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#51
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The day Americans give up their decision making to foreigners is the day this is no longer America and just another lamb in the EU or Useless Nations.
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#52
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It's all about juggling the numbers
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As for Obama, sorry, but I won't cry any tears for him either since his finances are a real shell game in motion. The public disclosure for him is that his NET worth is $1.3 million -- but that's a number you get ONLY if you start deducting money from things that he owns or has equity in and start deducting mortgage payments, etc. So he's actually far RICHER than that number lets on. Plus, let's assume he gets elected. Look at the Clintons. They claimed to be "average people" when they got into office, but within 10 years of leaving office...between public appearances, speeches, book deals, etc...they're now worth over $100 million too -- which means Hillary is every bit a rich as McCain. And if Obama wins, within a few years of being out of office he stands an excellent chance of joining the $100 million club too. My problem with talking about finances is that it's not fair to compare them. The McCain fortune was built up over decades of time, versus Obamas money is now just starting to pile up. So it's an apples and oranges kind of things. Plus, the Obamas like to say they're "only worth 1.3 million" -- but the truth is they own a $2 million dollar home, but they deduct the mortgage payments to drive the number down to 1.3. At the same time, if you are going to stick Cindy McCain's fortune onto John McCain, then fair is fair and you have to do the same for Michelle Obama. Up until the start of the summer, Michelle Obama was raking in $320,000 a year for a PART TIME job as a "community affairs consultant" attached to the University of Chicago. I don't know about the rest of you, but I can't remember the last time I worked a PART TIME job and it paid 300 thousand a year! So let's be honest -- they're not hurting in the least. I saw a talk show host interviewed on TV recently and they really summed it up perfectly by noting: "Look, I realize it's election time and people will choose sides. But for once could we just cut the crap? The truth is NONE of these people are "average Americans" like you or me. As much as politicians love to say "I'm one of you," the truth is by the time you get to THIS level of running for office...such as President...you either came from a very privileged family and background OR you made some SERIOUS money along the way and NOW you're pretty freakin' rich. Either way, you're NOT like the average person." To be honest, the one who made me laugh the most over this was John Kerry when he ran for President 4 years ago. I seriously cracked up every time Kerry would say in a speech that he was just an "average" American like me or you given that his personal worth at the time (by being married to heiressTeresa Heinz) was something like 3/4 of BILLION dollars. So a tip to the guys here: get out more and find yourselves a sexy sugar mama. Or should I say a sexy sugar TS mama! Hmm...I wonder what Areeya is worth? |
#53
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wouw! hot shit, mano! as spoken by a true neocon... ;-) that's the stuff, george bush and john mccain are truly made of...
__________________
- I cherish the fact that the girls I date are braver than I |
#54
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Such bullshit. I'm not a neocon. What I said I said out of a sense of patriotism. Since when should one nation allow the people of another to make decisions for it? That's stupid. That's the borderless world concept. What if Americans made the decisions for Brits? Frenchies? Canadians? How'd they like it if they didn't have say so over who becomes their leaders and government officials? Or couldn't have any say over things like taxes and property rights?
If you're going to reply to me with such a jackassed comment and insult don't bother. Anyone of any nation with half a mind would agree with me. You don't let foreigners elect your officials. |
#55
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You tell'em Ogryn. I'd really like to hear hanghaveock explain why the US leaders should be chosen by other countries? Is that the way it's done in Indonesia?
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A lesbian trapped in a man's body |
#56
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If I was walking in the woods and I met McCain and Palin, I would slit their throat and throw them in a ditch.
That pretty much sums it up for me. |
#57
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Sister, you need to learn what socialism is. You have no fucking clue.
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#58
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Well, aren't you just the informed and socially concerned voter? Comments like that really diminish any argument for or against a thing. Shame on you. Shame shame shame Anna..everyone know's your name. |
#59
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If you met Palin in the woods one day, what do you think she would think of you? You're a fag, deny it all you like, but you like dick, and that makes you a faggot, and Palin doesn't like faggots. I'm glad I'm not American, I don't have the risk of this fucked up bitch taking away my rights. |
#60
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Aww. You're so mean calling me names. Sniff...faggot. So what if she thought of me as a fag? I don't care of the ignorance of others and I will condemn people for their flaws. She could call me a fag. But if I see value in here just the same I'll respect it.
