Posting Of Pay Site Images - All Read.

[violet lightning]

Thanks for answering all my questions seanchai. It all sounds reasonable, and it seems like your really after a few major offenders who don't respect the money and effort that goes into actually producing original material and maintaining websites.

I hope you don't mind a few more thoughts/questions/observations as this seems like a good opportunity to learn more.
Are you a moderator or owner of this site? Is this forum connected in some way to commercial sites, or was it established for members to enjoy and share pics, etc?
Is there a legal precedent for forums like this to exist?

Also, an example of an earlier point: I visited a site earlier today,(juicyshemales.com) that is a freebie-link page, and there were two different sets of Carla Novais from shemaleclub that had 20 pics each. (thats 40 free pics from just two sets on a page with hundreds of free sets--and they change daily!) Multiply that by the hundreds of other freebie pages and your talking thousands of free pics daily. Does releasing so many free photos hurt yours (and others) business much? How do you differentiate between the free pics and the ones that are on the pay-site?
It also seems like the free pics are so good, you would have just as many people being satisfied with those as being tempted to join. (I would assume this is not the case or you wouldn't be doing it)

Does any problem arise when free sites like this begin getting "too good"?
(The content is excellent, traffic goes up, the word gets out and perhaps people start wondering if we are cutting into their business....?)

Are you generally ok with this site and others like it as long as they don't post whole sets or proprietary material?

I won't belabor the point. These are just a few thoughts and questions. As I said, I get where you are coming from, and I believe your concerns are legitimate. I just hope you can solve the problems without becoming too draconian.
I enjoy your sites as well as others, but I enjoy this site very much too.

(Note-in the time it took to compose this, you answered or addressed some of my questions already in other posts, so forgive some of the points)
It sounds like you are ok with this site and members, as long as we follow some basic rules...and that seems reasonable enough to me.
Now you just have to convince everyone else!

[johndowe]

Hi there.

One thing that HAS to be said is that everything that is posted on the internet becomes de facto public domain, so copyrights are a bit of a non issue, if you don't wany your pics to be shared, don't post them on the internet in the first place, free or not, because they will always be someone that will resent having to pay for something and not be "allowed" to do what they want with it, which is the real issue here.

The same is true for software, what is it we realy pay for? The disks, the manuals, the box? No we pay for the software, and since software is data, and easily copyable, why should i have to pay for 3 identicle copies of a piece of software for my 3 computers? I shouldn't, i paid for the software and i should have the "right" to do with it as i please, within reason of course, but again if you don't want others to have your software, don't publish it or accept the FACT that there will be some copy, even if you put all kinds of copy protections, someone ALWAYS finds a way to overide them.


JohnDowe.

[johndowe]

Hi there.

I live in Canada and the gov had pretty heft tax on cigarettes and after a new increase of the cigarette tax the people revolted and a big black market cigarette "market" opened up to the point that the gov lost more revenue due to the black market and removed the new tax, but the dammage was done and the cigarette black market (from native tribes) is still booming not as well as when it was at it's strongest but it is better than it was before the gov put the new (but removed) cogarette tax, so actions often have unforseen concequences.

Remember the OLD lawer addage; don't ask a question you don't already know the ansewer to? The reason is simple in a courtroom, if you ask a question you don't know the ansewer to, you may very well blow your own case out of the water.

The same principle applied to the Germans in WW2 they attacked England to erode their morale, but to the German's dismay, it gave the Allies a new war cry "For England" and the end came several months sooner than expected.

So in trying to protect yourselves and make more money off of the pics and vids on the internet through legislation you may create a backlash that will end up biting you in the ass.

JohnDowe.

[Excaliborg]

Originally Posted by johndowe

Hi there.

I live in Canada and the gov had pretty heft tax on cigarettes and after a new increase of the cigarette tax the people revolted and a big black market cigarette "market" opened up to the point that the gov lost more revenue due to the black market and removed the new tax, but the dammage was done and the cigarette black market (from native tribes) is still booming not as well as when it was at it's strongest but it is better than it was before the gov put the new (but removed) cogarette tax, so actions often have unforseen concequences.

