Liberal free for all coming to an end

[randolph]

Originally Posted by aw9725

Tracy and I agree on something! The two books I read were Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead. Both when I was in my teens.

I read her book "Anthem" written in 1937. Her writing reflected the times. Many people thought communism was the wave of the future, she strongly disagreed. She grew up in Russia during the revolution and the takeover by the Bolsheviks. She saw the brutality, the oppression and the lack of freedom of a collectivist society. It strongly colored her future writing.
In my opinion, her writing is somewhat adolescent and rather naive. She doesn't understand the essence of humanity which is cooperative effort. She is basically sociopathic in her out look. I guess that's why she is popular with conservatives.

I am well aware of how Rand is received by liberals in academia. Whatever your interpretation of Rand, at least as a teenager, I was intrigued and influenced by the potential of the “individual” to make a difference in society. I have always been strongly independent and reading about characters such as John Galt or Hank Rearden appealed to me. As did the strong women in their lives. This strength of character is neither “right” nor “left” politically. My own beliefs about Rand may have indeed changed over the years. After all, in another thread on here, someone else calls me a “liberal professor”!

Anyway, I’m not sure that “Atlas Shrugged” would have the same impact on me today as it did when I was 17. Randolph makes some good points about what is "wrong" with much of her writing and philosophy. You are free to ridicule Rand all you want in this thread. However I would ask that you not attack me personally--unless you would like to meet in “real life” to discuss it.

After March 5 I have decided that I will no longer be participating on TLB. I have enjoyed getting to know some of you and hope that you will continue to keep in touch via email.

Andy

[randolph]

Andy

You are free to ridicule Rand all you want in this thread. However I would ask that you not attack me personally--unless you would like to meet in ?real life? to discuss it.

I am not aware of personally attacking you at any time in any post. Perhaps I am misinterpreting the above quote. I sincerely hope you change your mind, your posts are well thought out and add to the forum.

[TracyCoxx]

Just like the democrats in congress, the Wisconsin democrats have to use dirty underhanded, even illegal methods to get their agenda passed. Albeit they've gone much further than the ones in congress and actually have warrants out for their arrest!

It amazes me how many times democratic organizations and politicians try to skirt procedures and laws to push their agenda. Ranging from back room, midnight sessions to pass major legislation to staging a walkout to stop a vote. There was also a walkout in Texas' congress several years ago, guess which side... the democrats. And then there's groups like ACORN whose modus operandi includes election fraud and aid for whore houses, or the ACLU protecting the rights of organizations like NAMBLA (North American Man Boy Love Association). Democratic congressmen openly try and set the stage to allow illegal aliens to vote. The democratic unions and politicians in Wisconsin want to push their agenda to the point of putting their state in debt and forcing layoffs. Just do your job, represent your people and show up and vote.

[randolph]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Just like the democrats in congress, the Wisconsin democrats have to use dirty underhanded, even illegal methods to get their agenda passed. Albeit they've gone much further than the ones in congress and actually have warrants out for their arrest!

It amazes me how many times democratic organizations and politicians try to skirt procedures and laws to push their agenda. Ranging from back room, midnight sessions to pass major legislation to staging a walkout to stop a vote. There was also a walkout in Texas' congress several years ago, guess which side... the democrats. And then there's groups like ACORN whose modus operandi includes election fraud and aid for whore houses, or the ACLU protecting the rights of organizations like NAMBLA (North American Man Boy Love Association). Democratic congressmen openly try and set the stage to allow illegal aliens to vote. The democratic unions and politicians in Wisconsin want to push their agenda to the point of putting their state in debt and forcing layoffs. Just do your job, represent your people and show up and vote.

Surly Tracy you can come up with more bad things Democrats are fond of doing and yes the ACLU is another awful organization. Unions of course harbor criminals and other bad types. And LIBERALS, gasp, oh horrors! How can upright honest decent conservative Republicans stand to live in the same country with all this riff raff. It's truly disgusting. Oh, by the way, Tracy did you know that there are actually poor conservatives that have criminal records and quite a few are in JAIL. OMG how can that happen? Surely it is the result of a liberal conspiracy to secretly do away with conservatives. Something has to be done to protect conservatives from this relentless thrust by evil LIBERALS to take over the country.

