NO debating what Reagan ultimately did. The Reagan years and his fiscal policies led to one of the GREATEST economic expansions in ALL of American history and the recovery he oversaw -- reversing the dismal Carter era -- was nothing less than startling and miraculous.

Which is why I find it hysterical whenever the Left talks about the "Reagan debt" and sneers about it (as well as usually adding a side note how Clinton saved us all) or goes on about the money Reagan spent to get us out of the Carter recession...

...Yet this is the SAME Left that now is out championing at the top of their lungs savior Obama (oops, I meant President Transparency) and HIS plan to spend a TRILLION DOLLARS doing exactly what Reagan did, only Obama wants to do it on a FAR more mammoth scale.

So, the way I see it, given the Obama stimulus plan, the Left has now officially and 100% lost ALL rights to ever bitch about Reagan or any debt he ran up, since he (or his proportionate debt load) will now not even be in the same league as the toilet Obama is now going to flush us down. Frankly, I think the Obama plan is just overflowing with bullshit political pork, not to mention it's a colossally bad joke that's only going to bite us in the ass and tank the economy more. Case in point, I loved that the other day when Timothy Geitner, the so-called "financial genius" (and tax cheat, which I guess makes him a financial genius) that Obama declared we HAD to have as Treasury Secretary (because he was the ONLY person who could handle this crisis) FINALLY unveiled his ideas for what should be done...

...At which point the stock market tanked another 500 points.

Good job! Can't wait to see what's next!

[randolph]

Poking fun at Republicans can be quite entertaining, they are so wedded to the fantasies of dear old Uncle Miltie. In his old age he admitted he was wrong on a lot of his monetary theories. Why? because he didn't factor the criminal element. So lets see now, how many Republicans were arrested during the Bush administration?

[randolph]

It looks like the Reflublicans are willing to take down the country with their failed party.

Paul Krugman noted today that congressional Republicans, instead of acting "chastened" after electoral and governmental failure, remain committed to "deep voodoo," and arguments that have "bordered on the deranged."

Given all of this, Andrew Sullivan argues that the Republican Party has "declared war" on the president.

Their clear and open intent is to do all they can, however they can, to sabotage the new administration (and the economy to boot). They want failure. Even now. Even after the last eight years. Even in a recession as steeply dangerous as this one. There are legitimate debates to be had; and then there is the cynicism and surrealism of total political war. We now should have even less doubt about what kind of people they are.

Tough stuff, to be sure. The question, I suppose, is what the White House -- and a president who's repeatedly committed to trying to find common ground with the failed minority party -- is going to do about it. If Sullivan is right, and the Republican Party is driven by a combination of partisan schemes and a desire to see Obama fail, how will the administration respond?

Joe Klein argues, persuasively, that the president "should have no illusions about the good faith of his opponents."

Obama should now understand that the Republicans are not reliable partners -- at least, not for the moment. Most are stuck in the contentious past, rutted in Reaganism, intent on taking a Hooverist course on the economy (although there remains cause for optimism on foreign policy). The President's default position, after the stimulus fight and the Gregg fiasco, should be to appoint Democrats to significant domestic policy positions -- the notion of making a public show of bipartisanship, by reaching across the aisle to someone like Senator Gregg, gives the opposition too much credibility and leverage.

[TracyCoxx]

You could have slightly reworded this to talk about the democrats and the Bush administration.

It looks like the Democrats are willing to take down the country with their failed party.

Congressional Democrats, instead of acting "chastened" after electoral and governmental failure, remain committed to conspiracy theories and arguments that have "bordered on the deranged."

Given all of this, the Democrat Party has "declared war" on the president.

Their clear and open intent is to do all they can, however they can, to sabotage the administration (and the economy and war to boot). They want failure. Even now. Even in times as steeply dangerous as this. There are legitimate debates to be had; and then there is the cynicism and surrealism of total political war. We now should have even less doubt about what kind of people they are.

Tough stuff, to be sure. The question, I suppose, is what the White House -- and a president who's repeatedly committed to trying to find common ground with the failed minority party -- is going to do about it. If the Democratic Party is driven by a combination of partisan schemes and a desire to see Bush fail, how will the administration respond?

The president "should have no illusions about the good faith of his opponents."

Bush should now understand that the Democrats are not reliable partners -- and never have been. Most are stuck in the contentious past, rutted in Kennedyism, intent on taking a Carterist course on the economy.

This could have been written in 2004 and would have been very accurate. It's amazing how the democrats have such amnesia over how they have treated Bush over his presidency. And now they expect to govern as if nothing has happened. The democrats have blamed EVERYTHING on Bush - from Clinton's CIA intelligence screwups to the Carter & Clinton financial mess to steering Hurricane Katrina to the poor areas of New Orleans with some classified weather machine. So drop the act. The BS has been so prevalent that you have to have really been paying attention while things happened, or do some serious research to cut through it.

Now you guys want to pass this spendulus package with all the obvious pork it contains. When we're deep into a recession, how can you POSSIBLY justify overspending by $2.5 TRILLION???! Seriously... tell me what a good idea that is.

[randolph]

Today my wife and I had lunch at a local restaurant. My wife went to the restroom and overheard two lesbians badmouthing Obama. As we left the restaurant, they drove off in a new Mercedes sports car. I guess I have more to learn about capitalism.

[hankhavelock]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

You could have slightly reworded this to talk about the democrats and the Bush administration.



This could have been written in 2004 and would have been very accurate. It's amazing how the democrats have such amnesia over how they have treated Bush over his presidency. And now they expect to govern as if nothing has happened. The democrats have blamed EVERYTHING on Bush - from Clinton's CIA intelligence screwups to the Carter & Clinton financial mess to steering Hurricane Katrina to the poor areas of New Orleans with some classified weather machine. So drop the act. The BS has been so prevalent that you have to have really been paying attention while things happened, or do some serious research to cut through it.

Now you guys want to pass this spendulus package with all the obvious pork it contains. When we're deep into a recession, how can you POSSIBLY justify overspending by $2.5 TRILLION???! Seriously... tell me what a good idea that is.

You sit there, with cock out and everything and you and your kind have had eight horrible years to screw up the entire world... which you did! Luckily you're GONE! One can only hope that the reactionary front will for ever be gone.

You and that regime that you voted for has created SO much havoc in this little world, and you still are fucking cocky enough to plead your case? Shame on you, shame on you.

Geo Bush and Dick Cheney were the most incompetent (and most likely corrupt) socalled leadership this world has ever witnessed... and you still salute them? How can you? It's simply beyond me.

But you're beyond reach - a true believer, I guess.

Good riddance.

H

[randolph]

Geo Bush and Dick Cheney were the most incompetent (and most likely corrupt) socalled leadership this world has ever witnessed... and you still salute them? How can you? It's simply beyond me.

Hey Hank, Thanks for the support. It's sadly apparent that Reflublicans will never change. They will be on the street living out of their cars along with the rest of us and they will still blame somebody else. They are incapable of taking any responsibility for their actions. Fuck em!