Remember the OLD lawer addage; don't ask a question you don't already know the ansewer to? The reason is simple in a courtroom, if you ask a question you don't know the ansewer to, you may very well blow your own case out of the water.

The same principle applied to the Germans in WW2 they attacked England to erode their morale, but to the German's dismay, it gave the Allies a new war cry "For England" and the end came several months sooner than expected.

So in trying to protect yourselves and make more money off of the pics and vids on the internet through legislation you may create a backlash that will end up biting you in the ass.

JohnDowe.

also knwn as the streisand effect.

now we can bandy words as to who is write and who is wrong. the fact remains that if you dont want more than say five of any given set floatnig about the internet, its your responsibility to ensure that.

reading through the posts again, your request is a fair one. but wouldnt it have been more efficient to first open a dialogue with SSL and the moderators? they could then enforce you request as a rule for content from those sites listed.this way just looks like you are out to get us.

[seanchai]

Originally Posted by Excaliborg

reading through the posts again, your request is a fair one. but wouldnt it have been more efficient to first open a dialogue with SSL and the moderators? they could then enforce you request as a rule for content from those sites listed.this way just looks like you are out to get us.

Been in dialogue with the owner for many months.

[seanchai]

Originally Posted by johndowe

Hi there.

One thing that HAS to be said is that everything that is posted on the internet becomes de facto public domain, so copyrights are a bit of a non issue, if you don't wany your pics to be shared, don't post them on the internet in the first place, free or not, because they will always be someone that will resent having to pay for something and not be "allowed" to do what they want with it, which is the real issue here.

The same is true for software, what is it we realy pay for? The disks, the manuals, the box? No we pay for the software, and since software is data, and easily copyable, why should i have to pay for 3 identicle copies of a piece of software for my 3 computers? I shouldn't, i paid for the software and i should have the "right" to do with it as i please, within reason of course, but again if you don't want others to have your software, don't publish it or accept the FACT that there will be some copy, even if you put all kinds of copy protections, someone ALWAYS finds a way to overide them.


JohnDowe.

Absolute rubbish. Go read the law before you bother posting.

[johndowe]

Originally Posted by seanchai

Absolute rubbish. Go read the law before you bother posting.

Hi there.

I WASN'T TALKING ABOUT THE LAW, I WAS TALKING ABOUT WHAT IS GOING ON, AND HOW THINGS ARE.

GRAB A BRAIN, WILL YA!


JohnDowe.

[seanchai]

Originally Posted by johndowe

HAS to be said is that everything that is posted on the internet becomes de facto public domain, so copyrights are a bit of a non issue

So basically, you just made that up? It has no legal grounds or precedent?

I heard your brain was missing so maybe I'll grab that for a laugh or too.
Arse.

[johndowe]

Originally Posted by seanchai

So basically, you just made that up? It has no legal grounds or precedent?

I heard your brain was missing so maybe I'll grab that for a laugh or too.
Arse.

Hi there.

I see i have used BIG words you do not understand, "de facto" means; in effect, or by default, and i didn't make it up, it is a fact, when you place a file on the internet, that ostrich you posted for example, the person who took it posted it on the internet, then you found it, and you reposted it here, the guy who posted it no longer had ANY control over it is now public domain, if he wanted to delete every copy of it could he? No, because it is no longer his to control, the one in your cpu is now yours, not his anymore, wheather he put it up for pay or free, remember; ownership is 90% of the law.

That is the REALITY of the internet, and no law will change that, not even software, it may make it a bit more complicated but it will not change.


JohnDowe.

[seanchai]

Originally Posted by johndowe

Hi there.

I see i have used BIG words you do not understand, "de facto" means; in effect, or by default, and i didn't make it up, it is a fact, when you place a file on the internet, that ostrich you posted for example, the person who took it posted it on the internet, then you found it, and you reposted it here, the guy who posted it no longer had ANY control over it is now public domain, if he wanted to delete every copy of it could he? No, because it is no longer his to control, the one in your cpu is now yours, not his anymore, wheather he put it up for pay or free, remember; ownership is 90% of the law.

