Posting Of Pay Site Images - All Read.

[violet lightning]

I think we (the reasonable ones) are more or less on board with your (also reasonable) requests, but I still wonder about the Meghan pics you deleted.
Shemalepornstars.com is one of the sites you listed in your first post here, and that is where those pics are from via juicyshemales.com, which (I checked) does have some sort of affiliation with grooby sites.

As I said, I downloaded them from one of YOUR promotional sites, (in good faith) and out of the 15 free pics, I only posted 6.
Are they stolen or used without your permission?? If they were legitimate free pics, I would appreciate them being put back up. They were posted on JSM on Sept. 26.

I completely understand your POV, but from mine its very disconcerting to have a post edited like that, especially (apparently) when all the facts are not in. (stolen content or not??)

Kinda sucks to have to go back and see whats been edited and why. If my posts (which are fairly well thought out) get edited like that, (half the pics removed) I'm not sure I even want to post anymore. Takes the fun out of things. My whole reason for being here is to enjoy sharing, taking part in discussions and just having fun.
I'm not pissed, just somewhat confused....

Post script: Regarding newbies finding this site and then not joining paysites.. As I said, I actively searched the internet for years for photos and only about 8 months ago did I stumble on this site. I assume the same to be true of people like Jenae, who joined fairly recently too, and has also been on the web for years. If its that random, do you really think newbies are coming here in droves? Do you have ANY data to back that assertion?

[seanchai]

Originally Posted by violet lightning

I think we (the reasonable ones) are more or less on board with your (also reasonable) requests, but I still wonder about the Meghan pics you deleted.
Shemalepornstars.com is one of the sites you listed in your first post here, and that is where those pics are from via juicyshemales.com, which (I checked) does have some sort of affiliation with grooby sites.

As I said, I downloaded them from one of YOUR promotional sites, (in good faith) and out of the 15 free pics, I only posted 6.
Are they stolen or used without your permission?? If they were legitimate free pics, I would appreciate them being put back up. They were posted on JSM on Sept. 26.

I completely understand your POV, but from mine its very disconcerting to have a post edited like that, especially (apparently) when all the facts are not in. (stolen content or not??)

Kinda sucks to have to go back and see whats been edited and why. If my posts (which are fairly well thought out) get edited like that, (half the pics removed) I'm not sure I even want to post anymore. Takes the fun out of things. My whole reason for being here is to enjoy sharing, taking part in discussions and just having fun.
I'm not pissed, just somewhat confused....

Post script: Regarding newbies finding this site and then not joining paysites.. As I said, I actively searched the internet for years for photos and only about 8 months ago did I stumble on this site. I assume the same to be true of people like Jenae, who joined fairly recently too, and has also been on the web for years. If its that random, do you really think newbies are coming here in droves? Do you have ANY data to back that assertion?

Violet,
I really think I've posted enough on this and I'm not going to get into tiny details. I told you already I'll look at the site you mentioned.
I think the main points are:

1. Posting of content is not a right, it's a privilege. You don't have to post.

2. The content always remains the rights of a producer and just because it can be seen for free elsewhere, doesn't mean that anybody other than the producer or persons they have given permission, has the right to post it elsewhere.

3. If your posts get caught up in some deletions, then deal with it. I'm not investigating every post. As mentioned above, it's a privilege. Sometimes I don't want my shoots given away at all or certainly, some of the select photos. I reserve the right to have removed any content belonging to us, that I want, regardless of the other rules.

4. ... and once again. You don't have to post images.

[Jenae LaTorque]

I think that Sesame is right. It is time to let this go. He has already demonstrated to me that he is here primarily as a money grubber looking after his own self interest. He has also demonstrated that he isn't very bright and I will be surprised if he survives the increasingly competitive nature of his niche of pornography. He has demonstrated that he has no respect for the forum members, only for them as a possible source of income. His position as a moderator has been only in his own self interest - the numbers show this - his post count of less than 60, is less than 3% of ila's post count. All in all, I believe his statements here have been some very dismal public relations. While I do not subscribe to online pic sites, I do purchase quite a few videos. From now on, I will be on the lookout for Grooby productions and will absolutely never ever purchase one.

[seanchai]

Originally Posted by Jenae LaTorque

I think that Sesame is right. It is time to let this go. He has already demonstrated to me that he is here primarily as a money grubber looking after his own self interest. He has also demonstrated that he isn't very bright and I will be surprised if he survives the increasingly competitive nature of his niche of pornography. He has demonstrated that he has no respect for the forum members, only for them as a possible source of income. His position as a moderator has been only in his own self interest - the numbers show this - his post count of less than 60, is less than 3% of ila's post count. All in all, I believe his statements here have been some very dismal public relations. While I do not subscribe to online pic sites, I do purchase quite a few videos. From now on, I will be on the lookout for Grooby productions and will absolutely never ever purchase one.

