Are There Transsexuals here who have successfully married?

[rockabilly]

Why should the state or government say who can or cant be married. Dont get me wrong i want to have a Tgirlfriend and spend my life w/ her but i feel like "big brother" should butt out of our life. It should be enough that i want to share a life w/ a Tgirl that a piece of paper shouldn't hold us back. Maybe i'm wrong but Marrige is just a word for the ceremony of joining two people together.

[transjen]

Originally Posted by rockabilly

Why should the state or government say who can or cant be married. Dont get me wrong i want to have a Tgirlfriend and spend my life w/ her but i feel like "big brother" should butt out of our life. It should be enough that i want to share a life w/ a Tgirl that a piece of paper shouldn't hold us back. Maybe i'm wrong but Marrige is just a word for the ceremony of joining two people together.

Sadly that's the way things are, The marriage will not be legal unless the Tgirl has SRS and gets her new birth cert, Then the marriage is legal. But the sad part is a Tgirl could marry a woman. Yeah makes no sense to me either Jennifer

[racquel]

Originally Posted by rockabilly

Why should the state or government say who can or cant be married.

They shouldn't, but apparently the majority of this country doesn't agree. Old white fundamentalists outnumber the LGBTs by a lot -- and they always vote.

But if everybody just had their own little ceremony, gave each other rings, and just said they were married without doing a bunch of paperwork things would be a lot simpler in life anyway.

[fionahavelock]

i don't really agree with that term.. well of course people getting married also for many reason, protections, rights and also benefit. such as divorce protection, medical, social security and so on.
so i believe in legal marriage then just declare it..
it's just my thought...

fi

[CreativeMind]

Originally Posted by racquel

They shouldn't, but apparently the majority of this country doesn't agree. Old white fundamentalists outnumber the LGBTs by a lot -- and they always vote.

Well, I wouldn't blame it all on "old white fundamentalists". A recent Gallup poll showed support for same-sex marriage was still only hovering in the 40-44% region, so it's still NOT in the majority. And last time I checked, Barack Obama DEFINITELY wouldn't qualify as an "old white fundamentalist" and let the record show that he's gone on the record as being against same-sex marriage, too.

The problem for the LGBT community is the same problem they've had all along -- it's over the emotional charged use of the word "marriage", which is still holds back most of Middle America from throwing their full support behind the movement. Middle America is still religious at heart, no matter what their age and no matter which way they lean politically (Left or Right). Basically, most Americans have no problem with same-sex couples, they have no problems with them getting legal rights, but the flat out truth is that they ALSO don't want same-sex couples destroying what they feel are their religious beliefs, and they absolutely don't want to see same-sex marriages impeding on their churches or their personal rights.

At that point, public support drops drastically. As NEWSWEEK noted not too long ago (and this bears out the Gallup poll numbers): "Americans continue to find civil unions for gays and lesbians more palatable than full-fledged marriage. Fifty-five percent of respondents favor legally sanctioned unions or partnerships, but only 39 percent support marriage rights."

Originally Posted by racquel

But if everybody just had their own little ceremony, gave each other rings, and just said they were married without doing a bunch of paperwork things would be a lot simpler in life anyway.

Except that brings forth the argument that those who are AGAINST same-sex marriage will always pull out: if being together is REALLY what same-sex couples are after...if that's REALLY their end goal and they are just looking to be a committed couple...then WHY do you even need a church ceremony to validate your commitment to each other? Hey, if you want to be a couple that's committed for life, then fine -- stay at home, exchange some rings in private, open some champagne and toast each other, and congrats -- you're now committed to each other. Go have a nice life. NO ONE is stopping same-sex couples from doing ANY of that.

Which brings us full circle to what I posted above. As an issue, same-sex marriage is NOT about love and commitment or anything even remotely sentimental like that. Anyone arguing that is just putting up a smokescreen, trying to tug at the heart strings to make same-sex marriage seem more palatable to the general public at large. The truth is this battle is ALL about the legal rights and side benefits/perks that come from slapping the word "marriage" on, and that's what everyone is scrambling over.

[megawatty101]

Originally Posted by racquel

They shouldn't, but apparently the majority of this country doesn't agree. Old white fundamentalists outnumber the LGBTs by a lot -- and they always vote.

