How important is passable/female identity?

Trim your moustache dude stay off my thread

Get back to work the drive thrus backing up

[smolderingtemptress]

Originally Posted by TSmelissacarter

Trim your moustache dude stay off my thread

Get back to work the drive thrus backing up

Working at fast food is more respectable than what you do.

[Bionca]

I'd like to go on record stating I hate the word "Passing". Is the opposite then, "Failing"? Is a Trans*woman who can't afford thousands of dollars in surgeries a failure? I don't think so. It also implies a level of deception, since the term is taken from light-skinned African-Americans who could "pass" as white.

All that said, I worked very hard to afford the feminization surgeries that modified my skull and neck. "Passing" is at the very least an issue of personal safety for many. Unfortunately, "passing" becomes equated with "pretty" and used to justify insulting some gals.

[Talvenada]

Originally Posted by Bionca

I'd like to go on record stating I hate the word "Passing". Is the opposite then, "Failing"? Is a Trans*woman who can't afford thousands of dollars in surgeries a failure? I don't think so. It also implies a level of deception, since the term is taken from light-skinned African-Americans who could "pass" as white.

All that said, I worked very hard to afford the feminization surgeries that modified my skull and neck. "Passing" is at the very least an issue of personal safety for many. Unfortunately, "passing" becomes equated with "pretty" and used to justify insulting some gals.

BIONCA,

Am I the first to notice your sexy new avatar?

Is this a one photo thing, or more than one photo taken at that time?

[furion]

i think its down to the girl at the end of the day, if shes happy shes happy. some women dont care that they dont always pass as they are very confident.

Others as you say can get upset and cry as you did. i guess this is because they strive for perfection and want to pass 100% of the time as a female.

From a guys point of view, especially a str8 guys this is perhaps more important since he wants to be seen dating females and not TS ladies.

Just some thoughts for your tread

Originally Posted by Bionca

I'd like to go on record stating I hate the word "Passing". Is the opposite then, "Failing"? Is a Trans*woman who can't afford thousands of dollars in surgeries a failure? I don't think so. It also implies a level of deception, since the term is taken from light-skinned African-Americans who could "pass" as white.

All that said, I worked very hard to afford the feminization surgeries that modified my skull and neck. "Passing" is at the very least an issue of personal safety for many. Unfortunately, "passing" becomes equated with "pretty" and used to justify insulting some gals.

I can understand you hating it but the fact is, it's the word referring to "believable". So pick a word, any word, but in the end we are talking about being perceived as a woman.

[hankhavelock]

Originally Posted by Bionca

I'd like to go on record stating I hate the word "Passing". Is the opposite then, "Failing"? Is a Trans*woman who can't afford thousands of dollars in surgeries a failure? I don't think so. It also implies a level of deception, since the term is taken from light-skinned African-Americans who could "pass" as white.

All that said, I worked very hard to afford the feminization surgeries that modified my skull and neck. "Passing" is at the very least an issue of personal safety for many. Unfortunately, "passing" becomes equated with "pretty" and used to justify insulting some gals.

Well said, Mizzy B. Obviously, grasping not only the superficial feminine prettyness but rather the entire beauty of transsexuality, which by my book goes way much deeper than merely a great face-job, is what this is all about.

And with that comes a deep respect and a realization that transsexuality above all and deeper than all is an amazing degree of self-realization that very few people would ever have the courage to pursue.

I've certainly been in circumstances where more "passable" transsexual women would actually mock their socalled less passable sisters - and that's not nice at all. Actually, it's ridiculous.

But that's to some degree the name of the game, I'm afraid...

Originally Posted by hankhavelock

Well said, Mizzy B. Obviously, grasping not only the superficial feminine prettyness but rather the entire beauty of transsexuality, which by my book goes way much deeper than merely a great face-job, is what this is all about.

And with that comes a deep respect and a realization that transsexuality above all and deeper than all is an amazing degree of self-realization that very few people would ever have the courage to pursue.

I've certainly been in circumstances where more "passable" transsexual women would actually mock their socalled less passable sisters - and that's not nice at all. Actually, it's ridiculous.

But that's to some degree the name of the game, I'm afraid...

