Barack Obama

randolph · #1 02-03-2009

Creative Mind
No offense, Randolph, but your memory doesn't seem to be serving you well since I tried Googling this in various ways and could NOT find a single instance of Bush Sr. ever saying that.

This popped up with search (bush atheist)
When George Bush was campaigning for the presidency, as incumbent vice president, one of his stops was in Chicago, Illinois, on August 27, 1987. At O'Hare Airport he held a formal outdoor news conference. There Robert I. Sherman, a reporter for the American Atheist news journal, fully accredited by the state of Illinois and by invitation a participating member of the press corps covering the national candidates had the following exchange with then Vice President Bush.

Sherman: What will you do to win the votes of the Americans who are atheists?

Bush: I guess I'm pretty weak in the atheist community. Faith in god is important to me.

Sherman: Surely you recognize the equal citizenship and patriotism of Americans who are atheists?

Bush: No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.

Sherman (somewhat taken aback): Do you support as a sound constitutional principle the separation of state and church?

Bush: Yes, I support the separation of church and state. I'm just not very high on atheists.

Obama is interested in saving this country from the irresponsibility of past administrations. We need to FLUSH RUSH!

randolph · #2 02-03-2009

Last month, Republican Congressional leaders filed into the Oval Office to meet with President George W. Bush and talk about renewing the controversial USA Patriot Act.

Several provisions of the act, passed in the shell shocked period immediately following the 9/11 terrorist attacks, caused enough anger that liberal groups like the American Civil Liberties Union had joined forces with prominent conservatives like Phyllis Schlafly and Bob Barr to oppose renewal.

GOP leaders told Bush that his hardcore push to renew the more onerous provisions of the act could further alienate conservatives still mad at the President from his botched attempt to nominate White House Counsel Harriet Miers to the Supreme Court.

"I don't give a goddamn," Bush retorted. "I'm the President and the Commander-in-Chief. Do it my way."

"Mr. President," one aide in the meeting said. "There is a valid case that the provisions in this law undermine the Constitution."

"Stop throwing the Constitution in my face," Bush screamed back. "It's just a goddamned piece of paper!"

I've talked to three people present for the meeting that day and they all confirm that the President of the United States called the Constitution "a goddamned piece of paper."

So Creativemind, is Bush is your good buddy???

CreativeMind · #3 02-04-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by randolph

"Stop throwing the Constitution in my face," Bush screamed back. "It's just a goddamned piece of paper!"

I've talked to three people present for the meeting that day and they all confirm that the President of the United States called the Constitution "a goddamned piece of paper."

So Creativemind, is Bush is your good buddy???

Actually, this will probably shock you, Randolph (or probably not), but - yes - he is still my "good buddy" because the Constitution IS just a goddamned piece of paper. Well, I take that back since on the surface that sounds rather harsh. Truth be told, I actually consider it to be a blessed piece of paper since I'm religious at heart and I do feel America is God's gift to the world. But all the same, it's still just a piece of paper. Look, here's my personal viewpoint, which is the same basic POINT that Bush was essentially trying to make in his outburst, which you're now trying to demonize or radicalize by taking it out of context...

The Constitution is a legal document, but our Founding Fathers DESIGNED and MEANT for it to be flexible. They DESIGNED and MEANT for it to be altered and amended over time, recognizing that time and history would march on. And even more important, they realized events would change the world around America...they would change the country both without and from within...and thus there would naturally have to be revisions or even all-new interpretations of the Constitution over time. Off the cuff examples: the eventual abolishment of slavery, voting rights for women, etc. The bottom line: the Constitution was NEVER meant to be a document that was SO written in stone that you could NEVER change it or even debate aspects of it.

That's why your anecdote has no weight once you put it into THAT proper context. Because the simple point remains that Bush -- as the sitting President and in the aftermath of 9/11 -- felt that the Patriot Act and it's various tangents needed to be enacted for the security of the country. That was his personal belief and conviction as President, who IS the one person sworn and charged to protect the nation at all costs. As a result, he wasn't going to be swayed from doing what he felt was necessary, which basically makes him the same as all Presidents before him...and, yes, all Presidents yet to come...who will likewise feel that way once they are actually sitting in the Oval Office and feeling the weight and responsibility of protecting the nation upon their shoulders.

Now me -- personally -- that's how I see it. Which is why I agree with Bush's outburst. In fact, again not to shock you, IF I were ever elected President... and IF I were sitting in the Oval Office and there was something that I believed in SO strongly and personally... and IF there was something I felt we absolutely, positively needed to do to ensure the nation's security or prosperity or continuation of particular ideals that I held true to my heart... AND THEN some staffer came up to me and said, "Gee, Mr. President, I'm not sure the Constitution allows for that", I have news for you: I'D SAY THE EXACT SAME THING.

In short, I'd turn to my Chief of Staff and say "Fuck this shit. I'm not listening to this guy. It's a piece of paper that someone is interpreting one way. So, go find me Constitutional scholars and lawyers who see it MY way and let's fight this out in the court until I get my way. Because by all that's holy, I INTEND TO GET MY WAY ON THIS."

Of course, this leads to the far broader discussion that BEING President allows you to pick and appoint Federal Judges...right up to stacking the Supreme Court, if history times itself right while you're the one sitting in the Oval Office...who will see and interpret things "your way" and thus legally allow you to do what you want. But, hey, that's a whole other topic for debate!

TracyCoxx · #4 02-03-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by randolph

Bush: No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.

Lac79 · #5 02-03-2009

meh, Government is always fail, no matter who is in charge. I wish I had my own Island with Areeya and Sheila Ferraz... yes... oh yes... ok, gotta go take care of something now

:D