Liberal free for all coming to an end

[TracyCoxx]

Just like the democrats in congress, the Wisconsin democrats have to use dirty underhanded, even illegal methods to get their agenda passed. Albeit they've gone much further than the ones in congress and actually have warrants out for their arrest!

It amazes me how many times democratic organizations and politicians try to skirt procedures and laws to push their agenda. Ranging from back room, midnight sessions to pass major legislation to staging a walkout to stop a vote. There was also a walkout in Texas' congress several years ago, guess which side... the democrats. And then there's groups like ACORN whose modus operandi includes election fraud and aid for whore houses, or the ACLU protecting the rights of organizations like NAMBLA (North American Man Boy Love Association). Democratic congressmen openly try and set the stage to allow illegal aliens to vote. The democratic unions and politicians in Wisconsin want to push their agenda to the point of putting their state in debt and forcing layoffs. Just do your job, represent your people and show up and vote.

[randolph]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Just like the democrats in congress, the Wisconsin democrats have to use dirty underhanded, even illegal methods to get their agenda passed. Albeit they've gone much further than the ones in congress and actually have warrants out for their arrest!

It amazes me how many times democratic organizations and politicians try to skirt procedures and laws to push their agenda. Ranging from back room, midnight sessions to pass major legislation to staging a walkout to stop a vote. There was also a walkout in Texas' congress several years ago, guess which side... the democrats. And then there's groups like ACORN whose modus operandi includes election fraud and aid for whore houses, or the ACLU protecting the rights of organizations like NAMBLA (North American Man Boy Love Association). Democratic congressmen openly try and set the stage to allow illegal aliens to vote. The democratic unions and politicians in Wisconsin want to push their agenda to the point of putting their state in debt and forcing layoffs. Just do your job, represent your people and show up and vote.

Surly Tracy you can come up with more bad things Democrats are fond of doing and yes the ACLU is another awful organization. Unions of course harbor criminals and other bad types. And LIBERALS, gasp, oh horrors! How can upright honest decent conservative Republicans stand to live in the same country with all this riff raff. It's truly disgusting. Oh, by the way, Tracy did you know that there are actually poor conservatives that have criminal records and quite a few are in JAIL. OMG how can that happen? Surely it is the result of a liberal conspiracy to secretly do away with conservatives. Something has to be done to protect conservatives from this relentless thrust by evil LIBERALS to take over the country.

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by randolph

Surly Tracy you can come up with more bad things Democrats are fond of doing

Yeah, but I had to get to work...

Originally Posted by randolph

and yes the ACLU is another awful organization. Unions of course harbor criminals and other bad types. And LIBERALS, gasp, oh horrors! How can upright honest decent conservative Republicans stand to live in the same country with all this riff raff. It's truly disgusting.

absolutely!

Originally Posted by randolph

Oh, by the way, Tracy did you know that there are actually poor conservatives that have criminal records and quite a few are in JAIL. OMG how can that happen?

Yes, of course there are conservatives in jail, but they aren't politicians are they? Well maybe a couple are, but I'm talking about how politicians in office and political organizations operate, not random citizens who find themselves in jail.

Originally Posted by randolph

Something has to be done to protect conservatives from this relentless thrust by evil LIBERALS to take over the country.

Exactly!

[smc]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Yeah, but I had to get to work...

absolutely!


Yes, of course there are conservatives in jail, but they aren't politicians are they? Well maybe a couple are, but I'm talking about how politicians in office and political organizations operate, not random citizens who find themselves in jail.

Exactly!

Wow, it's even easier simply to agree with sarcastic remarks that the OP doesn't really believe than to regurgitate the asinine and factually incorrect "talking points" of your typical posts, isn't it, Tracy?

Randolph should think twice before becoming an enabler.

[randolph]

SMC

Randolph should think twice before becoming an enabler.

Hey, the only enabling I would like to do would be enabling a cute shemale to cum all over my tonsils.
Gulp, gag, cough, swallow, oh so yummy!