I find it hilarious outsiders think they know anything about rights in the nations. Let alone how this nation works. Most foreigners who run their mouths don't have much of an informed opinion. Even the ones who trot out "well I've visited America." I've been here all my life. And I have the same rights I did when I was born today. I've not lost a single one. It doesn't matter who is in the White House or not. Why? It's not the president who has the most impact on our day to day lives in America. Not at all. So get it right Anna. It's fucking Congress who has the most daily impact. They're the ones who make the decisions that effect the citizens most. Not the president. But I don't think you'd be able to see this through your bias tinted glasses. |
#61
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<Alternate> Yes, only the people who are in the nation controlled by a government should vote for that government. So only Americans, Iraqis and Afganis should vote for the US president. |
#62
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The Iraqis elected their own leaders you know. Made possible by removing Saddam Hussein. And, it seems the Iraqi's were quite happy being able to elect their own leaders. So much so that Kurds in the north even ran a television ad thanking the Americans for making it possible.
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#63
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#64
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This from someone who would slit someone's throat and toss them in a ditch.
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A lesbian trapped in a man's body |
#65
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A lesbian trapped in a man's body Last edited by TracyCoxx; 09-03-2008 at 11:35 PM. |
#66
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Wasn't it the UK that redefined the borders of countries in the Mid East? That turned out real well.
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A lesbian trapped in a man's body |
#67
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That's the typical comeback of a person who refuses to look at the big picture but rather complain about certain points. On my other site people like you are in the majority. You might like it there. And in particular all the Brits do as you do. Every Brit I've ever encountered seems to have some kind of ignrance driven obsession with hating this nation. I've yet to find one Brit say one positive thing about America. And I'm left to conclude it is because of two possible things: Brits are, by nature arrogant assholes who love to bitch and moan. Or, and I do hope this one is the reason, the people of England are bashing the United States to mask their insecurities about their own less than perfect nation. After all, it isn't as if England has a spotless and unblemished history and has always been the paragon of a virtuous nation. And as Tracy pointed out, England has had more effect on the Middle East than America. So, could it be that the people of England, who bitch about America while ignoring their own "fuckeduppery" simply being insecure? Makes them feel a little better about their smile island nation? Why is America having more effect now? Because America has more power, wealth and influence. It's no wonder when the shit hits the fan nations call on America long and pass on England. Then consider history. England is sore they lost their colonies. And who stood to benefit the most from the Industrial Revolution? Not England. America. Because we made this our country. England lost its superpower status. And so when the Industrial Revolution happened all the vast resources of this nation were ours. England, on the other hand, by this time was a shrinking empire who depended, and still does, on trade from other nations to survive. England lacks the agricultural capacity and manufacturing capacity to be self-sufficient. Whereas, if America so desired, we could sever ties with other nations in the form of trade and be able to survive on our own resources with the exception of oil. In other words: America is the big dog on the porch while England is the little waiting for scraps. |
#68
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You are an American, what business do you have in telling the Iraqis what is good for them?
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#69
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Can't you do any better than that?
What business did the Brits have of forcing opium on China during the Opium War? Invading other countries and then colonizing them? And many other historical blemishes. How about criticizing merry old England for a spell? You're proving me right, in regards to my previous comment. Even more so with useless equivalency. |
#70
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The answer is of course none. You are the one using useless equivalence. Your only argument in defence of the US is Britain did it first. When you're using the British empire as your justification, you're really getting desperate.
I'm against all imperialism, I'm not the one blowing smoke up the ass of my government, I hate them, I'm not looking to defend them. You can carry your white man's burden alone, you will get no help from me. |
#71
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Anna, I was expecting more from you. Fiery, eloquent, geeky Anna being slammed by 2 "patriotic" americans who are blind to all atrocities done by USA!!! All the bossing, tampering, exploiting by the US are justified by profitable "peacekeeping"! Baah!