But if everybody just had their own little ceremony, gave each other rings, and just said they were married without doing a bunch of paperwork things would be a lot simpler in life anyway.

How do you know it's just old white fundies...I've seen the results for other ethnic groups on their prop 8 votes. If anything, whites discriminate quite a bit less than others.

[g&c]

great stuff

[racquel]

Originally Posted by megawatty101

How do you know it's just old white fundies...

I suppose that was unfair. I just remember what it was like hanging around my grandparents in Florida with all those old time religion WWII vets when I was younger. Interesting demographic.

I don't think it's possible to have a rational conversation with a married man over 50 who doesn't drink.

[megawatty101]

Originally Posted by racquel

I suppose that was unfair. I just remember what it was like hanging around my grandparents in Florida with all those old time religion WWII vets when I was younger. Interesting demographic.

I don't think it's possible to have a rational conversation with a married man over 50 who doesn't drink.

That's true. And many stereotypes have elements of truth to them. I guess I'm defensive, one day I'll be an old white...agnostic, cranky vet.

[hankhavelock]

I guess the problem is supply and demand - and in that regard it's bad news for trans*women. Yes, many want to have sex with trans*women, but when shit hits the fan they go back to their cis*mothers, their cis*wives, their cis*girlfriends and their cis*life.

I don't really interact much with guys like me who like girls like she, but I judge that the majority is primarily in this for quick sex (with hoodles of guilt), longer lasting sex (with less guilt) and a few gets the hang of it...

I do, how ever, occasionally chat with guys who cry that it is so hard to find a trans*woman.

I never GOT that point! Nothing is easier. Nothing is easier than connecting with people with whom you share a common way... I know, I'm surrounded by transsexual darlings as I live in Asia, BUT I've worked for it myself too, and I'm sure it'd be both amazing and challenging. However, I'm confident that I'd be able to do the same in the boring West if I really had to go back there - like Europe or America... I have very little intention of. Surely, the democrazy is claimed to be less ... crazy... the social services are better in Europe and the economic fascism is still considered Gospel in America... but why do you all feel so HAPPY there in the midst of such a violent part of the world? With your guns and your gangs and your hatred?

Ok, I'm again getting ahead of myself...

My point just was, that finding and connecting to a trans*woman is not difficult! No matter where! She's there, if YOU are, my man, whomever you are. But DO treasure her! Always!

H

[fionahavelock]

Originally Posted by hankhavelock

I guess the problem is supply and demand - and in that regard it's bad news for trans*women. Yes, many want to have sex with trans*women, but when shit hits the fan they go back to their cis*mothers, their cis*wives, their cis*girlfriends and their cis*life.

I don't really interact much with guys like me who like girls like she, but I judge that the majority is primarily in this for quick sex (with hoodles of guilt), longer lasting sex (with less guilt) and a few gets the hang of it...

I do, how ever, occasionally chat with guys who cry that it is so hard to find a trans*woman.

I never GOT that point! Nothing is easier. Nothing is easier than connecting with people with whom you share a common way... I know, I'm surrounded by transsexual darlings as I live in Asia, BUT I've worked for it myself too, and I'm sure it'd be both amazing and challenging. However, I'm confident that I'd be able to do the same in the boring West if I really had to go back there - like Europe or America... I have very little intention of. Surely, the democrazy is claimed to be less ... crazy... the social services are better in Europe and the economic fascism is still considered Gospel in America... but why do you all feel so HAPPY there in the midst of such a violent part of the world? With your guns and your gangs and your hatred?

Ok, I'm again getting ahead of myself...

My point just was, that finding and connecting to a trans*woman is not difficult! No matter where! She's there, if YOU are, my man, whomever you are. But DO treasure her! Always!

H

sorry but your post really lost me..
is still about transexual happily marriage?
or is it changed to be men worshipping transexual girls?
am i deluded???

fi

[Rambam]

Originally Posted by rockabilly

Why should the state or government say who can or cant be married. Dont get me wrong i want to have a Tgirlfriend and spend my life w/ her but i feel like "big brother" should butt out of our life. It should be enough that i want to share a life w/ a Tgirl that a piece of paper shouldn't hold us back. Maybe i'm wrong but Marrige is just a word for the ceremony of joining two people together.