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by randolph

Surly Tracy you can come up with more bad things Democrats are fond of doing

Yeah, but I had to get to work...

Originally Posted by randolph

and yes the ACLU is another awful organization. Unions of course harbor criminals and other bad types. And LIBERALS, gasp, oh horrors! How can upright honest decent conservative Republicans stand to live in the same country with all this riff raff. It's truly disgusting.

absolutely!

Originally Posted by randolph

Oh, by the way, Tracy did you know that there are actually poor conservatives that have criminal records and quite a few are in JAIL. OMG how can that happen?

Yes, of course there are conservatives in jail, but they aren't politicians are they? Well maybe a couple are, but I'm talking about how politicians in office and political organizations operate, not random citizens who find themselves in jail.

Originally Posted by randolph

Something has to be done to protect conservatives from this relentless thrust by evil LIBERALS to take over the country.

Exactly!

[smc]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Yeah, but I had to get to work...

absolutely!


Yes, of course there are conservatives in jail, but they aren't politicians are they? Well maybe a couple are, but I'm talking about how politicians in office and political organizations operate, not random citizens who find themselves in jail.

Exactly!

Wow, it's even easier simply to agree with sarcastic remarks that the OP doesn't really believe than to regurgitate the asinine and factually incorrect "talking points" of your typical posts, isn't it, Tracy?

Randolph should think twice before becoming an enabler.

[smc]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Just like the democrats in congress, the Wisconsin democrats have to use dirty underhanded, even illegal methods to get their agenda passed. Albeit they've gone much further than the ones in congress and actually have warrants out for their arrest!

It amazes me how many times democratic organizations and politicians try to skirt procedures and laws to push their agenda. Ranging from back room, midnight sessions to pass major legislation to staging a walkout to stop a vote. There was also a walkout in Texas' congress several years ago, guess which side... the democrats. And then there's groups like ACORN whose modus operandi includes election fraud and aid for whore houses, or the ACLU protecting the rights of organizations like NAMBLA (North American Man Boy Love Association). Democratic congressmen openly try and set the stage to allow illegal aliens to vote. The democratic unions and politicians in Wisconsin want to push their agenda to the point of putting their state in debt and forcing layoffs. Just do your job, represent your people and show up and vote.

Tracy Coxx is a master of telling you only parts of a story, or simply repeating drivel that has been refuted by reputable investigations and news organization (that is, pretty much anyone other than Fox "News" and WorldNetDaily.

The statements about ACORN are right-wing drivel. Whatever one thinks of ACORN, concerted election fraud and aid for whorehouses is nothing but far-right talking points, baseless drivel. Tracy loves to repeat such crap, knowing how easy it is to hide behind the anonymity of the Internet and get away with spewing bullshit.

Tracy wants you to think that only Democrats employ the walkout strategy, because if Tracy told the truth Tracy would have to reveal that this is a tactic used by both sides. History, though, gets in the way when you insist -- as does Tracy -- on having your own "facts" (that is, not real facts, but the things you want people to believe). But facts are a tenacious thing; they tend to stick around:

• California Assembly, 1994: When the Assembly was evenly split, 40-40, between Democrats and Republicans, the Republican members refused to show up for floor sessions in an effort to prevent Democrats from electing Willie Brown as speaker with less than a majority vote. The Republicans stayed out for several days but finally relented in January 1995.
  
• Nevada Senate, 1999: In a complicated conflict over privatization of workers' compensation, the entire Republican majority left the chamber in the middle of a night session in anger over a speech by a Democrat. The minority Democrats who remained in the chamber issued a call of the house. The sergeant-at-arms was able to round up enough Republicans to make a quorum, and the Democrats proceeded to pass two bills. Later that day, the Republicans returned and, after a motion to reconsider by two of the Republicans who had been compelled to attend, overturned the Senate's actions on those bills.

