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#1
10-08-2009
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Posting Of Pay Site Images - All Read.
Please don't post more than 3 photos from any one set of a the below sites here. As producers, we work very hard and spend a lot of money to produce the content we do and as a fan myself, I certainly understand why you want to show off the content and share it. However, this is detrimental not only to our companies, but to the models, the fans and ultimately the production of TS porn in general as well as the welfare of this site and opening the possibility of the site and yourself, to legal action - something we'd not want to do, hence the requests here.
We allow forums and fans to use a small amount of content as it helps forums like this generate members and in turn, sell our sites which keeps them active and alive as they make money from each sale, which covers the servers and expenses. However, when you post massive amounts, people don't need to join a site and therefore everybody loses money - and the productions WILL stop or slow down ... then what will we all be jerking off to? Independent producers like Grooby, or Bobs-Tgirls, Krissy4u, DeliaTS, HotWendyWilliams work on small budgets that rely on membership levels to allow us to continue to produce and remain profitable and a massive amount of our budgets go directly back into models fees. So, I'd like to ask you all to please, refrain from posting links to tube sites showing stolen content, uploaded content, showing more than 3 photos from any one set from a website (and multiple users showing 3 photos each would be a breach of that rule) and to respect our property rights. If you want to see more content, then please go to a site whose product you like, take a look at their tours and their membership options, and join. Thank you. seanchai CLARIFICATION ADDED 09 OCT - IF YOU WISH TO POST THE IMAGES FROM CONTENT SPECIFICALLY GIVEN BY THE SITES FOR MARKETING, THEN THAT IS FINE. THIS SHOULD FIT INTO THE 15 IMAGES PER SET, DEEMED AS FAIR BY THE FORUM OWNERS. THIS DOES NOT MEAN YOU CAN TAKE ANY 15 IMAGES FROM THE MEMBERS SITE OR OTHER FREE/STOLEN CONTENT SITES for http://www.shemaleyum.com http://www.black-tgirls.com http://www.shemale-pornstar.com http://www.brazilian-transsexuals.com http://www.franks-tgirlworld.com http://www.bobs-tgirls.com http://www.shemales-from-hell.com http://www.shemalepornstar.com http://www.transexdomination.com http://www.zoefuckpupper.com http://www.straponjane.com http://www.deliats.com http://www.kimsanalheaven.com http://www.clubcrossdresser.com http://www.lucimay.com http://www.karentvslut.com http://www.candilovedoll.com http://www.nylonbitchyvette.com http://www.kirstystgplayground.com http://www.latinatranny.com http://www.shemale-club.com http://www.kimberjames.com http://www.kellyshore.com http://www.mariammicol.com http://www.tsfoxxy.com http://www.tsjesse.com http://www.hotwendywilliams.com http://www.interracialtgirlsex.com http://www.privatetranssexual.com http://www.jasminejewels.com http://www.mandymitchell.com http://www.natassiadreams.com http://www.hazeltucker.com |
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#2
10-08-2009
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Hi, I can appreciate your self interest here. I would like you to clarify something for all of us. Pretty much all of these picture do come from pay sites as the originating source. I, for one, have never contributed a single penny to a paysite directly. I may have some pics that did come from one directly through the sharing on this forum and others, but primarily the vast bulk of my files are from "gratis" sites. Are you asserting that we should not post more than 3 pics from a shoot when there is a free web page that shows up to twenty? In my mind, I see those pictures as paid for since we have to endure the advertising, pop ups, and other miscellania that accompany them.
Final Question  Do you consider the pics from the "free" sites as falling under your request?
__________________
Ask Jenae anything, just click on this link: http://forum.transladyboy.com/showthread.php?t=6056 |
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#3
10-08-2009
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If it was from legal content released by the producers ie; FHG sites, then view than there and please don't repose more than 3 shots from any one set, here. Thanks hope this clarifies for you. Maybe you'd want to consider contributing a few pennies to a website directly? |
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#4
10-08-2009
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re max 3 photos
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I fully understand your point but I personally thought we were actually promoting your sites by posting the promo pics. This forum has a rule that forbids members to post full 'sets' of models or video clips over 9 mins. This is to ensure that the 'copyrights' of the pics etc you are speaking of, are not violated. Also members are asked to mention the site to promote the producer. I personally respect that and I do know that the cost of running such websites are astronomical because Ive often exchanged mails with the site owners that I have been a member of. But my question is: Are you saying that we should only post 3 pics that are shown in the original site, even when there are sometimes 50 or more in the preview sections, because otherwise the members will lose interest to look the site up and take the tour? Im sure the majority of members do not wish to infringe on your property rights and will take your request into consideration. By the way, thanks for that list of sites you posted and of course, your efforts regarding the Grooby sites. Regards Lba |
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#5
10-08-2009
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Hi Lba
All we're asking is for 3 images from each set not each site. Not even each model! I don't know many companies which show more than this small amount in a tour. Whilst the forum might ask members to abide by rules, quite simply, not everyone has the same respect as you. The Linetrap/Harley Quinn post has had full sets of ours posted and links to the whole video on *******.com Another poster has posted about 40 images from the same set of Chrissy. We work diligently on our own promotions and we like and respect forums like this, which is why the websites do allow so much of their content to be used but ultimately showing too much is hurting producers too much. Regards Steven |
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#6
10-08-2009
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I am a bit affronted by your tone. You use the word "grabbed" instead of "downloaded" which implies I took them like some kind of thief. No I did not grab them; I downloaded pics that were freely offered. There are hundreds of web sites out there with links to gallery pages. Once you go to these pages, you are then free in most cases to download the pics there. Kinda like a free samples page from the producer who is hoping you will go their pay site and join. To this end, there is advertising and a link provided.