Sour grapes or your lack of intelligence to grasp the situation or legalities?
I really don't have to defend my intelligence or my business to you, so I won't bother.
One thing I will say though, is that I'm one of the few adult sites that does engage fans, members, models, producers, etc. and aims to produce quality porn with the models. Our reputation is un-surpassed and what we have done as a company to promote respect to transgenders working in the adult industry, is more than any other person or group.
Go and google a few interviews with me, if you want to understand a little more about me:
"Steven Gallon / seanchai / grooby "

I hope to bring some real things of interest to this forum soon, rather than just picture posting.

The DVD market is almost dead, so if you want to continue for good transgender porn to be produced, then it's going to be via the internet. Only Grooby is producing TS porn with proper themes and stories.
Download and watch LOADS OF FREE TRAILERS - direct from our server at:

http://grooby.com/groobycom_dvd.html

Thanks for your opinion anyway Janae. Since you made the first attacking post on here and displayed your lack of understanding, it was fairly obvious you'd never see our point of view, no matter what.

[ps this image was found on a free site. That doesn't mean I have the right to repost it. The copyright owner can mail me directly and I will remove it immediately.]

[Bionca]

Perhaps it's because interacting with the public via message boards and blogs is my job or maybe I'm just strange. Either way, I feel that Mr Gallon has made a good faith effort to make his position clear while at the same time, actually interacting with the member of this forum in an effort to reach an understanding.

What would Vivid do? Send a letter to SSL and demand that their property be removed with a very real threat of legal action (and precedent would be on their side regardless of the specifics of their product). Copyright law favors the producer/artist.

While I understand why people are feeling defensive and perhaps attacked(?) by this series of posts, I really don't think this site is being singled out or individual members are being accused of being thieves.

Mr Gallon, as far as doing things "to promote respect for transgenders" - umm.. well that may be true - but is more than either nothing or actively harming really a good talking point?

[seanchai]

Originally Posted by Bionca

Mr Gallon, as far as doing things "to promote respect for transgenders" - umm.. well that may be true - but is more than either nothing or actively harming really a good talking point?

Well this post isn't really about that, so I don't want to really derail it to something it's not. If you find any of my interviews or postings on other boards ... or the way we work with models, promote them, etc. you can find out more there.
Point taken in the way I worded it though.

[Bionca]

Originally Posted by seanchai

Well this post isn't really about that, so I don't want to really derail it to something it's not. If you find any of my interviews or postings on other boards ... or the way we work with models, promote them, etc. you can find out more there.
Point taken in the way I worded it though.

You are right, discussing that would be a massive derail. I took your advice awile ago actually and read some interviews with you. That's one of the reasons I'm supporting your stance here today. However, since you brought it up - I have posted a little bit from one of your interviews on my blog.

[GroobyKrissy]

Originally Posted by Jenae LaTorque

I think that Sesame is right. It is time to let this go. He has already demonstrated to me that he is here primarily as a money grubber looking after his own self interest. He has also demonstrated that he isn't very bright and I will be surprised if he survives the increasingly competitive nature of his niche of pornography. He has demonstrated that he has no respect for the forum members, only for them as a possible source of income. His position as a moderator has been only in his own self interest - the numbers show this - his post count of less than 60, is less than 3% of ila's post count. All in all, I believe his statements here have been some very dismal public relations. While I do not subscribe to online pic sites, I do purchase quite a few videos. From now on, I will be on the lookout for Grooby productions and will absolutely never ever purchase one.

I cannot believe the sheer lack of facts behind these statements.

If you knew anything at all about the person you're speaking about, you'd know that:

A: Grooby Productions (with him at the helm) is probably THE company when it comes to caring for and furthering the careers of their models... even when they decide to strike out on their own. Although the company is obviously a business, I have personally seen the company make decisions not based on increasing the bottom line but making a decision based on maintaining integrity and honesty in an industry which, quite frankly, is often lacking.

B: While yes, more TS sites come on the market, Grooby Productions has remained on the forefront of producing content in this niche and still has some of the best sites around. Your implication that you know something about the business model or health of the industry as a whole just shows your complete narcissistic tendencies and proclivity to hear yourself speak.