[Buddy]

The reason why Obamacare was such a Democatic victory is that over the years, democrats and republicans are going to share leadership time, hippies will buy cadillacs and rednecks will grow long hair, and the Supreme Court will sway from liberal to conservative. But Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Obamacare, these have roots that are here to stay.
With the decline of the 30 year job, and the 30 year mortgage, the middle class is losing solid ground. There was a survey done that found that people who make over 75 grand a year are HAPPY, and people who make less than 75 grand a year are UNHAPPY. No wonder the large percentage of people hate all government. Something's got to give, whether it be legalized pot, or war with Mexico. Cheap labor is the new OIL.

[Buddy]

Another used car salesman in the spotlight, this guy forgot to spray his bald spot after he shined his shoes. Make sure the camera catches his front, because his haircut has a hole in it. Look out for him in 2012.

[franalexes]

Randolph should think twice before becoming an enabler. [/QUOTE]

Close; Randolph is a provocateur~.

[randolph]

Originally Posted by franalexes

Randolph should think twice before becoming an enabler.

Close; Randolph is a provocateur~.[/quote]

I would love to meet a shemale that says "aboot".

[franalexes]

[I would love to meet a shemale that says "aboot". [/QUOTE]

Can't help you there. Ya looking for a "bluenoser".

[smc]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Just like the democrats in congress, the Wisconsin democrats have to use dirty underhanded, even illegal methods to get their agenda passed. Albeit they've gone much further than the ones in congress and actually have warrants out for their arrest!

It amazes me how many times democratic organizations and politicians try to skirt procedures and laws to push their agenda. Ranging from back room, midnight sessions to pass major legislation to staging a walkout to stop a vote. There was also a walkout in Texas' congress several years ago, guess which side... the democrats. And then there's groups like ACORN whose modus operandi includes election fraud and aid for whore houses, or the ACLU protecting the rights of organizations like NAMBLA (North American Man Boy Love Association). Democratic congressmen openly try and set the stage to allow illegal aliens to vote. The democratic unions and politicians in Wisconsin want to push their agenda to the point of putting their state in debt and forcing layoffs. Just do your job, represent your people and show up and vote.

Tracy Coxx is a master of telling you only parts of a story, or simply repeating drivel that has been refuted by reputable investigations and news organization (that is, pretty much anyone other than Fox "News" and WorldNetDaily.

The statements about ACORN are right-wing drivel. Whatever one thinks of ACORN, concerted election fraud and aid for whorehouses is nothing but far-right talking points, baseless drivel. Tracy loves to repeat such crap, knowing how easy it is to hide behind the anonymity of the Internet and get away with spewing bullshit.

Tracy wants you to think that only Democrats employ the walkout strategy, because if Tracy told the truth Tracy would have to reveal that this is a tactic used by both sides. History, though, gets in the way when you insist -- as does Tracy -- on having your own "facts" (that is, not real facts, but the things you want people to believe). But facts are a tenacious thing; they tend to stick around:

• California Assembly, 1994: When the Assembly was evenly split, 40-40, between Democrats and Republicans, the Republican members refused to show up for floor sessions in an effort to prevent Democrats from electing Willie Brown as speaker with less than a majority vote. The Republicans stayed out for several days but finally relented in January 1995.
  
• Nevada Senate, 1999: In a complicated conflict over privatization of workers' compensation, the entire Republican majority left the chamber in the middle of a night session in anger over a speech by a Democrat. The minority Democrats who remained in the chamber issued a call of the house. The sergeant-at-arms was able to round up enough Republicans to make a quorum, and the Democrats proceeded to pass two bills. Later that day, the Republicans returned and, after a motion to reconsider by two of the Republicans who had been compelled to attend, overturned the Senate's actions on those bills.

Regardless of what one thinks about these tactics, or about either of the parties, the truth ought to be told. There are, by the way, examples going all the way back to Lincoln and the Illinois legislature.

Tracy doesn't mention how yesterday, in the Ohio legislature, a bill seeking to take away collective-bargaining rights from public employees was pushed through by the Republican majority in an underhanded manner. Some Republicans didn't want to go along with their leadership, so they were removed from committees on which they had votes and where they might have opened a debate and stopped the bill from proceeding so quickly and replaced by any other Republican who would vote the way the leadership wanted. This happened in two committees and the votes then took place in the course of an hour. This enabled the legislation to get to the floor, where it passed by one vote. Several historians of parliamentary procedure have already noted that this is the most underhanded maneuver they've seen in a state legislature in decades. These Republicans who disagee with their leadership were denied the right to read the legislation and debate it. As one Republican Ohio legislator noted, his party did the same thing the national Republicans accused the Democrats of doing with the healthcare bill in Congress!