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Your life is unique, cherish it. Do something with your life. Last edited by sesame; 09-04-2008 at 09:51 AM. |
#72
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The Ant Bully
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The US is a nervous wreck. Constantly in fear of losing control. So it had to destroy Vietnam, USSR, Afghanistan, Iraq... whatever is next on the list.
__________________
Your life is unique, cherish it. Do something with your life. |
#73
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Perhaps the Brits you see posting on the Internet have a common "feel" to them because England (and France, and Holand, and Spain) have a history of fucking up foreign countries for their particular benefit, having that blow up in their face, and causing tremendous harm to actual living breathing people and being called out for it.
It's also about perception - What you may see as the US going in and helping another country remain stable is seen by others as America acting as like a bully on the world stage. Since no action taken in a foreign country is ever fully altruistic, having motives questioned by our allies keeps the "big dogs" in check. As far as McCain/Palin and their social politics.... Lots of Conservative gays and trans*people and the guys who like us love to talk about how their main focus is foreign policy and/or economics. Well bully for you. The Real ID Act the McCain and Palin support will make it EVER HARDER for pre and non- op gals to get a basic job that doesn't involve sex work. Do you get the economic impact of that? The current Patriot Act (I love how Conservatives are so dismissive about how no actual Americans have anything to worry about with the PA) outs Transfolks every time they get a non-sex work job, with a recommendation (initially an INSTRUCTION) to fire/not hire that person because their gender documentation doesn't match, thus they are a security risk. Again, Conservative economics on a micro hitting me in the purse level.
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- I hate being braver than the guys I date. - Yes, it's me in the avatar Blog: http://laughriotgirl.wordpress.com/ |
#74
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Image is all
So - ignoring all the somewhat petty imperialist / anti-imperialist sniping rampant in the first half of this thread, it seems to me that projected image supported by selective ' facts ' is the principal Driver of Western politicians today, not any true or honest virtues that they may possess. ' Honest Abe ' is an anachronism and a fantasy in today political world. So we get more and more headline-grabbers, ambtious politicians who ' talk the good talk', but when it comes to ' walking the good walk ' they are very much found wanting and only cover up their own incompetence and ineptitude by the reckless compounding of promises upon promises, none or few of which are delivered.
Tony Blair in the UK of the ready smile and bountiful bag of political hot air is a prime example, and those who have followed him without the advantage of charm even more so. What little I know of Obama makes him equally as unknown a quantity. IF he gets elected he will a hard job to maintain integrity with progress. But what do we Brits know except what we read in the Gutter Press and in Forums ?
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Bella |
#75
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Should women rule ?
Politically-aware women make me uneasy. Fanatical ones make me panic. And why do politicians always present themselves as right by virtue of their appointment ? Not sure that comparisons between the economic / exploitative empires of Britain and America serve any real purpose in this thread. That way I agree with Bella. But Bionca has some very valid points too.
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#76
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But you missed the point and apparently, American socalled PATRIOTISM (by defined by George Bush and his hoods) is becoming as "holy" as muslim "patriotism". And that is basicly why, it's too dangerous to leave the election of the American president to the American people... ;-) Oh well, the Chinese have awoken and will make this their century anyways. But be PROUD! And just send MacDonalds and your marines... and if we don't bend to your PATRIOTIC way, then just send the missiles... you always wanted isolationalism... so why not take it to the limit and kill off anything that cannot be labelled as God's own American PATRIOTISM? These are the policies that Barack Obama will not follow...
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- I cherish the fact that the girls I date are braver than I Last edited by hankhavelock; 09-04-2008 at 01:01 PM. |
#77
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we desperately need a third party
as far as Obama and McCain go I really think McCain is the lesser of the two idiots |
#78
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A lesbian trapped in a man's body Last edited by TracyCoxx; 09-04-2008 at 11:09 PM. |
#79
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Unfortunately that will usually not work. The vote will usually be split among the top 2 candidates and the 3rd choice will get the majority of the votes.