That is the REALITY of the internet, and no law will change that, not even software, it may make it a bit more complicated but it will not change.


JohnDowe.

I understand big words, "de facto" is two small words - and yes this, theory of yours holds no weight.
What a crock of shit, I even stated the ostrich was copyrighted to the original.
Your just an idiot - THAT is the reality.
Unbelievable.

Simple fact is, John. You can't post the content. Take it or leave it.

[GroobyKrissy]

Originally Posted by johndowe

Hi there.

I see i have used BIG words you do not understand, "de facto" means; in effect, or by default, and i didn't make it up...

Was busy over the weekend but nice to come back and see the silliness continues here...

Actually, you did make your definition of 'De Facto' up. It does NOT mean 'in effect' or 'by default' as you postulate. And, before you go shooting your mouth off, I have studied both Latin and law so, yes, I can speak on this matter.

De Facto is a legal term (thus, separating it from the context is, in itself, an improper usage of the term) meaning something that has no legal establishment but is generally accepted as true. The very fact that Copyright laws exist render your argument completely illogical from the start.

To state that any material posted on the Internet becomes De Facto Public Domain and have that statement be true, no other laws concerning the subject would have to exist and it would have to be generally accepted as true that Copyright Laws don't apply to the Internet. Both of these statements are FALSE.

Imagine standing before a judge and saying that you robbing banks is de facto OK because it has been done before. Or, try opening your own brand of Burger King and using their trademark / copyright and telling the judge, 'Well, it's on the Internet so it must be de facto public domain...' Let me know how that works out for you. He would laugh in your face and send you back to law 101. Before you start hurling insults at people and misusing terms you don't fully understand... How's about educating yourself a little more about what you're thinking of speaking about?

[GroobyKrissy]

Originally Posted by johndowe

Hi there.

One thing that HAS to be said is that everything that is posted on the internet becomes de facto public domain, so copyrights are a bit of a non issue, if you don't wany your pics to be shared, don't post them on the internet in the first place, free or not, because they will always be someone that will resent having to pay for something and not be "allowed" to do what they want with it, which is the real issue here.

One thing that HAS to be said in reply to this post is that you do not know what you're talking about. Although this may be your little fantasy world of what YOU consider to be true, a simple precursory look into copyright law proves you wrong.

Seriously... do a little research before you make comments about something you obviously don't know anything about.

[GroobyKrissy]

This reminds me of this old thread that I started...

http://forum.transladyboy.com/showthread.php?t=6026 Take a look at the last post on that thread. Clearly, this kind of post is damaging to the industry and has no place on a 'legitimate' forum such as this [is]. This post should be removed and the person warned against making further posts of this nature and banned if he/she persists.

Hey, I get it... you guys want free porn. It's human nature to want things for free. That doesn't make it right OR legal. The fact of the matter is that in posting mass amounts of ripped content, you don't often realize how you're hurting the models and the sites that provide you the content to 'get your rocks off.'

As an independent producer and a VERY careful keeper of all kinds of statistics and records for my site, I KNOW for a fact, when I see a sharp decline in sales, invariably, I can trace it back to either a forum with rips from my site or pw sharing.

I think Seanchai has done a pretty good job here of defending his stance and hardly needs me to weigh in on the subject but, what really irritates me about some of the responses is the 'justifications' for posting ripped content. Instead of making up illogical (and sometimes just plain stupid) reasons to justify your actions, you should just say, 'I'm selfish and don't want to pay for porn.' OR, 'I want to look important and that's why I post ripped content.' This last one is personally the reason I feel most people post excessive ripped content. They like the replies of gratitude and it helps them think that what they're doing is OK. Just my two cents.

Because, really, why else would you care if you're asked to limit your postings to 3 pictures from one set?

[ila]

Originally Posted by GroobyKrissy

This reminds me of this old thread that I started...

http://forum.transladyboy.com/showthread.php?t=6026 Take a look at the last post on that thread. Clearly, this kind of post is damaging to the industry and has no place on a 'legitimate' forum such as this [is]. This post should be removed and the person warned against making further posts of this nature and banned if he/she persists.