Don't get me wrong, but I didn't know that all countries all over the world do allow a homosexual marriage. Don't know where you live, mate.
And, this question comes from a Filipino tgirl, not from a European or American tgirl. You talk about that topic as would it be an ordinary marriage between a genetic woman and man.

[darkstargemini]

> strange but true there r transgenders who i no that r married have kids ah yes a real job r accepted by sociaty so why would u ask i guess u don,t get out a lot or u need to listen learn understand and that,s all i got to say about that.

[desirouspussy]

I was once actually proposed to by a lesbian lover. Ironically, it was my fast growing fascination for the third gender that made me turn her down.

Same gender marriage has been legal in my country for several years and there's nothing to stop a man or woman from having a transsexual woman as his or her wife. Perhaps it will happen to me one day.:D

[tslust]

Originally Posted by fionahavelock

marriage is a human right, not a heterosexual privilege

That's great, I'm gonna have to remember that one.

Originally Posted by racquel

They shouldn't, but apparently the majority of this country doesn't agree. Old white fundamentalists outnumber the LGBTs by a lot -- and they always vote.

The core people involved with the "Defense of Marriage" probably are driven by their sense of morality. However the majority of its supporters, I believe, are motivated by fear. Fear of changing events, fear of outsiders, and fear of what they do not understand.

Originally Posted by racquel

But if everybody just had their own little ceremony, gave each other rings, and just said they were married without doing a bunch of paperwork things would be a lot simpler in life anyway.

The biggest reason for all that paperwork is, money. You have to pay all those fees, pay to get your marriage license, and pay for the actual ceremony. Even if you are married at th courthouse, you still have to pay the judge and court for their time.

[Rambam]

Originally Posted by darkstargemini

> strange but true there r transgenders who i no that r married have kids ah yes a real job r accepted by sociaty so why would u ask i guess u don,t get out a lot or u need to listen learn understand and that,s all i got to say about that.

If you are talking to me, so show me any Asian TG who can marry a man in her country. Come on man, tell it to me. Where is it possible?
Know you, English isn't my native language but I can read and understand what the question is. The Starter of that topic lives in the Philippines and not in Europe where homosexual marriage isn't a problem.
And, we talk either about a transgendered woman who is marry with a GG.
I hope now you undertstand.

[fionahavelock]

Originally Posted by Rambam

If you are talking to me, so show me any Asian TG who can marry a man in her country. Come on man, tell it to me. Where is it possible?
.

i know one couple here, she's well known ts. she was married with local guy. they married in moslem religion. they have some pictured to show us. i'm not really sure that it's legal by government, thats what i mean, they didn't have the same rights and benefit with heterosexual couples. so i guess it could happen by traditional society, but not recognized by government.
that makes me thinking, what the point getting married if it's not recognize then. but they married and live together happily..

[racquel]

Originally Posted by fionahavelock

i don't really agree with that term.. well of course people getting married also for many reason, protections, rights and also benefit. such as divorce protection, medical, social security and so on.
so i believe in legal marriage then just declare it..
it's just my thought...

I totally agree. I'm just saying it's not the end of the world. Gay and TS people have lived together for a long time, and you can get some of the same protections with business partnerships, civil unions and various contracts. Anybody can get a joint checking account.

Originally Posted by CreativeMind

...but the flat out truth is that they ALSO don't want same-sex couples destroying what they feel are their religious beliefs, and they absolutely don't want to see same-sex marriages impeding on their churches or their personal rights.

We all hear the cries of religious folks saying that gay marriage destroys the religious sanctity of marriage. There's one major, major problem with that argument. If you're going to truly follow your religion then for the most part you need to say that everybody who doesn't is going to hell. If you're a fundamentalist Christian you must think that atheists, Jews, Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, Taoists and probably Catholics are all going to hell. They're all heathens, not just the gays and trannys. Therefore all their marriages are an abomination -- an affront to God, Jesus and Scripture. So if you oppose gay marriage you should also oppose all marriage outside your faith because it all destroys the religious sanctity of marriage.