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A lesbian trapped in a man's body |
#80
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I'm conservative and Republican in case you've not noticed by now. But surely nobody would lump me in with the right wing element. Your generalizations don't acknowledge those like me. And there's more than you'd think Bionca. I assure you my main focus isn't foreign policy in the least. I've stated I want this nation to return to an isolationist stance and have little dealings with foreign nations friend and foe alike. As for my focus on the economy. I'll be honest: I don't give a shit about it. See, I live in one of the poorest regions in America. When the national economy is booming guess what? Appalachia is still poor! The average household income is about 6,000 to 13,000 a year. It's always been this way for the mountain folk and always will. As such, I don't give a damn about the economy in the rest of the nation. The Patriot Act? I'm simple minded about it. It's not harmed my life. I've not lost a single right since 9/11. People must adjust to the demands and dangers of the times. We did in WW2 without much complaint. I see what's bad about the act but I don't care. Because law abiding legal citizens don't suffer under it. Trans issues? Well, I really don't know much about their issues. I'll need to research the Real ID Act. If it presents inequality for the trans community then I will not approve of it. But if it doesn't unduly burden them any more so than everything else I can't really complain. See, although I support minorities and equality I keep my eye on the greater good: the majority. So, I'm all for equality and fairness for everyone. But if at any point the good for the minority begins stripping away at the rights of the whole I oppose it. The majority rules. The majority comes first. Ideally, everyone should have a fair break. And please never doubt me on this. But I'll not compromise what is best for all just to please the few, no matter who they are. My people are a minority of sorts. We could use Uncle Sam's help. Financially mainly. But we're a minority. I would not expect the majority to be diminished at our expense. Furthermore, this may offend people, but one thing I oppose about the idea of national healthcare is that taxpayers would be paying for everyone. This means the gender reassignment surgery as well. Please, I don't want you Bionca, or any other person, to think I oppose your rights. But to me, paying for this isn't fair to the tax payer. Nor would be the taxpayer paying for my illness if I got lung cancer because I do indeed smoke like a freight train. The problem with national healthcare is it would be easily abused. Before you know it people who wanted plastic surgery would be having taxpayers paying for it. And they'd use some kind of depression angle to justify it. I'm of the mind that national healthcare should only be for the usual things: injuries from accident, disorders, disease, medicine, etc, not elective surgeries. Anyway, I hope I've not offended you nor made an enemy out of you for my views. I support anyone within reason. But as I said, my loyalty lies with the majority. That is, to me, what democracy is. |
#81
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There certainly is... a sinister amount of a bit more... ;-)
__________________
- I cherish the fact that the girls I date are braver than I |
#82
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I admit it... (s)he's a lill conservative HOTTIE.. one starts to understand why George Bush is always smiling and squint-eyed when he appears in public... he has this suprema Goddess on his lap every day... Peace, my man! Barack PS: All Power to the Black Panthers!
__________________
- I cherish the fact that the girls I date are braver than I |
#83
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If I were a Republican I'd have Republican views too. Bush has not only spent or stolen every cent Clinton saved, he's borrowed our future from China and blown that too. You can thank George Bush, millionaire brat oil businessman, for electing the first black man president.
Obama will be the best thing that has ever happened to the American middle class. He has the energy and vision to do it. It has been his direction from Day one. the 2006 elections showed that the republican's time is up. take that to the bank. |
#84
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Never underestimate the stupidity of the average American voter. Then recall that half of them are dumber than that! EEK! |
#85
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God help us all, Anna
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=511_1220605235 |
#86
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You've gone too far and I've had about enough of your crap. Where do you get off insulting us like that?
__________________
A lesbian trapped in a man's body |
#87
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It astonishes me how blind people are to history. Clinton wasn't the economic miracle worker. Our economy was mainly driven by a specific trend at the time. And though we had good times and more money, he left us in a recession. It spiraled from there.