Below is the message that you are referring to.

Originally Posted by Mold

For what purchasing pay sites??? On the NET you can find many shemale tube site, many of them have very nace content. PM me if you interesting.....

Tell me how this this message is damaging to the porn industry. The member stated that there are many tube sites on the internet. He is quite correct in that statement. Poor grammar and spelling aside he asked members to PM him for, I assume, the names of tube sites. There is nothing illegal about that. You might also note that this member has not been back on the site for more two months.

If you feel so strongly that Mold's post should be removed then I suggest that you use the Report Post button in the message box. The instructions that follow will tell you what to do.

[GroobyKrissy]

Originally Posted by ila

Below is the message that you are referring to.



Tell me how this this message is damaging to the porn industry.
If you feel so strongly that Mold's post should be removed then I suggest that you use the Report Post bar beside the message. The instructions that follow will tell you what to do.

Obviously, I didn't care that much since I didn't even know the post was there until I revisited the thread tonight. BUT... Here's your answer... (read my above post first please)

In effect, what this Member is doing would be akin to a person sitting on the front doorstep of a auto dealer and telling people as they walk in, 'Psst... why pay for a car when I know of a place where you can get all the cars you want for free... oh, by the way... there's probably one or two stolen cars mixed in there but who cares.'

I think any reasonable person would call this 'damaging.' Hey, if you want to do the homework to find all the little sites on the web that cater to the free porn people, then by all means, go ahead and do so. By leaving a post like this up in a public place, the Forum is basically 'looking the other way' at letting people post links to places to download stolen content. Stolen content IS bad for the industry. Period. I don't think (at least I hope) I need to go into the book of reasons why that's true...

[ila]

Originally Posted by GroobyKrissy

....Hey, if you want to do the homework to find all the little sites on the web that cater to the free porn people, then by all means, go ahead and do so. By leaving a post like this up in a public place, the Forum is basically 'looking the other way' at letting people post links to places to download stolen content. Stolen content IS bad for the industry. Period. I don't think (at least I hope) I need to go into the book of reasons why that's true...

First of all I have no desire to go out looking for tube sites or free sites. It is a very rare occasion if I even look at a free porn site (except for tlb).

Secondly not all tube sites have stolen content. Some do, but even then not all content is stolen.

Thirdly this site does not tolerate stolen content nor are links to tube sites allowed. It states this in the rules.

[violet lightning]

I just noticed you (seanshai) deleted 3 photos of Meghan Chavalier from one of my posts. (Meghan Chavalier Post in freebies, #5)
Since I got these pics from a legitimate free site, (www.juicyshemales.com) and they are NOT stolen or from a members area, why did you delete them?
I thought you just said 15 pics from the same set were ok with you as long as they were free "marketing" pictures.
What gives? I'm playing by your rules! Is JSM not a legitimate marketing site? Are you saying they stole your content?
Grrrr.

[seanchai]

Originally Posted by violet lightning

I just noticed you (seanshai) deleted 3 photos of Meghan Chavalier from one of my posts. (Meghan Chavalier Post in freebies, #5)
Since I got these pics from a legitimate free site, (www.juicyshemales.com) and they are NOT stolen or from a members area, why did you delete them?
I thought you just said 15 pics from the same set were ok with you as long as they were free "marketing" pictures.
What gives? I'm playing by your rules! Is JSM not a legitimate marketing site? Are you saying they stole your content?
Grrrr.

Will investigate JuicyShemales but as I believe the images were from a new site, Shemale Pornstar, which doesn't have affiliates, no content should have been released.

Frankly, I'm not going to investigate deeply into each and every post, I'm pretty sure I know what content is what but if a few get caught up by mistake, then so be it.

[seanchai]

Originally Posted by violet lightning

Are you a moderator or owner of this site? Is this forum connected in some way to commercial sites, or was it established for members to enjoy and share pics, etc?

Almost all forums or websites have a commercial interest. Sites make money from advertising. That's how they pay the server and related costs. You'd have to ask the owner, why it was set up. I'm not the owner but I do own other forms

Originally Posted by violet lightning

Is there a legal precedent for forums like this to exist?