Example - I go to one of my favorites: http://www.maxshemales.com/main.shtml. There I find numerous links to other free hosting gallery pages along with many pages of samples. I pick out one I wish to look at and go there; in this case it is http://galleries.hotwendywilliams.com/gallery/t=british/s=47lisa/i=1834419 which is one of yours. Since she is acceptable, I download the pics. And I am done there. Nowhere do I see a claim of copyright which forbids the further dissemination of the pics. The closest thing is that each pic has a small logo on it which says Hot Wendy Productions on it. Now are you trying to tell me that none of your income is derived from the benefits of this process. Are you saying that you don't have new paying members join as a result of these free pics? Of course not. Whether I join or not is irrelevant, many do. And we will not even get into the subject of cookies, trojans, malware, etc that are foisted onto site visitors without their knowledge. Not saying your sites do this, but many sites do. As you well know, this forum has a rule limiting the number of pics and asks members to identify the site they came from. That is sufficient. And fair. For you to come on here and plead for a lower limit is ridiculous. I say if you don't like, it then limit your distributed free pics to 3 per shoot. That would be a surefire way to ensure your aim here. I seriously doubt you are willing to do this in the competative market you are in. I also doubt whether the amount of sharing here affects your business all that much, in fact I would guess it is microscopic in figures. Final words: "I think you are barking up the wrong tree" and "Why buy the cow when you are happy with the free milk." P.S. While I was composing this, I see other posts have been made. I will agree with you that the posting of material by members who have joined your sites and then proceed to post what I assume is copywrited and restricted material is ethically wrong. I would also agree that you have the right to try and stop these actions. I suggest you concentrate you efforts at your own sites. Perhaps you could encode information in the digital information of each pic that would allow you to identify the culprits; or would that be too cost prohibitive?
__________________
Ask Jenae anything, just click on this link: http://forum.transladyboy.com/showthread.php?t=6056 Last edited by Jenae LaTorque; 10-08-2009 at 07:48 PM. |
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#7
10-08-2009
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Jenae
Whether you like my tone or not is irrelevant. Let me explain to you as your obviously unaware of intellectual copyright law so you may better understand it and won't have to appear so ignorant in arguing against it. The sample you gave: http://galleries.hotwendywilliams.co...lisa/i=1834419 All those photos belong to Wendy Williams. She has produced these galleries for her affiliates to make sales to her sites. Nobody has permission to steal those images, from her server and post them elsewhere. It's theft and any host that puts those images up, can be punishable by law. Most companies affiliate programs have strict Terms and Conditions on the usage of material. This content is NOT free. You can watch an advertisement on TV which based on your argument is "free" but you cannot take the content of that advertisement and use it to your own purposes. There does not have to be a copyright statement on a page. Wendy holds the intellectual copyright to that content. I don't care what YOU think is sufficient and fair. I'm asking for people to respect producers copyright, including our own and show a fair amount of images. YOU are technically breaking the law if you upload content that doesn't belong to you. I respect your opinions if you don't think this would make a difference to our business but I've been very successful in this business for over 12 years and in my opinion, it does make a difference and that's what I'm asking for the help of the board. More aggressive companies or companies who aren't part of the tgirl culture may simply DMCA the owners of this board and demand that all content must be removed - and the owners, legally, would be forced to oblige. If you don't like that, then just don't post anything. |
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#8
10-08-2009
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I think the 3 pic rule is reasonable. If you like a certain girl and want to post pics to help promote her then just do three from one set then three from another to show variety. The more exposure she gets then the more fans and members will join pay sites. Just use the rule of three.
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#9
10-08-2009
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I must say Wendy is very pretty
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#10
10-09-2009
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Into the Fray...
Seanchai,
I read your post, and while I can understand and appreciate your basic statement, I do think you are possibly being a little unrealistic and you definitely sound a little snarkey and rude to other members of this forum who like you, are just trying to voice their opinion and perhaps engage in some dialog with you on this subject. Are you saying that by law no one should be to allowed to repost any material from any of your sites? I have been a paying member of some of your sites, and I have never posted any full set (or even much content-there are so many other sites out there). Most of us just post our favorite pics from each set or girl. But I am confused a little. I see dozens of promo free sets on all kinds of freebie sites(each with up to 10 or more pics) that change daily, and I assume that those are free for anyone to download. Are those free pages done without your permission? If not, do you expect people to just download the same 3 pics only from a free page of 10 or more pics? Thats absurd. Why even have teaser or free pages at all? (because, I suspect, that its good for your business) Like our posts, the preview pages aren't the full sets, just teasers. If you want the really good pics, you need to join, (as many do). In a forum like this, eventually people can post enough pics from various sources, that maybe eventually there is almost a complete set, but this is pretty rare and happens with only the most popular girls. I agree people should not post entire sets from the actual pay sites, but almost everyone here just posts freebies, or pics they have had for years. I don't see any possible way you could limit any given set to 3 pics unless thats all you ever released on the free sites, and encoded any on the pay site so they could not be reposted. (you would also have to oversee what/who/how many pics get posted here and on every other forum) ("Porn Czar"?) or as you said, shut down every site that offends you. Also, isn't it similar to TV/movie copyright? That is, I can tape anything I want on TV, radio, etc.for my own use, but I cannot re-sell it or rebroadcast it for profit. (that is , its OK for private use) Isn't that similar to what we are doing? We are just posting pictures that we have for others enjoyment, and the site is free. Its also not exactly a major site. It took me years, and I just happened to stumble on this forum. (so in the major scheme of things, is this site really taking away business from your sites, or is it all forums like this in their totallity?) And are you posting this message on their forums as well? (I do understand your "Why buy the cow, when you can get the milk for free" argument)...but another phrase which comes to mind is "Your trying to close the barn door after the cow has escaped". I would hate to see it happen, but it almost sounds like you would have to make it to where no pic can be downloaded unless you bought it. No freebies, only pages where you can see the pic, but could only download it/them if you became a member. (isn't that how some of the early sites worked?...or maybe didn't work..) Perhaps you could try going after the main offenders who are posting complete sets or videos. Most of us here are respectful of the rules and appreciate what business people like yourself are trying to do. I support your sites, your intellectual rights, and your right to voice your concerns. I hope you can appreciate what we are doing (and not doing) here as well. Last edited by violet lightning; 10-09-2009 at 10:29 AM. |
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#11
10-09-2009
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"We learn as we go"
The quote is from the character "Frenchy" in The Cotton Club movie.
