Ungendering and a Lack of Respect

[Mel Asher]

I am a little disquieted by some of the views expressed in this thread. I count myself as one perhaps of many who have grown to love and respect Transgenders and Transgenderism, and who must, on more than one occasion, in my clumsy attempts to express enthusiasm, or an honest opinion, caused offence by using terms which a number of members might take offence at; offence where innocently none is intended. Often the quickness to take offence is linked to the unhappy personal life experiences of the person offended.

This is a forum for frank and open discussion. Let's be just a little bit careful about loping an Orwellian mentality towards those less informed than oneself.
Education, especially on other peoples' sensitivies, takes time, so beware of becoming ' holier than thou '.

and share

[ila]

Before anyone takes offence at this thread I would like to say that it was not directed at any individual. I started this thread after corresponding with a couple of the ladies on this site and listening to their concerns. At the time there were a lot of disparaging remarks about transwomen.

This thread has nothing to do with being PC nor having a holier than thou attitude. Rather the purpose is to encourage members to be respectful to the ladies that we care about.

[JodieTs]

There is also the circumstance & context of how and where something is said.
I think it's fine on a trans site, to differentiate between:
A female who has a trans background
and
a female who does not.

As to what that term should be, well:, that where the difficulties start.
Let me explain:
Real girl or RG. Well most Ts's will take offence to varying degrees.
Real as opposed to fake or trick
(As in "she had a cock, I had no idea, I was tricked, so that made it ok to kill her" >>>>& the courts nod in agreement & give a minimal sentence )
The girl bit of that phase, suggests not mature enough to think for ourselves or that we should
mindlessly nod and agree with you, all knowing & all wise {like frak!}
Oh, BTW, we are not girls, as we are all old enough to vote.

Genetic girl (or GG) Differentiates us & yes it is technically correct.
{IS persons acknowledged}
It does differentiate us from other women so context in how it is used & by whom [new to trans forums and unknowing about ts etiquette or longer here & should know better]

Natal woman is more acceptable
Trans, even more so
[But not for post-op women, in which case they should always be referred to as women, everywhere, UNLESS THEY THEMSELVES refer to their past {emphasis} history]

It is when a term is used to in some degree belittle us or dehumanise us,
that there is an issue.

Which I'm sure both myself & other ts women here will rightly jump upon.
There is the education aspect as well.
Which can give a greater understanding on how we think & what may be perceived as offensive.
One of my exe's [an 11 year post-op Ts woman] uses the following term in places like here:
Day-one woman>>>>>A woman from the day they were born
&
Not Day-one woman>>>>>A woman at some point after their birth.
Which seems to apply to Post-op, Pre-op & non-op Ts women.

In mainstream life however,
The term: Woman, will suffice.

[oldawg]

As is often the case, & the reason why I usually stay out of these conversations, by the time I'm done reading the entire thread I'm so damn confused as to whos who, whats what & why people are offended that I keep to myself & dont get into it.

However, for me its important to say that in my world, if you consider yourself a girl, then youre a girl. A boy, then a boy. If that bothers you, woman & man will do, no harm, no foul. Any explanation beyond that is or should be between the two people discussing it anyway.

As far as I see it, its all about respect, & ultimately that comes down to the individual (& the couple).

oldawg

That's exactly what I have found. I would think that most of the members here would like my posts--but that doesn't seem to be the case. Or people take things out of context or only read part of a post. And then respond negatively to that. I have tried to be a supportive member of this forum but I have decided that enough is enough--I'm through!

[mightygor]

This is all crazy talk...when we extract the societal presumptions of sexual roles(i.e reproducing vessel vs protective warrior) it all devolves to just plain ol' rubbing. Yes, I am looking at TS images and accept the arousal that transpires. But I would not classify that arousal as anything more than wanting to love and be loved; to run and be rubbed. Aren't we pretty much the same under and outside of our own skin? Establishing the terms with which we dub one another is just part of the foreplay. I'll stop...for now.

[davecess]

The way I see it every individual should be taken on their own merit. I don't see why a T-girl should be afforded any more or less respect than a G-girl.

The thing that seems to be common with most T-girls is that they revel in their feminity and love to be appreciated for it. Some G-girls seem to just take their femininity for granted and either don't want to, or have forgotten how to, express it.