You didn't build that

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by smc

I didn't write that "these values that Obama goes on about" are un-American. I wrote that it is un-American to "give any truck to this bullshit" ABOUT him and what he said in the speech in question ... that is, the bullshit about his "otherness."

Ok, let me try and understand. I didn't give any, uh, truck? to this bullshit ABOUT him and what he said in the speech in question. And this is when I said "I think for some people, it's like "wow, he's finally admitted it". And for many others, obama put words to a nagging feeling they've had about him. Obama is trying to get away from those comments, but it's not working. It's got too much of the ring of truth (at least that BO feels this way) for people to dismiss it".

Ok, I guess the key word in what you said is 'truck'. I am not an academic where words like truck and their obvious uses do not apply. You'll have to rephrase that one.

Originally Posted by smc

I stand by my point about racism. I'm not defending Obama by raising it. I'm defending what is right. This Obama-as-other stuff is wrapped tightly in racism. You can pretend it isn't, but it doesn't change reality.

Ok, look again at

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

I think for some people, it's like "wow, he's finally admitted it". And for many others, obama put words to a nagging feeling they've had about him. Obama is trying to get away from those comments, but it's not working. It's got too much of the ring of truth (at least that BO feels this way) for people to dismiss it.

Please bold the "Obama-as-other stuff" part so I can see what you're talking about.

[smc]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Ok, let me try and understand. I didn't give any, uh, truck? to this bullshit ABOUT him and what he said in the speech in question. And this is when I said "I think for some people, it's like "wow, he's finally admitted it". And for many others, obama put words to a nagging feeling they've had about him. Obama is trying to get away from those comments, but it's not working. It's got too much of the ring of truth (at least that BO feels this way) for people to dismiss it".

Ok, I guess the key word in what you said is 'truck'. I am not an academic where words like truck and their obvious uses do not apply. You'll have to rephrase that one.

One of the meanings of the noun "truck" is "close association or connection" (e.g., "I will have no truck with crooks.") I should have written "have any truck," not "give any truck."

I cannot miss the opportunity to point out that you could have simply written that you are not familiar with the term as I used it, and asked for clarification. By writing what you did about not being an academic, you seek to do with me the very same thing this bullshit about Obama's speech, and the birther movement, seek to do to Obama: paint a picture of him as "other." You will deny it, of course, but the point of making the "academic" remark is to set me apart, in this case by virtue of my choice of words. It's as if to say to those who read the post, with a wink: "Don't forget that smc is not like the rest of us ... and be sure to take that into account when you read what he writes." It's insidious insinuation (you can look those words up if need be).

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Ok, look again at
Please bold the "Obama-as-other stuff" part so I can see what you're talking about.

I am referring to the entire enterprise of this portrayal of Obama's speech by those who are engage in it, which involves gross misrepresentation for political gain and to continue this "otherness" campaign (see below). Specifically, your "nagging feeling" comment is part of the "Obama-as-other stuff" to which I refer. The response to this speech by the right cannot be separated from all the other things that have been done in an effort to paint this picture of Obama as "not like us" or "someone who doesn't get America" and so on. The reality is that other than not being a White, Anglo-Saxon, Obama -- the Obama story -- may be the most American story of any president in a long time. It's not the story of a Kenyan-born Muslim, educated in a madrasa in Indonesia, who is "other." Differ with the man on policy, but have no truck with this campaign of innuendo and ignorance, pushed by those who demonstrate time and again their disrespect for the very country they claim to love, and embraced by people many of whom don't even recognize Hawaii as part of the "real America" (cue Sarah Palin). Really, TracyCoxx, you want to throw your lot in with those people? Or do you want to distinguish yourself, and your political views, by being serious?

[smc]

How do you make someone appear to say something that they didn't really say, so you can create a big political kerfuffle and support your underlying notion that someone just doesn't get how America works, that he isn't one of us, that he is other? The Romney campaign's political ad is an object lesson, along with the deliberate misquoting and taking out of context that has been practiced by the right-wing talking heads.

Here is what Obama said in his speech (it's part of the public record, and it was recorded):

Let me tell you something. There are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there. If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you?ve got a business, you didn?t build that.

I bolded some of this for a reason. In the Romney advertisement the speech is made to sound as if Obama went right to "if you've got a business, you didn't build that" from "let me tell you something." You can see it here:

http://www.mittromney.com/forms/these-hands0

Watch and listen to Obama's speech, carefully, as presented in this video. The video deceptively edits the remarks by removing a number of sentences so that two different parts of the speech can be made to seem seamless, thus promoting a lie about what Obama actually said. In Romney's case, it allows for the opportunity to have a "business owner" accuse Obama of insulting him, and ask Obama why the president is "demonizing" people who work hard to build a business.

It's complete bullshit.

[GRH]

If ila's "Beaver picture" from above were actually a representation of Obama's speech (which has been taken wildly out of context), the "that" being referenced is the river. The right wingers like to pretend that the "that" is the dam that the beaver built. In the context of Obama's speech, the "that" is clearly referring to the river, the trees which cast down sticks, and the other pieces of infrastructure that the beaver relied on to build the dam.

[liesjeversteven]

You Americans really crack me up sometimes... What in the world could possibly be seen as wrong in making the rich spend a little bit of what they earn on helping the less fortunate? It doesn't make sense.
What makes even less sense is that a lot of the unfortunate people who would actually benefit from Obama's reforms vote republican out of sheer stupidity.
I'm from Belgium, Europe, and we have a long tradition of a caring state. Just a few examples to illustrate:

Education: Is virtually for free, AND of pretty high standard. I think that is a really good thing. Because of this everyone, rich or poor alike, can study what they want, and prepare themselves to become something in life. When we come out of high school, we can speak three languages just to give an example.
University studies in Belgium cost about 600€ per year. That is a fraction of what it costs in the States.

Healthcare: Health insurance is obligatory, organised by the state, but, also very cheap. It costs me about 14€ per month. If I have to go to hospital for some reason, I hardly have to pay anything on top of that. This prevents people from ending up in the streets because they can't afford the medical bills and makes sure everyone gets the best possible care. I think that's a positive thing indeed.

Social benefits: If I lose my job for some reason, I get unemployment pay. Not a whole lot, but enough to allow me to pay my rent, food and the necessary things in life so I don't end up in the streets and so I have the possibility to find another job without ending up in dept. Again, same idea as above, positive indeed.

And there's much more, but I won't get into everything here.

Does that come at a certain cost? Well yes. The tax system is quite different here as well. Everyone pays a certain part of his/her income to the state, and yes that's a lot more than you Americans pay. The more you earn, the bigger the percentage of your income you pay on taxes. But i'm happy to pay my taxes, because when push comes to shove, and I end up in trouble, I have a safety net to rely on.

This all has the effect of reducing the percentage of poor people in the population. Having less poor, means having more people who can afford to consume products, which has in its turn a positive effect on economy, which creates jobs, so less unemployment, and so on....

The USA are the only developed country on this planet without universal health care. Are you guys going to tell me the whole world is wrong about this and you right?
There's nothing wrong with a bit of socialism (look it up before you get on your high horses, it's NOT the same as communism)

Just my two cents....

Love

Liesje

[Rachel]

Keep that attitude out of MY country

[liesjeversteven]

Originally Posted by Rachel

Keep that attitude out of MY country

You people keep THAT attitude up, and you'll end up living in a third world country before you know it.