C: Demeaning someone's intelligence and resorting to purposefully calling them names are oftentimes the act of desperation or lack of civility... both which you have shown here. Seriously... does Jenae's post remind anyone of a disgruntled 3rd grader?

D: Ummm... yeah... why should he not see forums like this as a potential source of income with potential customers? I would actually say it would be negligent not to. He does run a BUSINESS after all. So, why is it a bad thing to see Members here as potential customers? You state an IQ of over 150 yet fail to grasp this basic business principle?

E: Position as a Moderator? Completely irrelevant. Nice that you took the time to calculate out the statistics (again... tooting your own intellectual horn), but WTF? I smell sour grapes that he is and you're not.

F: I'm quite sure that the company is not losing any vast amounts of money by you not purchasing their DVD's (which by the way... we call them DVD's in this day and age) since you've "...never contributed a single penny to a paysite directly." I find it difficult to believe, given this mindset that you are the owner of a staggering library of legitimately paid for DVD's.

Anyway... this is a little more sarcastic and a bit on the rude side so for those of you readers not involved, I apologize. Typically, I don't get into personally addressing someone negatively but Jenae's statements are just plain uncalled for, illogical, and completely disrespectful for someone who is VERY WELL respected in the TS Industry. Pretty easy to do a little searching and come to the conclusion that Seanchai's a stand-up guy running one of the most honest, respected, and best business in TS porn.

[Be_my_nude]

I have to say I am, like Jenae, somewhat puzzled as to what the qualifications are for a member to become a Moderator. It would seem no co-incidence that Seanchai got himself appointed Moderator for Freebies. As such I can hardly think he can claim to be impartial ( an absolute pre-requisite, I would have thought ), without vested interests.

One aspect which seems to me curious. It seems that Seanchai is against members of this Forum liberally posting pictures which have already been downladed by paid-up members of any of his listed sites. Surely it is up to him to identify and contact those paid-up members who have made available the sets for free. Clearly their paid for membership makes them feel entitled to do what they want with the pictures. Make no mistake about it, these pictures were not 'stolen ' form the sites in the first place, so how can members of this Forum be accused by Seanchai of handling ' stolen goods '?

I'm also pretty unhappy about the possibility that a Moderator may have abused his powers or position. Perhaps Seanchai might care to comment ?

this does not present a pretty picture at all.

[GroobyKrissy]

Originally Posted by Be_my_nude

I have to say I am, like Jenae, somewhat puzzled as to what the qualifications are for a member to become a Moderator. It would seem no co-incidence that Seanchai got himself appointed Moderator for Freebies. As such I can hardly think he can claim to be impartial ( an absolute pre-requisite, I would have thought ), without vested interests.

One aspect which seems to me curious. It seems that Seanchai is against members of this Forum liberally posting pictures which have already been downladed by paid-up members of any of his listed sites. Surely it is up to him to identify and contact those paid-up members who have made available the sets for free. Clearly their paid for membership makes them feel entitled to do what they want with the pictures. Make no mistake about it, these pictures were not 'stolen ' form the sites in the first place, so how can members of this Forum be accused by Seanchai of handling ' stolen goods '?

I'm also pretty unhappy about the possibility that a Moderator may have abused his powers or position. Perhaps Seanchai might care to comment ?

this does not present a pretty picture at all.

Wow... I find it entirely puzzling that people are so mistaken about the law... I thought that CSI and the ilk was the most watched show in the country for a reason. Let's clarify...

If I, as your friend or even casual acquaintance steal a car and give it to you saying, 'I own this car and I'm giving it to you.' You have a decision to make. Either you accept the car, no questions asked or you start to delve a little deeper because this would be just too good of a thing to get for free.

Now, if you choose choice A and then resell the vehicle, and get caught selling it... guess what... you're trafficking in stolen goods. Doesn't matter if you knew the car was stolen or not. Now, depending on circumstances and the strength of your defense... you may get off easy claiming ignorance. But, should you get a jury who doesn't believe you... tough cookies. Due diligence.

I'm not saying that every single picture on here has to be accounted for BUT.. C'MON people... let's be honest here! Most, of the content here is posted WITHOUT the express permission of the companies in question. This, cut and dry, is copyright infringement by the PERSON who posts it, REGARDLESS of the source.