Don't understand question.

Originally Posted by violet lightning

Also, an example of an earlier point: I visited a site earlier today,(juicyshemales.com) that is a freebie-link page, and there were two different sets of Carla Novais from shemaleclub that had 20 pics each. (thats 40 free pics from just two sets on a page with hundreds of free sets--and they change daily!) Multiply that by the hundreds of other freebie pages and your talking thousands of free pics daily. Does releasing so many free photos hurt yours (and others) business much? How do you differentiate between the free pics and the ones that are on the pay-site?

I don't own Shemale Club. You'd have to ask their own specifically. I don't think releasing that much free content is good business.
I differentiate between our free released pics and pay site pics in that the free ones should be a tease. Other companies may have a different ethos.

Originally Posted by violet lightning

It also seems like the free pics are so good, you would have just as many people being satisfied with those as being tempted to join. (I would assume this is not the case or you wouldn't be doing it)

Agreed, this is why Grooby doesn't give the best content away.

Originally Posted by violet lightning

Does any problem arise when free sites like this begin getting "too good"?
(The content is excellent, traffic goes up, the word gets out and perhaps people start wondering if we are cutting into their business....?)

No, good forums and traffic are what we like. The problem arises when new people on the internet come to sites like this and can get the majority of a set or a link to a stolen video for free. It can easily be found. Then they don't join paysites. We don't make money. We have no money for future shoots ... blah blah blah.

Originally Posted by violet lightning

Are you generally ok with this site and others like it as long as they don't post whole sets or proprietary material?

I love sites like this and have been active on some for years. I hope to become more active on here other than just the complaints about the amount of material posted.


Thanks
seanchai

[violet lightning]

I think we (the reasonable ones) are more or less on board with your (also reasonable) requests, but I still wonder about the Meghan pics you deleted.
Shemalepornstars.com is one of the sites you listed in your first post here, and that is where those pics are from via juicyshemales.com, which (I checked) does have some sort of affiliation with grooby sites.

As I said, I downloaded them from one of YOUR promotional sites, (in good faith) and out of the 15 free pics, I only posted 6.
Are they stolen or used without your permission?? If they were legitimate free pics, I would appreciate them being put back up. They were posted on JSM on Sept. 26.

I completely understand your POV, but from mine its very disconcerting to have a post edited like that, especially (apparently) when all the facts are not in. (stolen content or not??)

Kinda sucks to have to go back and see whats been edited and why. If my posts (which are fairly well thought out) get edited like that, (half the pics removed) I'm not sure I even want to post anymore. Takes the fun out of things. My whole reason for being here is to enjoy sharing, taking part in discussions and just having fun.
I'm not pissed, just somewhat confused....

Post script: Regarding newbies finding this site and then not joining paysites.. As I said, I actively searched the internet for years for photos and only about 8 months ago did I stumble on this site. I assume the same to be true of people like Jenae, who joined fairly recently too, and has also been on the web for years. If its that random, do you really think newbies are coming here in droves? Do you have ANY data to back that assertion?

[seanchai]

Originally Posted by violet lightning

I think we (the reasonable ones) are more or less on board with your (also reasonable) requests, but I still wonder about the Meghan pics you deleted.
Shemalepornstars.com is one of the sites you listed in your first post here, and that is where those pics are from via juicyshemales.com, which (I checked) does have some sort of affiliation with grooby sites.

As I said, I downloaded them from one of YOUR promotional sites, (in good faith) and out of the 15 free pics, I only posted 6.
Are they stolen or used without your permission?? If they were legitimate free pics, I would appreciate them being put back up. They were posted on JSM on Sept. 26.

I completely understand your POV, but from mine its very disconcerting to have a post edited like that, especially (apparently) when all the facts are not in. (stolen content or not??)

Kinda sucks to have to go back and see whats been edited and why. If my posts (which are fairly well thought out) get edited like that, (half the pics removed) I'm not sure I even want to post anymore. Takes the fun out of things. My whole reason for being here is to enjoy sharing, taking part in discussions and just having fun.
I'm not pissed, just somewhat confused....