So I did some research on copyrights, and I believe I now have a better grasp of the situation. Technically you are pretty much right, concerning the issue of copyright infringement, but I still think you are "barking up the wrong tree." There are still a lot of "grey" areas in the matter of copyright infringement over the internet. You have several problems with your case: 1. Your Subject Matter - Your area is pornography, and to make matters worse, it is transgender porn which is even more repugnant to a large segment of the public. True, this should not matter in terms of the application of the law, but you know, as we all do, that justice is oftentimes not served when it comes to T-people. I don't expect that you will find a lot of sympathy out there for your plight. You will find more here as long as you are civil. 2. Proving Your Case - I can see where you may have a hard time proving damages here when you already have a multitude of porn images elsewhere availible on the internet for down loading free of charge. When it comes down to the numbers, the number of downloads here will be dwarved by the daily number of downloads at the original page. You will also need to prove that a significant number would have joined your site if they were unable to download the pics here. As part of researching this subject I had to check out the Harley thread since I am not a fan of hers. And, I found that there are not really that many pics there. I am going to assume that there were a lot of them since you are bitchin' about it. That leads me to the conclusion that you have already coerced the site authorities into removing a great many of the disputed pics. If you did this solely on your own as a moderator, I suggest that there may be a "conflict of interest here." This would be further evidenced by the fact that I am aware of several threads where there are sets represented by many more pics than the 15 pic limit, and they have not been pruned or removed entirely. 3. The Question of Who is Liable - You suggested or threatened that you could hold us, the members of the forum, responsible for the copyright infringement. You know, or your lawyers should know, that this would be a very difficult road to follow since we are not the owners of the site. Now there are a whole lot of legal issues concerning that..... so, I won't go into that since you have lawyers for that. Suffice it to say, that most forum members have stayed within the requirements of the forum rules. You may have a case against members who posted pictures that they obtained as a member of your sites, but I think your case against those of us who simply posted pictures that are freely available is very weak at best, almost nil in fact. :D Now I have a question here. By posting on here, did you solicit our opinions, and are you thus obligated to compensate me for my advice if you use it in any way to form your legal position. If you feel so, I would accept a free membership to the SM Club site
__________________
Ask Jenae anything, just click on this link: http://forum.transladyboy.com/showthread.php?t=6056 |
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#12
10-09-2009
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I knew it
Hello Seanchai, Jenae, Violet lightning and fellow members,
I think I was the second to read the post from Seanchai and I already thought....this is going to cause a lot of discussion. Firstly, I think you guys are being a little unfair to Seanchai. His initial post was polite and certainly not flexing the usual muscles that other site owners do with threatening legal action to the forum and its members and this ridiculous FBI crap statement ( Im sure the FBI have other things on their minds) ...it was merely a request stating his concerns and I think words like snarkey, rude, feeling affronted etc., uncalled for. Hey people, isn't this what a forum is for? Seanchai has the right to voice his opinions and of course his 'tone' is going to match the replies. Im sure none of us want to ruin the good work done by Grooby and indeed any other producer, so it would be in all our interests to settle this in a amicable manner. I think only sensible dialogue will bring a solution without any animosity. I see that you are all educated people, so a slanging match would be somewhat out of place. Im surprised that the moderators here have not made a comment regarding this topic...after all, the fact that the post is in the 'sticky' section, proves it's of a legitimate nature...so lets hear your views from above please. PS. Just for the record Jenae and Violet lightning, Im on your side but 'lest we forget'...without the pioneers like Seanchai, this forum wouldn't exist and we would all be still just dreaming of tgirls like before the internet era. Regards to all Lba |
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#13
10-09-2009
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Hi Violet,
Some excellent questions there and I'll try to answer them in turn, so the information is easier to decimate, rather than from one long post. Unrealistic, maybe but we (TS producers) have had a number of initiatives for the past year aimed at piracy and over saturation of our content that has worked, and better to be unrealistic and try to do something about it, rather than not at all, while our business erodes. I wouldn't need to be "snarkey" to other members of this forum, if they didn't feel the need to be rude and insulting to me, showing ignorance without the facts, so it's a bit give and take. Quote:
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http://galleries.grooby.com/nats/092...6NQ,0,0,0,1611 http://galleries.grooby.com/nats/yum...6NQ,0,0,0,1583 These are content given by site owners to their affiliates to promote their website. The general consensus by most site is it's ok if you use this content to post, providing that it's not been resized and there is a link to the website or company it was taken from. This would be acceptable on the 15 image rule. However, what people have been doing is posting 15 images from the members areas and not the 12-15 images posted for promotion, they've also been posting multiple posts, of 15 images each. Quote:
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I expect that will be the way the internet will go (and it's already happening) which is why you should support independent companies like the ones listed here. Quote:
We produce more content than any other one company and work with 100's of models a year, worldwide. I don't want to reduce the productions, that would hurt us all. Thanks again for a good dialogue and I hope this has answered some of your questions. |
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#14
10-09-2009
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Hi Jenae
I'm not going to get into a long and lengthy debate about copyright laws. I don't want to go that route, I know my rights and the rights of all producers which is why their is a DMCA law and why servers, site owners and ISP's are so strict about. What you "think" is the law is frankly and with due respect, irrelevant as is your "grey areas". I'll answer a couple of your more pertinent points but please read the post in response to Violet above this Quote:
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There is no conflict of interest, we both want to provide this site with good legal content, to generate discussion and fan base. The site owners and myself, would like people to join the sites, which in turn, keeps us able to produce content and the owners to pay the server fees in keeping this running. Quote:
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I do however, welcome an open dialogue. Legal issues are not really opening to question, take them up with your politicians. Thanks Last edited by seanchai; 10-09-2009 at 10:27 PM. |
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#15
10-09-2009
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hmm Amen
That reply must have taken you ages to compile Seanchai, some interesting facts there...thanks for your time
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#16
10-09-2009
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Quote:
 It's not the first time I've answered the same questions. Thanks |
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#17
10-09-2009
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ok here goes
seanchai you sound very much like the RIAA who blame the end users of a product for the loss of business. consider this, i can do a google search right now for just about anything and i can guarentee you i will find what i am looking for without having to pay. whose fault is that? mine or yours? as a provider of a specific kind of content it is upon YOU to secure you data or IP(Interllectual Properrty) or whatever you want to call it. dont go after us poor plebs. go after the saucy knaves who are stealing your IP. it is not my fault that more that more than three pics of any given galllery is available on the internet. it is YOUR responsibility to ensure what is available to us poor plebs.
