Ask Jenae for real answers - no games.

[Tread]

Originally Posted by Jenae LaTorque

But on the other hand I try to be receptive to the idea that there may be a kernel of truth in old legands, myths, religions, folk remedies, etc.... I do not say "where there is smoke, there is fire." Rather I say "where there is smoke, there may be fire."

Wouldn't this make you more an agnostic, than an atheist?

[randolph]

Science is primarily dealing with quantitative aspects of reality. The ability to measure and collect data are the essence of science. The qualitative aspects of reality are not easily measured. This is the realm of philosophy, myth and religion. How do we measure a dream or a thought? They are real as far as our mind is concerned. The Indian mystics recognized this and spent a lot of time meditating on the mind's relationship to reality. Amazingly, they comprehended many aspects of reality, such as the age of the earth and the big bang thousands of years ago. Without science, how did they do this? The mind is composed of the same elements as the stars, add some energy, billions of years of evolution and viola comprehension becomes part of the universe.

[Jenae LaTorque]

[quote=randolph;101469], they comprehended many aspects of reality, such as the age of the earth and the big bang thousands of years ago. Without science, how did they do this?
____________________________________________

Somebody told them. I refer you to the Library of Halexandria which google will lead you to. Read their version of the history of the world. While I don't think they have all of the answer, I do think that they sound a hell of a lot more credible than the biblical history which any student of history knows is a mishmash of legend, myth, and wishful thinking.

[sesame]

Originally Posted by Jenae LaTorK

But do I believe so? (reincarnation) The answer is NO!
If you want to know why, ask me.

WHY?

Originally Posted by Jenae

eventually would reach a state of Nirvana and beyond.

What is beyond Nirvana?

[sesame]

Originally Posted by randolph

The Indian mystics recognized this and spent a lot of time meditating on the mind's relationship to reality. Amazingly, they comprehended many aspects of reality, such as the age of the earth and the big bang thousands of years ago. Without science, how did they do this? The mind is composed of the same elements as the stars, add some energy, billions of years of evolution and viola comprehension becomes part of the universe.

Good post!

TraiLokye Yani Bhutani,
Tani Sarvani Dehatah.
~Yoga Shastras. (sanskrit)

Meaning: Whatever is contained in the Universe, is already there inside the human body. Whatever happens in the Macrocosm, can be known by knowing the Kundalini trapped inside the Microcosm. The Nine chakras resemble the external Universe.

[randolph]

Originally Posted by sesame

Good post!

TraiLokye Yani Bhutani,
Tani Sarvani Dehatah.
~Yoga Shastras. (sanskrit)

Meaning: Whatever is contained in the Universe, is already there inside the human body. Whatever happens in the Macrocosm, can be known by knowing the Kundalini trapped inside the Microcosm. The Nine chakras resemble the external Universe.

I don't believe in reincarnation, however, as I have mentioned before, the mind goes beyond quantitative science, it is qualitative. Discovering ones kundalini latent energy will confirm this. Transcending the ego and becoming aware of ones inner female energy is "enlightment". She is often called Uma Parvati the inner goddess, the soul. I worship her, she is the ultimate pleasure.

[sesame]

Originally Posted by randolph

I don't believe in reincarnation, however, as I have mentioned before, the mind goes beyond quantitative science, it is qualitative.

What is the mind then, if it can transcend the physical plane?

Discovering ones kundalini latent energy will confirm this. Transcending the ego and becoming aware of ones inner female energy is "enlightment".
She is often called Uma Parvati the inner goddess, the soul. I worship her, she is the ultimate pleasure.

On one hand you admit the inner God /Goddess as the soul; and then you deny the existence of the eternal soul!

Does this Inner Goddess die? Was she ever born out of anything?
If not, you and I are talking about the same thing.
You call it Uma and I call it Soul, someone else calls it God.

The Yoga Sutras say that we are born again and again because of this desire for ephemeral things. When we realise our inner nature, which is complete and eternal, we do not thirst anymore... for we become one with the ultimate source of bliss and peace. That is called Kaivalya or Nirvana.

[randolph]

Originally Posted by sesame

What is the mind then, if it can transcend the physical plane?


On one hand you admit the inner God /Goddess as the soul; and then you deny the existence of the eternal soul!

Does this Inner Goddess die? Was she ever born out of anything?
If not, you and I are talking about the same thing.
You call it Uma and I call it Soul, someone else calls it God.

