How important is passable/female identity?

Originally Posted by hankhavelock

Well said, Mizzy B. Obviously, grasping not only the superficial feminine prettyness but rather the entire beauty of transsexuality, which by my book goes way much deeper than merely a great face-job, is what this is all about.

And with that comes a deep respect and a realization that transsexuality above all and deeper than all is an amazing degree of self-realization that very few people would ever have the courage to pursue.

I've certainly been in circumstances where more "passable" transsexual women would actually mock their socalled less passable sisters - and that's not nice at all. Actually, it's ridiculous.

But that's to some degree the name of the game, I'm afraid...

It is easy to downplay the importance people place on passability as "superficial" and "shallow".

Now imagine this: you live your life as a woman, and with every daily outing you are clocked and stared at, like a spectacle, hopelessly male and not passing. People are merciless in their stares and their judgments. That is a transsexuals's worst nightmare. Ansd she will avoid it at any cost.

So I disagree. Passability is HUGE and becoming fully passable is expensive and painful. I have gone through the procedures and am still having more work done. Some respect should be given to those of us who did the hard work, not for superficial reasons but because we believe we became the woman we felt like inside.

[hankhavelock]

Originally Posted by TSmelissacarter

It is easy to downplay the importance people place on passability as "superficial" and "shallow".

Now imagine this: you live your life as a woman, and with every daily outing you are clocked and stared at, like a spectacle, hopelessly male and not passing. People are merciless in their stares and their judgments. That is a transsexuals's worst nightmare. Ansd she will avoid it at any cost.

So I disagree. Passability is HUGE and becoming fully passable is expensive and painful. I have gone through the procedures and am still having more work done. Some respect should be given to those of us who did the hard work, not for superficial reasons but because we believe we became the woman we felt like inside.

Nono, you misread me. I'm in no way critisizing any one for striving for passability, perfection or any thing that is important to them. On the contrary I salute it completely. And yes, I realize of course the importance of the socalled passability.

My point goes to other aspects as well, though. Firstly, I don't find it fair when obvious pretty, gorgeous and "passable" trans-women look down on their less fortunate sisters. Secondly, I believe that gender identification is just as important for the less fortunate one than for the passable one.

My immensely wise (and extraordinarily beautiful and passable) x once said that "to be a succesful transsexual you must to some extent not only accept but actually cherish your masculinity". There's a lot of truth in that.

But again, transsexuality is as difficult to categorize and generalize as most things - probably even more so. I've found almost as many approaches to being transsexual as I've met trans-women.

My other x (equally extraordinarily gorgeous and passable) said it in another way: "I'm not at all aiming at becoming a "real" woman - I'm totally happy at being a very unique, transsexual woman". She certainly is!

Again, it's very personal and individual.

But basicly I fully understand and partly agree with your "abstract".

H

Well said Hank. We will never be women in the truest sense and those who purport as much are naïve and most likely beginners.

We are transsexual the third gender we are women with attitude. And we focus on our femininity more than natural women.

[hankhavelock]

Originally Posted by TSmelissacarter

Well said Hank. We will never be women in the truest sense and those who purport as much are naïve and most likely beginners.

We are transsexual the third gender we are women with attitude. And we focus on our femininity more than natural women.

Aaahhh, but then what is "in the truest sense"? No, transsexual women will never become biological women (that would certainly take some work on the cromosones :-), but is a biological woman necessarily more woman than a transsexual woman?

I'm not so sure that she is - actually I'm quite sure she isn't if we open our minds and view this a bit differently than main stream beliefs.

This is obviously my personal opinion based on my personal experience - and that is that "womanhood" or "femininity" or which ever term you wish to use to describe the gender characteristics are diverse and certainly apply as well to transsexual women as they do to cisgender women.

Surely, you may have a hard time getting a passport stating "she" (due to screwed-up lack of understanding from the lay-people who rule the world), but does that make you less of a woman?

I don't think so.

So I find no reason why cisgender girls should have a monopoly on "womanhood".

H

Originally Posted by hankhavelock

Surely, you may have a hard time getting a passport stating "she" (due to screwed-up lack of understanding from the lay-people who rule the world), but does that make you less of a woman?

Hank, I understand why you might say this but in fact my birth certificate is being reissued as a female and with this modified document will indeed be eligible for a female passport.