Post script: Regarding newbies finding this site and then not joining paysites.. As I said, I actively searched the internet for years for photos and only about 8 months ago did I stumble on this site. I assume the same to be true of people like Jenae, who joined fairly recently too, and has also been on the web for years. If its that random, do you really think newbies are coming here in droves? Do you have ANY data to back that assertion?

Violet,
I really think I've posted enough on this and I'm not going to get into tiny details. I told you already I'll look at the site you mentioned.
I think the main points are:

1. Posting of content is not a right, it's a privilege. You don't have to post.

2. The content always remains the rights of a producer and just because it can be seen for free elsewhere, doesn't mean that anybody other than the producer or persons they have given permission, has the right to post it elsewhere.

3. If your posts get caught up in some deletions, then deal with it. I'm not investigating every post. As mentioned above, it's a privilege. Sometimes I don't want my shoots given away at all or certainly, some of the select photos. I reserve the right to have removed any content belonging to us, that I want, regardless of the other rules.

4. ... and once again. You don't have to post images.

[Jenae LaTorque]

I think that Sesame is right. It is time to let this go. He has already demonstrated to me that he is here primarily as a money grubber looking after his own self interest. He has also demonstrated that he isn't very bright and I will be surprised if he survives the increasingly competitive nature of his niche of pornography. He has demonstrated that he has no respect for the forum members, only for them as a possible source of income. His position as a moderator has been only in his own self interest - the numbers show this - his post count of less than 60, is less than 3% of ila's post count. All in all, I believe his statements here have been some very dismal public relations. While I do not subscribe to online pic sites, I do purchase quite a few videos. From now on, I will be on the lookout for Grooby productions and will absolutely never ever purchase one.

[seanchai]

Originally Posted by Jenae LaTorque

I think that Sesame is right. It is time to let this go. He has already demonstrated to me that he is here primarily as a money grubber looking after his own self interest. He has also demonstrated that he isn't very bright and I will be surprised if he survives the increasingly competitive nature of his niche of pornography. He has demonstrated that he has no respect for the forum members, only for them as a possible source of income. His position as a moderator has been only in his own self interest - the numbers show this - his post count of less than 60, is less than 3% of ila's post count. All in all, I believe his statements here have been some very dismal public relations. While I do not subscribe to online pic sites, I do purchase quite a few videos. From now on, I will be on the lookout for Grooby productions and will absolutely never ever purchase one.

Sour grapes or your lack of intelligence to grasp the situation or legalities?
I really don't have to defend my intelligence or my business to you, so I won't bother.
One thing I will say though, is that I'm one of the few adult sites that does engage fans, members, models, producers, etc. and aims to produce quality porn with the models. Our reputation is un-surpassed and what we have done as a company to promote respect to transgenders working in the adult industry, is more than any other person or group.
Go and google a few interviews with me, if you want to understand a little more about me:
"Steven Gallon / seanchai / grooby "

I hope to bring some real things of interest to this forum soon, rather than just picture posting.

The DVD market is almost dead, so if you want to continue for good transgender porn to be produced, then it's going to be via the internet. Only Grooby is producing TS porn with proper themes and stories.
Download and watch LOADS OF FREE TRAILERS - direct from our server at:

http://grooby.com/groobycom_dvd.html

Thanks for your opinion anyway Janae. Since you made the first attacking post on here and displayed your lack of understanding, it was fairly obvious you'd never see our point of view, no matter what.

[ps this image was found on a free site. That doesn't mean I have the right to repost it. The copyright owner can mail me directly and I will remove it immediately.]

[Bionca]

Perhaps it's because interacting with the public via message boards and blogs is my job or maybe I'm just strange. Either way, I feel that Mr Gallon has made a good faith effort to make his position clear while at the same time, actually interacting with the member of this forum in an effort to reach an understanding.

What would Vivid do? Send a letter to SSL and demand that their property be removed with a very real threat of legal action (and precedent would be on their side regardless of the specifics of their product). Copyright law favors the producer/artist.