sure you can enforce a three pic rule on your own site via tours. as Jenae LaTorque said(i think), we help to promote your paysites. now as to copyright. you have to PROVE what the INTENTION is. not what i'm actually doing. read them laws again. just because im searching for pics of shemales or tgirls (reminds me of a thread in the Shemale Chat section, they are women not just objects of sexual desire) does not mean im going to your site with the purpose of stealimg. i want to jack off to something that i find appealing. so im going to go where the freely availabel content is, not to a forum that only allows three pics of any given set. so it comes down to this. if you want to protect your content, only make three examples available per set availanle to the public. do not have teaser sets of nine, twelve or fifteen examples available. once again the onus is upon YOU to protect your content. not me, not Jenae LaTorque or any other member of this forum. to quote you "...Legal issues are not really opening to question, take them up with your politicians." why involve politicians? this is not a polical matter. secure your IP, make your data is protected. dont make us the scapegoat. violet lightning and Jenae LaTorque(she has such nawty eyes  ) 
__________________
Go Hard. . . 
Last edited by Excaliborg; 10-09-2009 at 06:21 PM. |
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#18
10-09-2009
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Here Goes
While I have obviously mixed feelings about the adult industry, I have to go with Seanchai here. I doubt there would be very many times when this is the case.
The porn industry does not have huge margins to begin with unless you are Playboy, Hustler, Vivid, or Private. Grooby may be the big fish, but they are still in a tiny pond. We are being nicely asked to actually support the industry that has made this site possible. We can join a pay site and/or stop snagging and posting their stuff. Simple really. If Seanchai's request was unreasonable, you bet I'd be on it like stink on a skunk. However, I think this is a very realistic compromise.
__________________
- I hate being braver than the guys I date. - Yes, it's me in the avatar Blog: http://laughriotgirl.wordpress.com/ |
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#19
10-09-2009
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Pretty much with searching and hard work, you will find stolen content, we spend time and energy trying to delete and restrict access to stolen content so that the average surfer will get better value for his time and money, by spending on one of our sites and helping perpetuate more content. I've already stated more than 3 pics can be posted if it's from content we give away freely, but not from membership area content. Quote:
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b) I've stated, that they can use the sample photos ... the 3 image rule, is for those from the website members area. If in doubt, don't post as you more than likely, got them from illegal postings. Quote:
My point was, if you have problems with the current copyright laws, take them up with politicians and not with us. We act within the current laws and all we're asking, is for you to do the same. |
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#20
10-09-2009
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Thanks...
 Thanks for answering all my questions seanchai. It all sounds reasonable, and it seems like your really after a few major offenders who don't respect the money and effort that goes into actually producing original material and maintaining websites.I hope you don't mind a few more thoughts/questions/observations as this seems like a good opportunity to learn more. Are you a moderator or owner of this site? Is this forum connected in some way to commercial sites, or was it established for members to enjoy and share pics, etc? Is there a legal precedent for forums like this to exist? Also, an example of an earlier point: I visited a site earlier today,(juicyshemales.com) that is a freebie-link page, and there were two different sets of Carla Novais from shemaleclub that had 20 pics each. (thats 40 free pics from just two sets on a page with hundreds of free sets--and they change daily!) Multiply that by the hundreds of other freebie pages and your talking thousands of free pics daily. Does releasing so many free photos hurt yours (and others) business much? How do you differentiate between the free pics and the ones that are on the pay-site? It also seems like the free pics are so good, you would have just as many people being satisfied with those as being tempted to join. (I would assume this is not the case or you wouldn't be doing it) Does any problem arise when free sites like this begin getting "too good"? (The content is excellent, traffic goes up, the word gets out and perhaps people start wondering if we are cutting into their business....?) Are you generally ok with this site and others like it as long as they don't post whole sets or proprietary material? I won't belabor the point. These are just a few thoughts and questions. As I said, I get where you are coming from, and I believe your concerns are legitimate. I just hope you can solve the problems without becoming too draconian. I enjoy your sites as well as others, but I enjoy this site very much too. (Note-in the time it took to compose this, you answered or addressed some of my questions already in other posts, so forgive some of the points) It sounds like you are ok with this site and members, as long as we follow some basic rules...and that seems reasonable enough to me. Now you just have to convince everyone else! Last edited by violet lightning; 10-09-2009 at 11:05 PM. |
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#21
10-10-2009
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Hi there.