I still find it incredibly irrelevant about who is Moderator and abuse of power or whatever this nonsense is. Unless you're the owner of this forum, why in the world do you have any say or interest AT ALL in who is a Moderator and who is not? Where in the Forum Bible does it say that Moderators have to be impartial? Folks... let's not mistake MODERATION with CENSORSHIP... these are two completely different words with entirely different meanings. A responsible Moderator should first and foremost have the good of the Forum in mind. I think everyone would agree that letting word get out that this Forum has Members posting large amounts of content from various sites without their permission would probably be more of a bad thing than a helpful thing. Best solved by making a polite request (done) and culling out overly populated threads (done). That's good moderation. Now, if Seanchai suddenly goes and starts deleting people's opinions and posts and such... that's CENSORSHIP and i would agree... an abuse of his Moderator privilege. But, that's not the case here. I think people are just sorry to see some of their free porn go bye bye. Tough beans. If you really want to see more than three pictures... stop eating at Burger King every day and Starbucks every morning and save up 30 or 40 bucks to join the site for a month. Download all the content you want for yourself to enjoy... just don't post it for someone else to get without paying for it.

I, as the copyright holder of my pictures have the right to take them down (or make the request) whenever and wherever I see them posted without my permission. I suspect that Seanchai was made Moderator more out of convenience by the owner(s) of this Forum who probably doesn't have the time or energy to view every single thread to make sure the content there is legitimate or not. Actually, I think this is entirely MORE preferable than finding tons of ripped content on the forum and taking legal action, no?

[GroobyKrissy]

Originally Posted by Be_my_nude

Surely it is up to him to identify and contact those paid-up members who have made available the sets for free.

C'mon... really? Do I really need to explain why this is simply an unreasonable and impossible expectation? Are you really the bronzed beauty that is your avatar?

We site owners take it on good faith that you're going to use our sites in accordance to the TERMS and CONDITIONS just as people who join sites take it on good faith that they're going to get their monies worth. Most people do follow the rules.

[Bionca]

Folks -

I'm just not seeing the need for ruffled feathers here. Seanchai WANTS people to repost his stuff (within reason), to talk about his (and others) models, to discuss the quality content and nature of the business. "Within reason" being the operative words.

He understands that this is an insular, but growing, market. He knows that a few pics here and there is good for business. But he also knows that most people won't pay for something if they don't have to. It has to be a balancing act - come down to hard and you alienate your fans, allow unrestricted posting of content and you are ultimately running some sort of porn charity. If you read the first post, what is being asked is quite understandable and reasonable.

[Be_my_nude]

Originally Posted by GroobyKrissy

C'mon... really? Do I really need to explain why this is simply an unreasonable and impossible expectation? Are you really the bronzed beauty that is your avatar?

We site owners take it on good faith that you're going to use our sites in accordance to the TERMS and CONDITIONS just as people who join sites take it on good faith that they're going to get their monies worth. Most people do follow the rules.

Of course it is an unreasonable expectation - as unreasonable as expecting free sets on a Pay-site not to go wandering off into the WWW whole or in part to become available to eager porn-hunters. I think all I'm saying is that the responsibility for monitoring and preventing such abuse is two-sided, and that an appeal for principled rehandling of material is a bit like farting upwind.

Oh, my Avatar ? Well I couldn't find one of myself good-looking enough not to attract guffaws, so when I saw a one that was the near mirro-image of my daughter, I thought I'd use that ! A male friend of mine commented that I had a bit of a brass cheek to join a Transexual Forum, so I got someone to add the bronze ! Glad you like it. I think my daughter's lovely.

[seanchai]

Originally Posted by Be_my_nude

I have to say I am, like Jenae, somewhat puzzled as to what the qualifications are for a member to become a Moderator. It would seem no co-incidence that Seanchai got himself appointed Moderator for Freebies. As such I can hardly think he can claim to be impartial ( an absolute pre-requisite, I would have thought ), without vested interests.

I've had mod. status here almost all of this year. You'd have to ask the owner why.
I will say, I've no interest in moderaring anything other than stolen content or links to stolen content.

Originally Posted by Be_my_nude

One aspect which seems to me curious. It seems that Seanchai is against members of this Forum liberally posting pictures which have already been downladed by paid-up members of any of his listed sites. Surely it is up to him to identify and contact those paid-up members who have made available the sets for free. Clearly their paid for membership makes them feel entitled to do what they want with the pictures. Make no mistake about it, these pictures were not 'stolen ' form the sites in the first place, so how can members of this Forum be accused by Seanchai of handling ' stolen goods '?

Surely even a Yorkshireman can't be that clueless? This doesn't even deserve an answer. UPLOADED content is the responbility of the uploader and the site. Our sites have clear rules and Terms of Service.

Originally Posted by Be_my_nude

I'm also pretty unhappy about the possibility that a Moderator may have abused his powers or position. Perhaps Seanchai might care to comment ?

Not really.