While I understand why people are feeling defensive and perhaps attacked(?) by this series of posts, I really don't think this site is being singled out or individual members are being accused of being thieves.

Mr Gallon, as far as doing things "to promote respect for transgenders" - umm.. well that may be true - but is more than either nothing or actively harming really a good talking point?

[GroobyKrissy]

Originally Posted by Jenae LaTorque

I think that Sesame is right. It is time to let this go. He has already demonstrated to me that he is here primarily as a money grubber looking after his own self interest. He has also demonstrated that he isn't very bright and I will be surprised if he survives the increasingly competitive nature of his niche of pornography. He has demonstrated that he has no respect for the forum members, only for them as a possible source of income. His position as a moderator has been only in his own self interest - the numbers show this - his post count of less than 60, is less than 3% of ila's post count. All in all, I believe his statements here have been some very dismal public relations. While I do not subscribe to online pic sites, I do purchase quite a few videos. From now on, I will be on the lookout for Grooby productions and will absolutely never ever purchase one.

I cannot believe the sheer lack of facts behind these statements.

If you knew anything at all about the person you're speaking about, you'd know that:

A: Grooby Productions (with him at the helm) is probably THE company when it comes to caring for and furthering the careers of their models... even when they decide to strike out on their own. Although the company is obviously a business, I have personally seen the company make decisions not based on increasing the bottom line but making a decision based on maintaining integrity and honesty in an industry which, quite frankly, is often lacking.

B: While yes, more TS sites come on the market, Grooby Productions has remained on the forefront of producing content in this niche and still has some of the best sites around. Your implication that you know something about the business model or health of the industry as a whole just shows your complete narcissistic tendencies and proclivity to hear yourself speak.

C: Demeaning someone's intelligence and resorting to purposefully calling them names are oftentimes the act of desperation or lack of civility... both which you have shown here. Seriously... does Jenae's post remind anyone of a disgruntled 3rd grader?

D: Ummm... yeah... why should he not see forums like this as a potential source of income with potential customers? I would actually say it would be negligent not to. He does run a BUSINESS after all. So, why is it a bad thing to see Members here as potential customers? You state an IQ of over 150 yet fail to grasp this basic business principle?

E: Position as a Moderator? Completely irrelevant. Nice that you took the time to calculate out the statistics (again... tooting your own intellectual horn), but WTF? I smell sour grapes that he is and you're not.

F: I'm quite sure that the company is not losing any vast amounts of money by you not purchasing their DVD's (which by the way... we call them DVD's in this day and age) since you've "...never contributed a single penny to a paysite directly." I find it difficult to believe, given this mindset that you are the owner of a staggering library of legitimately paid for DVD's.

Anyway... this is a little more sarcastic and a bit on the rude side so for those of you readers not involved, I apologize. Typically, I don't get into personally addressing someone negatively but Jenae's statements are just plain uncalled for, illogical, and completely disrespectful for someone who is VERY WELL respected in the TS Industry. Pretty easy to do a little searching and come to the conclusion that Seanchai's a stand-up guy running one of the most honest, respected, and best business in TS porn.

[Be_my_nude]

I have to say I am, like Jenae, somewhat puzzled as to what the qualifications are for a member to become a Moderator. It would seem no co-incidence that Seanchai got himself appointed Moderator for Freebies. As such I can hardly think he can claim to be impartial ( an absolute pre-requisite, I would have thought ), without vested interests.

One aspect which seems to me curious. It seems that Seanchai is against members of this Forum liberally posting pictures which have already been downladed by paid-up members of any of his listed sites. Surely it is up to him to identify and contact those paid-up members who have made available the sets for free. Clearly their paid for membership makes them feel entitled to do what they want with the pictures. Make no mistake about it, these pictures were not 'stolen ' form the sites in the first place, so how can members of this Forum be accused by Seanchai of handling ' stolen goods '?

I'm also pretty unhappy about the possibility that a Moderator may have abused his powers or position. Perhaps Seanchai might care to comment ?

this does not present a pretty picture at all.