One thing that HAS to be said is that everything that is posted on the internet becomes de facto public domain, so copyrights are a bit of a non issue, if you don't wany your pics to be shared, don't post them on the internet in the first place, free or not, because they will always be someone that will resent having to pay for something and not be "allowed" to do what they want with it, which is the real issue here. The same is true for software, what is it we realy pay for? The disks, the manuals, the box? No we pay for the software, and since software is data, and easily copyable, why should i have to pay for 3 identicle copies of a piece of software for my 3 computers? I shouldn't, i paid for the software and i should have the "right" to do with it as i please, within reason of course, but again if you don't want others to have your software, don't publish it or accept the FACT that there will be some copy, even if you put all kinds of copy protections, someone ALWAYS finds a way to overide them. JohnDowe. |
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#22
10-10-2009
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 I just noticed you (seanshai) deleted 3 photos of Meghan Chavalier from one of my posts. (Meghan Chavalier Post in freebies, #5)Since I got these pics from a legitimate free site, (www.juicyshemales.com) and they are NOT stolen or from a members area, why did you delete them? I thought you just said 15 pics from the same set were ok with you as long as they were free "marketing" pictures. What gives? I'm playing by your rules! Is JSM not a legitimate marketing site? Are you saying they stole your content? Grrrr. Last edited by violet lightning; 10-10-2009 at 12:27 AM. |
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#23
10-10-2009
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Hi there.
I live in Canada and the gov had pretty heft tax on cigarettes and after a new increase of the cigarette tax the people revolted and a big black market cigarette "market" opened up to the point that the gov lost more revenue due to the black market and removed the new tax, but the dammage was done and the cigarette black market (from native tribes) is still booming not as well as when it was at it's strongest but it is better than it was before the gov put the new (but removed) cogarette tax, so actions often have unforseen concequences. Remember the OLD lawer addage; don't ask a question you don't already know the ansewer to? The reason is simple in a courtroom, if you ask a question you don't know the ansewer to, you may very well blow your own case out of the water. The same principle applied to the Germans in WW2 they attacked England to erode their morale, but to the German's dismay, it gave the Allies a new war cry "For England" and the end came several months sooner than expected. So in trying to protect yourselves and make more money off of the pics and vids on the internet through legislation you may create a backlash that will end up biting you in the ass. JohnDowe. |
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#24
10-10-2009
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Oh damn, here's that ignorant Jenae again!!!!
OK! You have cleared up some matters. You are not against us posting 15 pics from those pages that you have already made available on the net for free. OK You are against people who post material from the members section of the sites you are representing here. OK Perfecty understandable and justified. When we are talking about such material, and you wish to set the limit at three, I say fine. Not that it affects non-member me, but it isn't something I would do anyway due to ethical considerations. I am sure there is a clause in your member agreement prohibitting such behavior. I can't find any excuse for such contract breaking save that of sub-normal intelligence.
Even with that being said, I still believe that "you are barking up the wrong tree." But then, that is okay as long as you are barking up the other more likely trees also. I think this forum would have to be a very minor part of your problems. I think you would have to agree that the entry into the Tgirl market by big players like HUSTLER has cost you far more. The last five years have seen an explosion in the number of Tgirl related internet sites. When such an event occurs in any business, usually it is because the demand is there and there is money to be made. When this reaches a certain point where supply exceeds demand, then there will be a leveling out. Some producers will fall, while most others will have to become more efficient to survive. Also, we are now in a world-wide recession and perhaps you are feeling a crunch between the effects of that and a reduced demand due to the increased competition. And I have noticed that the competition is increasing not only in quantity, but in quality. There have never been so many truly attractive Tgirls on the net as there are now. No longer are photoshots like something that could pass for home candids or crappy movie stills. There are pics out there that approach closely to the standards as set by PLAYBOY. There are even some who are retouching their photos, like PLAYBOY, to such an extent that it is hard to recognize the silky smooth skinned model as the same one you just saw in another set with an acne pitted face. Speaking of Playboy; has anyone in the western world ever tried to emulate them by having a Tgirl club complete with Tgirl hostesses? So here you are. And here I am. I have been looking at the numbers. Lol I am a great believer in numbers. When people say this is so or that is so, I want to see the hard data; the numbers. Home page says we have 35, 969 members, 4,371 of whom are active members. Now I am unsure of what constitutes an active member as opposed to a non-active member. Perhaps one of you moderators or SSL could explain this distinction. Furthermore, it says there are 72 users online-18 members and 54 guests. Looking at the stats for where these members are currantly viewing, we see that the large majority of them are in the freebies section. So we can see that only 25% of those viewing at one point in time are members. It would be interesting to know how many visitors we get a day. Now it is true that one is not able to download pics unless one is a member and that is limited until you get enough points to where you are allowed more than you need or want. All in all, I don't see where those numbers can support a contention that you are losing much business here. Now links to video sites may well be a whole differant story. Visitors would be able to use those links to go there just as much as members. And if as you say, some of these links do lead to sites with stolen content; would it not be possible to create some kind of software linked to a database of known thief sites that would alert moderators to their posting, or even better, disallow the posting at all. Yes, I know that software doesn't grow on trees In summation, I still think this tree ain't worth barking up. But I really would not be bothered with a total limit of five or so pics from any one shoot. Because when you get down to it; there is so much availible free for the downloading out there, that there is no need for this forum to be a pic supplier. Five should be enough to convey the essence of any single shoot of a Tgirl. I am hereby assuming that limit. No longer will I post more than 5 pics from any one shoot. If they want more, than they can darn well go search them out on the FHG sites like I do. P.S. The whole thing about my legal fee was a joke - that is why there are the smilies with it. Perhaps you are not in a receptive mood for humor at this point in time. Well, that's OK too! I wish you the best of luck in your endeavors. "When the wolf gnaws, smile." - Robert Heinlein
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Ask Jenae anything, just click on this link: http://forum.transladyboy.com/showthread.php?t=6056 Last edited by Jenae LaTorque; 10-10-2009 at 01:31 AM. |
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#25
10-10-2009
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now we can bandy words as to who is write and who is wrong. the fact remains that if you dont want more than say five of any given set floatnig about the internet, its your responsibility to ensure that. reading through the posts again, your request is a fair one. but wouldnt it have been more efficient to first open a dialogue with SSL and the moderators? they could then enforce you request as a rule for content from those sites listed.this way just looks like you are out to get us.