It is easy to downplay the importance people place on passability as "superficial" and "shallow".

Now imagine this: you live your life as a woman, and with every daily outing you are clocked and stared at, like a spectacle, hopelessly male and not passing. People are merciless in their stares and their judgments. That is a transsexuals's worst nightmare. Ansd she will avoid it at any cost.

So I disagree. Passability is HUGE and becoming fully passable is expensive and painful. I have gone through the procedures and am still having more work done. Some respect should be given to those of us who did the hard work, not for superficial reasons but because we believe we became the woman we felt like inside.

[hankhavelock]

Originally Posted by TSmelissacarter

It is easy to downplay the importance people place on passability as "superficial" and "shallow".

Now imagine this: you live your life as a woman, and with every daily outing you are clocked and stared at, like a spectacle, hopelessly male and not passing. People are merciless in their stares and their judgments. That is a transsexuals's worst nightmare. Ansd she will avoid it at any cost.

So I disagree. Passability is HUGE and becoming fully passable is expensive and painful. I have gone through the procedures and am still having more work done. Some respect should be given to those of us who did the hard work, not for superficial reasons but because we believe we became the woman we felt like inside.

Nono, you misread me. I'm in no way critisizing any one for striving for passability, perfection or any thing that is important to them. On the contrary I salute it completely. And yes, I realize of course the importance of the socalled passability.

My point goes to other aspects as well, though. Firstly, I don't find it fair when obvious pretty, gorgeous and "passable" trans-women look down on their less fortunate sisters. Secondly, I believe that gender identification is just as important for the less fortunate one than for the passable one.

My immensely wise (and extraordinarily beautiful and passable) x once said that "to be a succesful transsexual you must to some extent not only accept but actually cherish your masculinity". There's a lot of truth in that.

But again, transsexuality is as difficult to categorize and generalize as most things - probably even more so. I've found almost as many approaches to being transsexual as I've met trans-women.

My other x (equally extraordinarily gorgeous and passable) said it in another way: "I'm not at all aiming at becoming a "real" woman - I'm totally happy at being a very unique, transsexual woman". She certainly is!

Again, it's very personal and individual.

But basicly I fully understand and partly agree with your "abstract".

H

Well said Hank. We will never be women in the truest sense and those who purport as much are naïve and most likely beginners.

We are transsexual the third gender we are women with attitude. And we focus on our femininity more than natural women.

Originally Posted by smolderingtemptress

Working at fast food is more respectable than what you do.

Hey smothering ma-nin-a-dress whats lacking respect is your high talk and complete anonymity. You accuse me of a lowly profession when I'm doing more to make the world respect TS than you could ever do with your cartoon profile and empty words.

One day you'll beg me to fuck you and you'll pay handsomely for the privilege.

[smolderingtemptress]

Originally Posted by TSmelissacarter

Hey smothering ma-nin-a-dress whats lacking respect is your high talk and complete anonymity. You accuse me of a lowly profession when I'm doing more to make the world respect TS than you could ever do with your cartoon profile and empty words.

One day you'll beg me to fuck you and you'll pay handsomely for the privilege.

You're so delusional, I almost pity you.

And I thought you weren't trying to do anything for TS? Don't tell me you've had a change of heart now?

Originally Posted by smolderingtemptress

Don't tell me you've had a change of heart now?

Hey Dude, I take cash only no checks and no English currency.

Get a new cartoon profile. You can keep hiding behind your computer like a scared little man.

[smolderingtemptress]

Originally Posted by TSmelissacarter

Hey Dude, I take cash only no checks and no English currency.

Get a new cartoon profile. You can keep hiding behind your computer like a scared little man.

May I remind you that it was you who started insulting me in this thread, and that I merely posted about my own experience relevant to the topic on an OPEN FORUM. You're repeating the same thing over and over whenever you see my avatar, which you no doubt admire so much, to the degree that is almost obsessive.

I'm not going to be one of your clientele; there's no need for you to sell yourself to me at every opportunity.

He who talks shit and hides behinds a computer, that should be your Indian name.

You show me a TS I'll show you a girl with 1000 pics of herself.