The Yoga Sutras say that we are born again and again because of this desire for ephemeral things. When we realise our inner nature, which is complete and eternal, we do not thirst anymore... for we become one with the ultimate source of bliss and peace. That is called Kaivalya or Nirvana.

I am not Indian or Hindu so this is difficult for me to conceptualize into words. My inner female spirit/soul is unique to me as I "view" her. When I die this female energy returns to the vast field of female energy in the universe. An analogy might be the Higgs field, which I imagine as female dark energy, which science is unable to "see". Each one of us, while living, has some of that energy within us. That energy is the same in all of us. I relate to mine as Uma. Another adept may relate to it in another way, but always female.
I think the Yoga Sutras are another way of saying that when we transcend our ego, we no longer direct our desires and needs outward. I meditate for two hours every morning. During that time I love the goddess. We play with each other, she takes many forms including transsexual, she is very erotic. I feel that since she is a spirit lacking a "body" she enjoys the sensual pleasures created within my body, my body is hers. The ego strongly resists this relationship. He wants to control all of my thoughts and actions. However, Uma is a lot more fun to be with. After my meditation, my ego returns and the usual daily life returns.
As the Dali Lama once said when asked "what is the meaning of life" he answered, "pleasure".

[sesame]

Randolph,
Did you notice one thing? The Ask me oracle is not answering our queries anymore. We are answering each other. I think thats a degeneration of commitment on her part. Bad Bumblebee! :D

What you are doing in your mind during your vivid meditation is Visualisation of the Tantras. Now, Tantras dont deny the existence of the Soul, but their philosophy is based on the evolution of the Soul to power and freedom. Have you read MahaNirvana Tantra or, Tantra of the Great Liberation? There is a nice version translated by Sir John Woodroffe.

[Jenae LaTorque]

Originally Posted by Tread

Wouldn't this make you more an agnostic, than an atheist?

__________________________________________________ ________________

Def. from The American College Dictionary (applicable parts)

agnostic - one who holds that the ultimate cause (God) and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable or that human knowledge is limited to experiance.

atheist - one who denies or disbelieves the existance of God or gods.

Damn, do I have to pick one.

I am an atheist in the sense that I disbelieve the existance of God(s) as supernatural beings. Having been raised in a primarily Judeo-Christian culture and that history being the one I have studied the most; I have not the slightest belief in the existance of God, Jehovah, YAHWEH, EL-SHADDAI, etc.... As far as I am concerned, the ideas of God promoted by Jews, Muslims, and Christians is fanciful nonsense. Each of these religions would seem to have the God of the patriarch Abraham as their one true god. And yet look at the differances between them. And why would there be any differances if these faiths sprang from the same source. No, it is because these faiths are from the minds of men, and all men's minds are differant and reflect the various influences life has made upon them. Then you have, each faith splintered into so many differant branches; some with so little in common that they may as well be differant faiths. If there was such a god, then he must be a schizophrenic if one was to do a clinical assessment of the evidence of the behavior patterns attributed to him.

I am not an agnostic because I do believe that if the race of mankind survives long enough, we will expand our scope of knowledge to understand the essential nature of things. Look how many things we already understand the cause and effect for that were once things attributed to the gods. We no longer believe the sun is a chariot of fire being pulled across the sky. We know thunder and lightening have nothing to do with Thor, Jupiter or even Susanoo or Chaac. Droughts and plagues are not sent by gods to punish us. People are not possessed by demons, rather they suffer from mental illness. (I would even say they people are not possessed of the Holy Spirit, rather they are suffering a mental aberation.) It is very simple to see why biblical type miracles do not happen anymore (outside of the National Enquirer anyway). Think for a bit about how many things we take for granted as a common occurance would be heralded as a miracle a thousand years ago.

"And the lord NASA did speak to his child NEILA, who had journeyed to the moon in a silvery chariot, and commanded him to return to him, and to convey homeward the rocks he did find there"

FDR said that we have nothing to fear except fear itself. And what is so true for mankind except that we fear most what we don't understand. Ignorance is the prime cause of fear. I don't fear God because I understand. I do fear what paths ignorance and fear may lead us down. I despair of mankind when I see how easily fear-mongering leaders can motivate people to go against the basic tenets of their religious beliefs by using religion to foster hatred against others who are "differant".

Aw hell, I need a break here.