As for Ann, I chalk Anna up to being just another spiteful and decidedly biased European who can only bash America, often will ill informed opinions and little knowledge of the issues and facts. And, with the insults and hate Anna diminishes the value of any intelligent conversation. Very impressive for those oh so superior Europeans who are so much more intellectual and enlightened than we horrible Americans. A pity we have no ignore feature here. |
#88
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#89
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDIsOqq6yko I never said the average voter was any smarter anywhere else mind. |
#90
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Anything is better than Bush
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#91
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#92
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...olmes-did.html Quote:
There is plenty of revisionist history going on in the US too. I'm sure you've heard all the 'Bush Lied about Iraqi WMD' BS. The democrats were agreeing on the WMD intelligence up until the 2004 elections. Then they conveniently found fault in the intelligence and it all suddenly became Bush's fault. Quote:
And what do we say today? It's aaaaaaaall Bush's fault. Forgive me if I don't put much stock in people like yourself and who have no grasp of the big picture.
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A lesbian trapped in a man's body |
#93
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The government party is in direct control of hte intelligence services, the president has pretty much hte highest security clearance there is, he can see everything. The opposition party only sees what is released to them by the security services controlled by the government party. |
#94
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When Clinton was president he also had direct access to intelligence services. Hillary also spoke of intelligence reports that she has seen. Al Gore, Tom Daschle, Ted Kennedy and Sandy Berger also had access. Go back and read the quotes. Those were the assessments of the intelligence community that Bush inherited.
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A lesbian trapped in a man's body |
#95
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Quite the contrary. Each successive president inherits everything from the previous. They take on their responsibilities, unfinished business, crisis, war, recession, whatever. And while in office they add to it. See, it is a growing body work building on the past. And in some cases undoing the past. The point being that the man in office is essentially a caretaker. Picks up where the other left off. Continues the work or goes in a new direction. The man in office is powerful. And much responsibility is on his shoulders. "The buck stops here." Problem is, in any government everyone wants to pass the buck. What you fail to understand is that it is Congress that has more direct influence and actual impact on the daily lives of Americans. Congress is where the true power is. It is easy to pass the buck and blame on the president. Especially since he does have real power. But often, his failings stem from Congress, as Congress is in a perpetual feud with itself for control. Democrats want it. They get it. Reps want it. They get. Whoever is in office often has to wade through lots of red tape. Congress is the real problem in America. Especially the current one. You, have much to learn about how this government works. Yet you don't want to learn. You want to complain. And the more you do the more evident your ignorance of the issues is apparent. |
#96
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Ogryn, my friend, I allowed my self to move your answer from another thread to this one, where I believe it's more appropriate if you don't mind.
You wrote: I couldn't agree more with you. Aside from only one thing: Obama. I'm of the opinion social change must come slowly. It cannot be rushed because of loose ends and the impact it has on people. America is an extremely diverse nation. We have every type of person imaginable and ever difference imaginable found here. Perhaps more so than most nations. And it is always a battle. I believe in serving the whole, the greater good, thus the majority rules. Minorities are a secondary consideration. This does not mean I support oppressing them or denying them their fair treatment and rights. Only that any sweeping change in our society should be carefully thought out, all options and ramifications considered and then eased into. Rapid and sudden change creates unforeseen issues. And this is my problem with the far left and Obama's of the world. The Europeans can sit and smugly condemn my nation for being backwards and less socially progressive. Europeans are exceptionally arrogant. Yet they forget something important: European nations are older than America. They have had the benefit of several hundred years of time to "perfect" themselves. America is a baby in comparison. Because I believe such change requires time, logically it stands to reason America has not had the time to "perfect" itself as Europe. It's relative to how old a nation is. And the problem with the champions of this kind of change in America are immature so to speak. They often just see a problem and immediately think up a solution then they want to make this solution happen. They don't care if it steps on other groups or has effects on the equality of all in terms of rights and civil liberties. They are rash and foolhardy. Perhaps they're hearts on in the right place. But they need to slow down and consider