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Go Hard. . .
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#26
10-10-2009
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http://web.newsguy.com/ReaLi5TiX/home.htm http://www.tslist.com/list.html Thanks and kisses, Gabby 
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#27
10-10-2009
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Absolute rubbish. Go read the law before you bother posting. |
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#28
10-10-2009
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#29
10-10-2009
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Frankly, I'm not going to investigate deeply into each and every post, I'm pretty sure I know what content is what but if a few get caught up by mistake, then so be it. |
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#30
10-10-2009
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I differentiate between our free released pics and pay site pics in that the free ones should be a tease. Other companies may have a different ethos. Quote:
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Thanks seanchai |
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#31
10-10-2009
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Still wondering...
I think we (the reasonable ones) are more or less on board with your (also reasonable) requests, but I still wonder about the Meghan pics you deleted.
Shemalepornstars.com is one of the sites you listed in your first post here, and that is where those pics are from via juicyshemales.com, which (I checked) does have some sort of affiliation with grooby sites. As I said, I downloaded them from one of YOUR promotional sites, (in good faith) and out of the 15 free pics, I only posted 6. Are they stolen or used without your permission?? If they were legitimate free pics, I would appreciate them being put back up. They were posted on JSM on Sept. 26. I completely understand your POV, but from mine its very disconcerting to have a post edited like that, especially (apparently) when all the facts are not in. (stolen content or not??) Kinda sucks to have to go back and see whats been edited and why. If my posts (which are fairly well thought out) get edited like that, (half the pics removed) I'm not sure I even want to post anymore. Takes the fun out of things. My whole reason for being here is to enjoy sharing, taking part in discussions and just having fun. I'm not pissed, just somewhat confused.... Post script: Regarding newbies finding this site and then not joining paysites.. As I said, I actively searched the internet for years for photos and only about 8 months ago did I stumble on this site. I assume the same to be true of people like Jenae, who joined fairly recently too, and has also been on the web for years. If its that random, do you really think newbies are coming here in droves? Do you have ANY data to back that assertion? Last edited by violet lightning; 10-10-2009 at 10:18 AM. |
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#32
10-10-2009
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I really think I've posted enough on this and I'm not going to get into tiny details. I told you already I'll look at the site you mentioned. I think the main points are: 1. Posting of content is not a right, it's a privilege. You don't have to post. 2. The content always remains the rights of a producer and just because it can be seen for free elsewhere, doesn't mean that anybody other than the producer or persons they have given permission, has the right to post it elsewhere. 3. If your posts get caught up in some deletions, then deal with it. I'm not investigating every post. As mentioned above, it's a privilege. Sometimes I don't want my shoots given away at all or certainly, some of the select photos. I reserve the right to have removed any content belonging to us, that I want, regardless of the other rules. 4. ... and once again. You don't have to post images. |
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#33
10-10-2009
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I think that Sesame is right. It is time to let this go. He has already demonstrated to me that he is here primarily as a money grubber looking after his own self interest. He has also demonstrated that he isn't very bright and I will be surprised if he survives the increasingly competitive nature of his niche of pornography. He has demonstrated that he has no respect for the forum members, only for them as a possible source of income. His position as a moderator has been only in his own self interest - the numbers show this - his post count of less than 60, is less than 3% of ila's post count. All in all, I believe his statements here have been some very dismal public relations. While I do not subscribe to online pic sites, I do purchase quite a few videos. From now on, I will be on the lookout for Grooby productions and will absolutely never ever purchase one.
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Ask Jenae anything, just click on this link: http://forum.transladyboy.com/showthread.php?t=6056 |
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#34
10-10-2009
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I really don't have to defend my intelligence or my business to you, so I won't bother. One thing I will say though, is that I'm one of the few adult sites that does engage fans, members, models, producers, etc. and aims to produce quality porn with the models. Our reputation is un-surpassed and what we have done as a company to promote respect to transgenders working in the adult industry, is more than any other person or group. Go and google a few interviews with me, if you want to understand a little more about me: "Steven Gallon / seanchai / grooby " I hope to bring some real things of interest to this forum soon, rather than just picture posting. The DVD market is almost dead, so if you want to continue for good transgender porn to be produced, then it's going to be via the internet. Only Grooby is producing TS porn with proper themes and stories. Download and watch LOADS OF FREE TRAILERS - direct from our server at: http://grooby.com/groobycom_dvd.html Thanks for your opinion anyway Janae. Since you made the first attacking post on here and displayed your lack of understanding, it was fairly obvious you'd never see our point of view, no matter what. [ps this image was found on a free site. That doesn't mean I have the right to repost it. The copyright owner can mail me directly and I will remove it immediately.] |
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#35
10-10-2009
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Perhaps it's because interacting with the public via message boards and blogs is my job or maybe I'm just strange. Either way, I feel that Mr Gallon has made a good faith effort to make his position clear while at the same time, actually interacting with the member of this forum in an effort to reach an understanding.
What would Vivid do? Send a letter to SSL and demand that their property be removed with a very real threat of legal action (and precedent would be on their side regardless of the specifics of their product). Copyright law favors the producer/artist. While I understand why people are feeling defensive and perhaps attacked(?) by this series of posts, I really don't think this site is being singled out or individual members are being accused of being thieves. Mr Gallon, as far as doing things "to promote respect for transgenders" - umm.. well that may be true - but is more than either nothing or actively harming really a good talking point?
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- I hate being braver than the guys I date. - Yes, it's me in the avatar Blog: http://laughriotgirl.wordpress.com/ |
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#36
10-10-2009
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Point taken in the way I worded it though. |
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#37
10-10-2009
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Seriously... do a little research before you make comments about something you obviously don't know anything about.
