How important is passable/female identity?

Creative, I can always count on you to read my every word unfortunately I cannot return the favor.

You can contact me privately whenever you are ready for our date bring lube.

[Bionca]

There needs to be a clarification I think. To guys who love/date/fuck/admire/jerk-off to Trans*Women so often "Passing" = "pretty".

In my case, as well as most T-Gals I know, hormonal and surgical femiization was/is key to their own self-image and self-esteem. I may wish it was different, but the perceptions of strangers (not to mention friends) matters. Being un-gendered by a clerk at the store who calls you "sir" is a blow, teens at the mall insulting you is a blow, folks laughing as yuo pass them .. you get what I'm saying. The confidance of having something as basic as your gender affirmed unconciously on a daily basis cannot be over stated.

The reality is, most Trans*women can pass, given the means and access to do so. By "pass" I mean they can walk outside in daylight and not get insulted. They aren't porn chick sexy, they look like the average woman they are. So, "passing" is critical for the general well-being of most Trans*women. Being sexually desireable (for me) was way way down on the list.

[smolderingtemptress]

That's exactly right. Genetic women come in all different sizes, shapes, colors, etc. and it's the same with transsexual women as well. I've seen some rather manly looking GGs but no one questions them because it's still obvious that they're women. There's way too much pressure in the TS community to adhere to an (in my opinion) exaggerated ideal of feminine beauty, and I think that can be detrimental for transition. Not only do we need to look like the women we are, but we feel we have to look above and beyond GGs with regards to "beauty".

The admirers are always saying TS are even more feminine/beautiful than GGs... You would hope it's a little bit about the personality as well.

[randolph]

Originally Posted by smolderingtemptress

That's exactly right. Genetic women come in all different sizes, shapes, colors, etc. and it's the same with transsexual women as well. I've seen some rather manly looking GGs but no one questions them because it's still obvious that they're women. There's way too much pressure in the TS community to adhere to an (in my opinion) exaggerated ideal of feminine beauty, and I think that can be detrimental for transition. Not only do we need to look like the women we are, but we feel we have to look above and beyond GGs with regards to "beauty".

The admirers are always saying TS are even more feminine/beautiful than GGs... You would hope it's a little bit about the personality as well.

The other day I was at Starbucks and a "girl" was getting a cup of coffee. She had enlarged breasts, a low cut blouse, a short skirt and high heels. She was obviously a ts. I smiled as I watched her walk past me and she noticed me looking at her. She then made a face at me and stuck out her tongue and strutted off. That's has been my only actual encounter with a ts.

[Limegirl]

Originally Posted by Bionca

There needs to be a clarification I think. To guys who love/date/fuck/admire/jerk-off to Trans*Women so often "Passing" = "pretty".

In my case, as well as most T-Gals I know, hormonal and surgical femiization was/is key to their own self-image and self-esteem. I may wish it was different, but the perceptions of strangers (not to mention friends) matters. Being un-gendered by a clerk at the store who calls you "sir" is a blow, teens at the mall insulting you is a blow, folks laughing as yuo pass them .. you get what I'm saying. The confidance of having something as basic as your gender affirmed unconciously on a daily basis cannot be over stated.

The reality is, most Trans*women can pass, given the means and access to do so. By "pass" I mean they can walk outside in daylight and not get insulted. They aren't porn chick sexy, they look like the average woman they are. So, "passing" is critical for the general well-being of most Trans*women. Being sexually desireable (for me) was way way down on the list.

I couldn´t say it better myself, you put your finger right on the spot Bionca!

[jimnaseum]

I told my psychiatrist that if I ever became famous as an artist that he should tell people that I was completely insane, but if I stayed a loser to please keep my records confidential.

[hankhavelock]

Originally Posted by Bionca

There needs to be a clarification I think. To guys who love/date/fuck/admire/jerk-off to Trans*Women so often "Passing" = "pretty".

Hmmm... time has passed since we discussed this. But I believe you're right, Mizzy B. It's more about pretty than "passable". I dislike the term, btw, "passable" as what?

Do I feel embarrassed if people can see that my girlfriend is a trans*woman? No, I don't - on the contrary, actually. Does SHE feel embarrassed? Probably sometimes.

So "passability" is most likely more a case of her feeling satisfied by her own femininity.

But pretty is the thing - and in this regard it is no different from any guy's attration to any girl - cis* or trans*. As I'm certain you also like a handsome man...

Let's not be hypocritical about this.

So here's the REAL question:

Personality and anything else aside, just LOOKS... would I prefer to date a pretty but not "passable" or a "passable" but not pretty trans*woman?

Well, you know my answer to that.

The whole issue is, that this damn "passability" thing distracts the point that femininity is not only a matter of feminine features. Femininity is personality and in the end these cannot really be separated.

I have several "non-passable" trans*friends (some of them strikingly gorgeous) - meaning that people know they are trans*women. Again, to many trans*women this is obviously an important aspect, so I have to respect it, but it's not the most important aspect by my current views. Her femininity comes from so deep inside. And THAT'S what I pick up on...

H

[Bionca]

Hank - I prefer the term "blend" over "pass". I mean the opposite of "pass" is "fail" and I refuse to believe that any trans woman is a failure at being a woman.

[hankhavelock]

Originally Posted by Bionca

Hank - I prefer the term "blend" over "pass". I mean the opposite of "pass" is "fail" and I refuse to believe that any trans woman is a failure at being a woman.

Missy B, the one and only thing that worries me about the term "passability" is it's inherent despect for transsexuality as a concept. It is as if it doesn't recognize the beauty of trans*reality.

Why is it that a transsexual woman should "pass as anything"? Why can't she just be a transsexual woman?

I ofcourse know your answer to this one, but I'd like to challenge a little bit the neglect of transsexuality as a beautiful "state of mind" in its own right.

As Fiona (my x) once put it beautifully: "I'm a woman, but a TRANSSEXUAL woman not a bio-woman, and I'm happy to be..." I found that to be one of the most important and deep statements I've ever heard from a trans*woman. She pinpointed in so many words the whole issue.

Well, I'm just a fuzzy little "tranny-lover", so I reckon I'm biased, but yet...

H

[CreativeMind]

Originally Posted by TSmelissacarter

Creative, I can always count on you to read my every word unfortunately I cannot return the favor.

You can contact me privately whenever you are ready for our date bring lube.

Translation: "Creative, I know you're right, but I can't admit it openly.
Otherwise my truly fucked-up ego would crumble and I'd have no reason to exist."

As for bringing lube to any date with you, a far better tip for all of your clients
would probably be to bring massive doses of antibiotics given your profession...

[randolph]

Hey Melissa!
Give them hell baby, the more you talk, the more I would like to have sex with you. When can I get an appointment?

[studformtf07]

I view TS women the same as GGs, it is all about how they take care of themselves and their sex appeal. If ANY girl is sloppy of just plain unattractive to me, then I'm not interested. So, to me, "passing" is in an individual thing.

[Naked Freedom]

being passable is very important..... but more important is how the transswoman feel and think

[Renegade91]

very important.

must be fully shaven down below aswel.

passable is everthing otherwise I would find any gay man to fuck or suck me. It's the excitement of being with a beautiful woman who can turn-me-on with her looks and make me wanna go gay to be with her. This why I have no guilt for feeling this way. If a ladyboy can look so hot that I want to fuck her and give her head, THAT'S GREAT!!!

[alyssaluxor]

i really like Transexual girls who are passable

for me they are the cream of the crop