everything. I'll cite Obama wanting to withdraw the troops in Iraq quickly. He has failed to show he has fully thought out all considerations and possible consequences. Liberals are slightly better at this kind of change as they tend to be more logical and fair than the far left who pretty much are hot headed, overly passionate dreamers who just rush into things. So, if you can look at a European nation and American nation in terms of a whole (let's say for the sake of it all of the nation is one person) and compare age and experience, then clearly America needs to do some growing up. But we all know the dangers of growing up too quickly. This is how I disagree with you. Everything else you said I agree with entirely. I reply: This is a matter of wanting evolutionary or revolutionary change - I believe that in the case of Obama, this is STILL evolutionary change... but it is a matter that will force Americans to look deeply into their democratic hearts and find in them selves the truth they want. Isn't it finally time, that we move a bit forward - even in steps that for some may seem inappropriately large? Shifts of paradigms are always hurtful for those who strenouosly oppose them. George Bush and his administration are the last of a generation of thinking that goes back to the Civil War and an automated way to view American patriotism as the kind of patriotism decided by raw power and a fixed set of rules as to what is right and wrong. The world has changed - not necessarily the fundamentals of right and wrong in a democratic sense - but in the way that other issues are now coming up that we didn't before have to deal with. In this regard the old guard is no longer useful. They are so rooted in their old school mindset that their solutions are wrong for a new world. You mention Europe - and yes, European history goes milliennia further back than Caucasian and Afro American history. How ever, let us not kid ourselves here, American morale is rooted in European tradition and now luckily with an AfroAmerican touch. The basics are not very different. That's why America and Europe are for ever connected and will probably not be able to exist without each other. But the religious right and their out-of-date ways cannot be something that you seriously defend as morally right. And there are no other ways to bring them forward and out of their holes than to force them them to scrutinize the moral of what they are preaching. Had it been communists or muslims, you would agree with me - now it's your fellow Americans, but some of them are as backwards as the illeterates of some village in Iran... I believe we can objectively talk about right or wrong - and I believe we can fairly accuse folks of opposing new thinking because of their angst of what this new thinking may bring with it. I love America, I have always defended America, but in this love is also an obligation to oppose stupidity, which is the fact of the last administration. George Bush, his wife and his administration have hurt not only American but western credibility tremendously due to a failed policy pressed upon American allies with force. It will take years to fix that - but what I experience is a joy about Barack Obama and thus a way for America (and the rest of the west) to reestablish prudent leadership and credibility in a world that is somewhat more complicated than in the days of good old Ronald Reagan, whom I - even as a bleeding heart liberal - see as one of the most important presidents in the history of your nation EVER! That's why I believe that change is needed - if it is only a symbol of change. Barack Obama can deliver that and is light years ahead in his thinking than John McCain - btw, I actually LIKE John McCain. He's just not the the right man for the job at the time. One could hope that he'd got elected 8 years ago. Then the world would most likely have nbeen better off. He had his kicks.. now we need more dramatic change! Peace! H
__________________
- I cherish the fact that the girls I date are braver than I |
#97
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Right, you're making more sense by the second. |
#98
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There has been NOTHING to show that all those people quoted above weren't wrong either. And it's not just up until the end of Clinton's term. AGAIN go look at the quotes. You can see democrats asserting that Iraq had WMD right up until 2002/2003. The fact is most everyone who had access to the intelligence data drew the conclusion that Iraq had WMD, yet Bush is singled out as the lone liar.
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A lesbian trapped in a man's body |
#99
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I'm writing in the Tasmanian Devil. The cartoon character. Perhaps "Yosemite Sam" as he VP.
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#100
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Tracy Darling, I'm All-American but that war is Bush's war period. He claimed Mission Accomplished in his little National Guard flight suit his Dad bought him, and he deserves all the blame for it's outcome.
Now then, if this thread is going to cum to "blows" I wanna see some pictures. All kidding aside, in about 20 years I predict there will be a book on the Bush Presidency that will be a real page turner, once some key players start dying off. From hanging chads to 9-11, to Osama Bin Laden and Abromoff, (sic?) Cheney, think of all the stuff we don't even know about. It's really scary that in the nukuler age we got these guys running around in charge. Sarah Palin's going to get PMS and nuke France. |
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