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Kisses, Krissy | Hazel Tucker Blog | Kimber James Blog | Krissy4u - The Blog | Natalia Coxxx Blog |
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#38
10-10-2009
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This reminds me of this old thread that I started...
http://forum.transladyboy.com/showthread.php?t=6026 Take a look at the last post on that thread. Clearly, this kind of post is damaging to the industry and has no place on a 'legitimate' forum such as this [is]. This post should be removed and the person warned against making further posts of this nature and banned if he/she persists. Hey, I get it... you guys want free porn. It's human nature to want things for free. That doesn't make it right OR legal. The fact of the matter is that in posting mass amounts of ripped content, you don't often realize how you're hurting the models and the sites that provide you the content to 'get your rocks off.' As an independent producer and a VERY careful keeper of all kinds of statistics and records for my site, I KNOW for a fact, when I see a sharp decline in sales, invariably, I can trace it back to either a forum with rips from my site or pw sharing. I think Seanchai has done a pretty good job here of defending his stance and hardly needs me to weigh in on the subject but, what really irritates me about some of the responses is the 'justifications' for posting ripped content. Instead of making up illogical (and sometimes just plain stupid) reasons to justify your actions, you should just say, 'I'm selfish and don't want to pay for porn.' OR, 'I want to look important and that's why I post ripped content.' This last one is personally the reason I feel most people post excessive ripped content. They like the replies of gratitude and it helps them think that what they're doing is OK. Just my two cents. Because, really, why else would you care if you're asked to limit your postings to 3 pictures from one set?
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Kisses, Krissy | Hazel Tucker Blog | Kimber James Blog | Krissy4u - The Blog | Natalia Coxxx Blog Last edited by GroobyKrissy; 10-10-2009 at 04:06 PM. |
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#39
10-10-2009
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__________________
- I hate being braver than the guys I date. - Yes, it's me in the avatar Blog: http://laughriotgirl.wordpress.com/ |
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#40
10-10-2009
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If you knew anything at all about the person you're speaking about, you'd know that: A: Grooby Productions (with him at the helm) is probably THE company when it comes to caring for and furthering the careers of their models... even when they decide to strike out on their own. Although the company is obviously a business, I have personally seen the company make decisions not based on increasing the bottom line but making a decision based on maintaining integrity and honesty in an industry which, quite frankly, is often lacking. B: While yes, more TS sites come on the market, Grooby Productions has remained on the forefront of producing content in this niche and still has some of the best sites around. Your implication that you know something about the business model or health of the industry as a whole just shows your complete narcissistic tendencies and proclivity to hear yourself speak. C: Demeaning someone's intelligence and resorting to purposefully calling them names are oftentimes the act of desperation or lack of civility... both which you have shown here. Seriously... does Jenae's post remind anyone of a disgruntled 3rd grader? D: Ummm... yeah... why should he not see forums like this as a potential source of income with potential customers? I would actually say it would be negligent not to. He does run a BUSINESS after all. So, why is it a bad thing to see Members here as potential customers? You state an IQ of over 150 yet fail to grasp this basic business principle? E: Position as a Moderator? Completely irrelevant. Nice that you took the time to calculate out the statistics (again... tooting your own intellectual horn), but WTF? I smell sour grapes that he is and you're not. F: I'm quite sure that the company is not losing any vast amounts of money by you not purchasing their DVD's (which by the way... we call them DVD's in this day and age) since you've "...never contributed a single penny to a paysite directly." I find it difficult to believe, given this mindset that you are the owner of a staggering library of legitimately paid for DVD's. Anyway... this is a little more sarcastic and a bit on the rude side so for those of you readers not involved, I apologize. Typically, I don't get into personally addressing someone negatively but Jenae's statements are just plain uncalled for, illogical, and completely disrespectful for someone who is VERY WELL respected in the TS Industry. Pretty easy to do a little searching and come to the conclusion that Seanchai's a stand-up guy running one of the most honest, respected, and best business in TS porn.
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Kisses, Krissy | Hazel Tucker Blog | Kimber James Blog | Krissy4u - The Blog | Natalia Coxxx Blog Last edited by GroobyKrissy; 10-10-2009 at 04:46 PM. |
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#41
10-10-2009
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If you feel so strongly that Mold's post should be removed then I suggest that you use the Report Post button in the message box. The instructions that follow will tell you what to do. Last edited by ila; 10-10-2009 at 08:46 PM. |
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#42
10-10-2009
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Moderation in ALL ( ? ) things
I have to say I am, like Jenae, somewhat puzzled as to what the qualifications are for a member to become a Moderator. It would seem no co-incidence that Seanchai got himself appointed Moderator for Freebies. As such I can hardly think he can claim to be impartial ( an absolute pre-requisite, I would have thought ), without vested interests.
One aspect which seems to me curious. It seems that Seanchai is against members of this Forum liberally posting pictures which have already been downladed by paid-up members of any of his listed sites. Surely it is up to him to identify and contact those paid-up members who have made available the sets for free. Clearly their paid for membership makes them feel entitled to do what they want with the pictures. Make no mistake about it, these pictures were not 'stolen ' form the sites in the first place, so how can members of this Forum be accused by Seanchai of handling ' stolen goods '? I'm also pretty unhappy about the possibility that a Moderator may have abused his powers or position. Perhaps Seanchai might care to comment ?  this does not present a pretty picture at all.