Regardless of what one thinks about these tactics, or about either of the parties, the truth ought to be told. There are, by the way, examples going all the way back to Lincoln and the Illinois legislature.

Tracy doesn't mention how yesterday, in the Ohio legislature, a bill seeking to take away collective-bargaining rights from public employees was pushed through by the Republican majority in an underhanded manner. Some Republicans didn't want to go along with their leadership, so they were removed from committees on which they had votes and where they might have opened a debate and stopped the bill from proceeding so quickly and replaced by any other Republican who would vote the way the leadership wanted. This happened in two committees and the votes then took place in the course of an hour. This enabled the legislation to get to the floor, where it passed by one vote. Several historians of parliamentary procedure have already noted that this is the most underhanded maneuver they've seen in a state legislature in decades. These Republicans who disagee with their leadership were denied the right to read the legislation and debate it. As one Republican Ohio legislator noted, his party did the same thing the national Republicans accused the Democrats of doing with the healthcare bill in Congress!

If you want to understand Tracy's behavior, look up "GIFT" -- the Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory. I apologize in advance for the use of "fuckwad" by those who first articulated this theory, but it does explain what we see again and again in this and the other drivel-filled threads Tracy starts on this site.

[randolph]

Originally Posted by smc

Tracy Coxx is a master of telling you only part of a story. Tracy doesn't mention how yesterday, in the Ohio legislature, a bill seeking to take away collective-bargaining rights from public employees was pushed through by the Republican majority in an underhanded manner. Some Republicans didn't want to go along with their leadership, so they were removed from committees on which they had votes and where they might have opened a debate and stopped the bill from proceeding so quickly and replaced by any other Republican who would vote the way the leadership wanted. This happened in two committees and the votes then took place in the course of an hour. This enabled the legislation to get to the floor, where it passed by one vote. Several historians of parliamentary procedure have already noted that this is the most underhanded maneuver they've seen in a state legislature in decades. These Republicans who disagee with their leadership were denied the right to read the legislation and debate it. As one Republican Ohio legislator noted, his party did the same thing the national Republicans accused the Democrats of doing with the healthcare bill in Congress!

The conservatives are determined, by hook or crook, to seversly weaken the middle class. Their financial masters (Koch bothers) pour money into elections to get their lackeys elected. Unionized workers are among the few that have seen their wages stay ahead of inflation. Most workers have not seen gains in wages (adjusted for inflation) for many years.
Granted, there is a severe problem with excessively generous retirement benefits. Our local county is spiraling deeper and deeper into debt as a result of retirement benefits granted to firemen and police officers. Who is at fault in this? It seem to me, its the fault of the dumbass officials that failed to look into the future costs of the plans they approved.

[smc]

Originally Posted by randolph

Granted, there is a severe problem with excessively generous retirement benefits. Our local county is spiraling deeper and deeper into debt as a result of retirement benefits granted to firemen and police officers. Who is at fault in this? It seem to me, its the fault of the dumbass officials that failed to look into the future costs of the plans they approved.

I'm saddened to see you fall into this trap of "blaming" -- whether implicitly or explicitly -- working people for the current situation. Police, firemen, teachers, and other public workers are simply demanding what is theirs already. A pension is not a gift; it is part of the wage/benefit package that was negotiated contractually. And it is the very, very, very rare pension plan indeed that does not include a significant contribution from the worker herself or himself. So, all these public employees are demanding is to be paid the money that is THEIRS!

Why are counties, cities, and states so strapped? Not because the amount os the pensions are out of line. It is because the money was LOST. And who lost it? The very Wall Street bankers who, enabled by the politicians they own, used this money in their casino -- a casino that nearly brought down this country economically. They ran, and continue to run, a massive financial fraud and not a single one is under indictment or behind bars.

Put the blame where it belongs. Once we do that, we can begin the process of recovering the money stolen from working people by these criminals.