Ungendering and a Lack of Respect

[d332_dot_com]

I myself have used "genetic girl" to differentiate from tgirls. Usually this is used in a context of meditating on some trans community issues.

I do notice many transgirls appending T- CD- TV- to their avatar and handles online. I think this is purely to forewarn other guys of who they are....after having heard so many stories of men who get bent out of shape once they find out what's behind the curtains.

If it was up to me, I would do away with "trans-" and "transgender" altogether. Plain vanilla "girl" is simplicity personified.

As for how insulted guys would feel if someone called them a "she" or a "her" well, in the gay culture, it's quite common to call each other b*tches, girls, and whatnot. And in the mainstream culture, I am increasing seeing girls called each other "guys" and even "dudes." Even a man's man (raised eyebrows) are getting so high maintenance and sensitive these days, I'm shocked nobody has started to call them girls.

I know it's one of those asymmetrical things where girls have more freedom than guys. But I believe language shapes reality and perception. The more people use the standard pronouns interchangeably, (hopefully) there will come a day when people begin to realize that gender is dynamic. Not something written in stone and permanent.

[franalexes]

Originally Posted by d332_dot_com

As for how insulted guys would feel if someone called them a "she" or a "her" well, in the gay culture, it's quite common to call each other b*tches, girls, and whatnot. And in the mainstream culture, I am increasing seeing girls called each other "guys" and even "dudes." Even a man's man (raised eyebrows) are getting so high maintenance and sensitive these days, I'm shocked nobody has started to call them girls.

:

I wonder if we should start a thread to discuss wether Ila, SMC, shadows or even SSL are "real guys".
Don't worry about my idea. I've had my butt kicked before.

[Mel Asher]

I am a little disquieted by some of the views expressed in this thread. I count myself as one perhaps of many who have grown to love and respect Transgenders and Transgenderism, and who must, on more than one occasion, in my clumsy attempts to express enthusiasm, or an honest opinion, caused offence by using terms which a number of members might take offence at; offence where innocently none is intended. Often the quickness to take offence is linked to the unhappy personal life experiences of the person offended.

This is a forum for frank and open discussion. Let's be just a little bit careful about loping an Orwellian mentality towards those less informed than oneself.
Education, especially on other peoples' sensitivies, takes time, so beware of becoming ' holier than thou '.

and share

[ila]

Before anyone takes offence at this thread I would like to say that it was not directed at any individual. I started this thread after corresponding with a couple of the ladies on this site and listening to their concerns. At the time there were a lot of disparaging remarks about transwomen.

This thread has nothing to do with being PC nor having a holier than thou attitude. Rather the purpose is to encourage members to be respectful to the ladies that we care about.

[JodieTs]

There is also the circumstance & context of how and where something is said.
I think it's fine on a trans site, to differentiate between:
A female who has a trans background
and
a female who does not.

As to what that term should be, well:, that where the difficulties start.
Let me explain:
Real girl or RG. Well most Ts's will take offence to varying degrees.
Real as opposed to fake or trick
(As in "she had a cock, I had no idea, I was tricked, so that made it ok to kill her" >>>>& the courts nod in agreement & give a minimal sentence )
The girl bit of that phase, suggests not mature enough to think for ourselves or that we should
mindlessly nod and agree with you, all knowing & all wise {like frak!}
Oh, BTW, we are not girls, as we are all old enough to vote.

Genetic girl (or GG) Differentiates us & yes it is technically correct.
{IS persons acknowledged}
It does differentiate us from other women so context in how it is used & by whom [new to trans forums and unknowing about ts etiquette or longer here & should know better]

Natal woman is more acceptable
Trans, even more so
[But not for post-op women, in which case they should always be referred to as women, everywhere, UNLESS THEY THEMSELVES refer to their past {emphasis} history]

It is when a term is used to in some degree belittle us or dehumanise us,
that there is an issue.

Which I'm sure both myself & other ts women here will rightly jump upon.
There is the education aspect as well.
Which can give a greater understanding on how we think & what may be perceived as offensive.
One of my exe's [an 11 year post-op Ts woman] uses the following term in places like here:
Day-one woman>>>>>A woman from the day they were born
&
Not Day-one woman>>>>>A woman at some point after their birth.
Which seems to apply to Post-op, Pre-op & non-op Ts women.

In mainstream life however,
The term: Woman, will suffice.

[oldawg]

As is often the case, & the reason why I usually stay out of these conversations, by the time I'm done reading the entire thread I'm so damn confused as to whos who, whats what & why people are offended that I keep to myself & dont get into it.

However, for me its important to say that in my world, if you consider yourself a girl, then youre a girl. A boy, then a boy. If that bothers you, woman & man will do, no harm, no foul. Any explanation beyond that is or should be between the two people discussing it anyway.

As far as I see it, its all about respect, & ultimately that comes down to the individual (& the couple).

oldawg

That's exactly what I have found. I would think that most of the members here would like my posts--but that doesn't seem to be the case. Or people take things out of context or only read part of a post. And then respond negatively to that. I have tried to be a supportive member of this forum but I have decided that enough is enough--I'm through!