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Bella |
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#43
10-10-2009
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If I, as your friend or even casual acquaintance steal a car and give it to you saying, 'I own this car and I'm giving it to you.' You have a decision to make. Either you accept the car, no questions asked or you start to delve a little deeper because this would be just too good of a thing to get for free. Now, if you choose choice A and then resell the vehicle, and get caught selling it... guess what... you're trafficking in stolen goods. Doesn't matter if you knew the car was stolen or not. Now, depending on circumstances and the strength of your defense... you may get off easy claiming ignorance. But, should you get a jury who doesn't believe you... tough cookies. Due diligence. I'm not saying that every single picture on here has to be accounted for BUT.. C'MON people... let's be honest here! Most, of the content here is posted WITHOUT the express permission of the companies in question. This, cut and dry, is copyright infringement by the PERSON who posts it, REGARDLESS of the source. I still find it incredibly irrelevant about who is Moderator and abuse of power or whatever this nonsense is. Unless you're the owner of this forum, why in the world do you have any say or interest AT ALL in who is a Moderator and who is not? Where in the Forum Bible does it say that Moderators have to be impartial? Folks... let's not mistake MODERATION with CENSORSHIP... these are two completely different words with entirely different meanings. A responsible Moderator should first and foremost have the good of the Forum in mind. I think everyone would agree that letting word get out that this Forum has Members posting large amounts of content from various sites without their permission would probably be more of a bad thing than a helpful thing. Best solved by making a polite request (done) and culling out overly populated threads (done). That's good moderation. Now, if Seanchai suddenly goes and starts deleting people's opinions and posts and such... that's CENSORSHIP and i would agree... an abuse of his Moderator privilege. But, that's not the case here. I think people are just sorry to see some of their free porn go bye bye. Tough beans. If you really want to see more than three pictures... stop eating at Burger King every day and Starbucks every morning and save up 30 or 40 bucks to join the site for a month. Download all the content you want for yourself to enjoy... just don't post it for someone else to get without paying for it. I, as the copyright holder of my pictures have the right to take them down (or make the request) whenever and wherever I see them posted without my permission. I suspect that Seanchai was made Moderator more out of convenience by the owner(s) of this Forum who probably doesn't have the time or energy to view every single thread to make sure the content there is legitimate or not. Actually, I think this is entirely MORE preferable than finding tons of ripped content on the forum and taking legal action, no?
__________________
Kisses, Krissy | Hazel Tucker Blog | Kimber James Blog | Krissy4u - The Blog | Natalia Coxxx Blog Last edited by GroobyKrissy; 10-10-2009 at 08:58 PM. |
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#44
10-10-2009
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In effect, what this Member is doing would be akin to a person sitting on the front doorstep of a auto dealer and telling people as they walk in, 'Psst... why pay for a car when I know of a place where you can get all the cars you want for free... oh, by the way... there's probably one or two stolen cars mixed in there but who cares.' I think any reasonable person would call this 'damaging.' Hey, if you want to do the homework to find all the little sites on the web that cater to the free porn people, then by all means, go ahead and do so. By leaving a post like this up in a public place, the Forum is basically 'looking the other way' at letting people post links to places to download stolen content. Stolen content IS bad for the industry. Period. I don't think (at least I hope) I need to go into the book of reasons why that's true...
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Kisses, Krissy | Hazel Tucker Blog | Kimber James Blog | Krissy4u - The Blog | Natalia Coxxx Blog |
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#45
10-10-2009
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Secondly not all tube sites have stolen content. Some do, but even then not all content is stolen. Thirdly this site does not tolerate stolen content nor are links to tube sites allowed. It states this in the rules. |
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#46
10-10-2009
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I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that probably 99.9% of all tube and torrent sites have stolen content on them. They simply couldn't exist as a business model without it. Even if SOME of the content is stolen (hey, I just robbed a bank but I left some of the money there so everything's ok) for a particular site, should this Forum be in the business of encouraging people to go there or making it easier for persons to find the site? I think not... that is, if you truly believe in the rules you've set up.
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Kisses, Krissy | Hazel Tucker Blog | Kimber James Blog | Krissy4u - The Blog | Natalia Coxxx Blog Last edited by GroobyKrissy; 10-10-2009 at 09:32 PM. |
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#47
10-10-2009
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We site owners take it on good faith that you're going to use our sites in accordance to the TERMS and CONDITIONS just as people who join sites take it on good faith that they're going to get their monies worth. Most people do follow the rules.
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Kisses, Krissy | Hazel Tucker Blog | Kimber James Blog | Krissy4u - The Blog | Natalia Coxxx Blog |
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#48
10-10-2009
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Folks -
I'm just not seeing the need for ruffled feathers here. Seanchai WANTS people to repost his stuff (within reason), to talk about his (and others) models, to discuss the quality content and nature of the business. "Within reason" being the operative words. He understands that this is an insular, but growing, market. He knows that a few pics here and there is good for business. But he also knows that most people won't pay for something if they don't have to. It has to be a balancing act - come down to hard and you alienate your fans, allow unrestricted posting of content and you are ultimately running some sort of porn charity. If you read the first post, what is being asked is quite understandable and reasonable.
__________________
- I hate being braver than the guys I date. - Yes, it's me in the avatar Blog: http://laughriotgirl.wordpress.com/ |
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#49
10-10-2009
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This thread is getting off topic. It was originally intended to ask members here to quit posting more than 3 pictures from any one set from a Grooby site. This is a reasonable request and is the thrust of the thread. |
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#50
10-11-2009
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hmm
As a Producer myself I have to agree with Seanchai about posting "excessive" amounts of pictures from a set. I DO NOT have a problem with a fan posting some pictures to reply to a thread about something like "favorite shemale" "girls in glasses" ETC ETC HOWEVER I do NOT want someone posting excessive amounts from a set because I only usually release 15 pictures from a set for my affiliates..........Fans using pictures on boards is different to someone who is an affiliate and is providing traffic for that reason to my website. Those affiliates are usually providing a text link to my website and I am going to hopefully get traffic from that whereas a FAN posting pictures is usually more for "sharing" than for promotion, THOUGH sometimes it goes hand in hand.
So I LOVE LOVE to see and read threads about myself and the ladies I shoot but I hope people can realize how much money I spend to run a website and hold back with excessive posting of pictures from myself or my models sets. Hugs Wendy NOW GET TO JACKING OFF LOL |
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