But all these fundamentalists are just hateful. They don't even care about what they're supposed to believe. If you actually read the Bible you will find that gays and transsexuals are not in any way condemned by Jesus. Moses said in Leviticus that you shouldn't have gay sex, but he also said you shouldn't eat pork or do any work on Saturday or you'll burn in hell. Jesus said over and over that people shouldn't try to follow the law of Moses, though. And remember that whole part where Sodom was destroyed because they were gay? Try actually reading it. The entire city wanted to gang rape two angels that God sent, and that is why they were destroyed. Of course, the Bible is all made up, but if you're going to say you follow it you should actually read it.

And the other argument that any marriage infringes on anybody else's rights is absurd.

[fionahavelock]

So if you oppose gay marriage you should also oppose all marriage outside your faith because it all destroys the religious sanctity of marriage.


well said racquel, i agree with it.

[hankhavelock]

Originally Posted by racquel

We all hear the cries of religious folks saying that gay marriage destroys the religious sanctity of marriage. There's one major, major problem with that argument. If you're going to truly follow your religion then for the most part you need to say that everybody who doesn't is going to hell. If you're a fundamentalist Christian you must think that atheists, Jews, Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, Taoists and probably Catholics are all going to hell. They're all heathens, not just the gays and trannys. Therefore all their marriages are an abomination -- an affront to God, Jesus and Scripture. So if you oppose gay marriage you should also oppose all marriage outside your faith because it all destroys the religious sanctity of marriage.

But all these fundamentalists are just hateful. They don't even care about what they're supposed to believe. If you actually read the Bible you will find that gays and transsexuals are not in any way condemned by Jesus. Moses said in Leviticus that you shouldn't have gay sex, but he also said you shouldn't eat pork or do any work on Saturday or you'll burn in hell. Jesus said over and over that people shouldn't try to follow the law of Moses, though. And remember that whole part where Sodom was destroyed because they were gay? Try actually reading it. The entire city wanted to gang rape two angels that God sent, and that is why they were destroyed. Of course, the Bible is all made up, but if you're going to say you follow it you should actually read it.

And the other argument that any marriage infringes on anybody else's rights is absurd.

One of the most precisely written posts here ever!

[CreativeMind]

Originally Posted by Rambam

Don't get me wrong, but I didn't know that all countries all over the world do allow a homosexual marriage. Don't know where you live, mate.

Originally Posted by Rambam

If you are talking to me, so show me any Asian TG who can marry a man in her country. Come on man, tell it to me. Where is it possible?

Here is a quick list of countries, where you can find out what their marriage laws are relative to same-sex unions...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Status_...e-sex_marriage

[CreativeMind]

Originally Posted by rockabilly

Why should the state or government say who can or cant be married. Dont get me wrong i want to have a Tgirlfriend and spend my life w/ her but i feel like "big brother" should butt out of our life. It should be enough that i want to share a life w/ a Tgirl that a piece of paper shouldn't hold us back. Maybe i'm wrong but Marrige is just a word for the ceremony of joining two people together.

Well, it's really NOT just a word because...

Originally Posted by fionahavelock

Well of course people getting married also for many reason, protections, rights and also benefit. Such as divorce protection, medical, social security and so on.

Bingo. Fiona has it exactly right. THAT'S why marriage is more than a word. Over time, we've based quite a few laws and protections in our country around the rights that a spouse will LEGALLY have regarding health care, insurance coverage, divorce proceedings, property distribution, inheritance rights, tax stature...all sorts of things.

I know it sounds simple to simply say "I should just be able to marry who I love", but as a society the ramifications of are very far reaching. Mind you, I'm not saying there shouldn't be same sex marriage or whatever, I'm just saying that even if today -- some how, some way -- someone magically waved a wand and passed same sex marriage laws in all 50 states you'd STILL see YEARS of legal debates over the things I just listed above and more, because even THEN you'd get into legal fights over "when" should certain changes and rights be legally recognized.

In short, this is going to be a mess for at least another decade or more as people continually slug it out in the court system. In short, look at California. Prop 8 passed and now to challenge it, opponents will have to wait for yet another election -- at which point there's still no guarantee they'd even win. Which means ANOTHER cycle of years waiting for ANOTHER election period or MORE years of court battles.