If you want to understand Tracy's behavior, look up "GIFT" -- the Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory. I apologize in advance for the use of "fuckwad" by those who first articulated this theory, but it does explain what we see again and again in this and the other drivel-filled threads Tracy starts on this site.

[randolph]

Originally Posted by smc

Tracy Coxx is a master of telling you only part of a story. Tracy doesn't mention how yesterday, in the Ohio legislature, a bill seeking to take away collective-bargaining rights from public employees was pushed through by the Republican majority in an underhanded manner. Some Republicans didn't want to go along with their leadership, so they were removed from committees on which they had votes and where they might have opened a debate and stopped the bill from proceeding so quickly and replaced by any other Republican who would vote the way the leadership wanted. This happened in two committees and the votes then took place in the course of an hour. This enabled the legislation to get to the floor, where it passed by one vote. Several historians of parliamentary procedure have already noted that this is the most underhanded maneuver they've seen in a state legislature in decades. These Republicans who disagee with their leadership were denied the right to read the legislation and debate it. As one Republican Ohio legislator noted, his party did the same thing the national Republicans accused the Democrats of doing with the healthcare bill in Congress!

The conservatives are determined, by hook or crook, to seversly weaken the middle class. Their financial masters (Koch bothers) pour money into elections to get their lackeys elected. Unionized workers are among the few that have seen their wages stay ahead of inflation. Most workers have not seen gains in wages (adjusted for inflation) for many years.
Granted, there is a severe problem with excessively generous retirement benefits. Our local county is spiraling deeper and deeper into debt as a result of retirement benefits granted to firemen and police officers. Who is at fault in this? It seem to me, its the fault of the dumbass officials that failed to look into the future costs of the plans they approved.

[smc]

Originally Posted by randolph

Granted, there is a severe problem with excessively generous retirement benefits. Our local county is spiraling deeper and deeper into debt as a result of retirement benefits granted to firemen and police officers. Who is at fault in this? It seem to me, its the fault of the dumbass officials that failed to look into the future costs of the plans they approved.

I'm saddened to see you fall into this trap of "blaming" -- whether implicitly or explicitly -- working people for the current situation. Police, firemen, teachers, and other public workers are simply demanding what is theirs already. A pension is not a gift; it is part of the wage/benefit package that was negotiated contractually. And it is the very, very, very rare pension plan indeed that does not include a significant contribution from the worker herself or himself. So, all these public employees are demanding is to be paid the money that is THEIRS!

Why are counties, cities, and states so strapped? Not because the amount os the pensions are out of line. It is because the money was LOST. And who lost it? The very Wall Street bankers who, enabled by the politicians they own, used this money in their casino -- a casino that nearly brought down this country economically. They ran, and continue to run, a massive financial fraud and not a single one is under indictment or behind bars.

Put the blame where it belongs. Once we do that, we can begin the process of recovering the money stolen from working people by these criminals.

[randolph]

Originally Posted by smc

I'm saddened to see you fall into this trap of "blaming" -- whether implicitly or explicitly -- working people for the current situation. Police, firemen, teachers, and other public workers are simply demanding what is theirs already. A pension is not a gift; it is part of the wage/benefit package that was negotiated contractually. And it is the very, very, very rare pension plan indeed that does not include a significant contribution from the worker herself or himself. So, all these public employees are demanding is to be paid the money that is THEIRS!



Why are counties, cities, and states so strapped? Not because the amount os the pensions are out of line. It is because the money was LOST. And who lost it? The very Wall Street bankers who, enabled by the politicians they own, used this money in their casino -- a casino that nearly brought down this country economically. They ran, and continue to run, a massive financial fraud and not a single one is under indictment or behind bars.

Put the blame where it belongs. Once we do that, we can begin the process of recovering the money stolen from working people by these criminals.

Certainly, workers earn and deserve a just retirement. However, the evidence suggests that at the time the retirement plan was negotiated, the ultimate costs were not projected. The plans were extremely generous, far beyond what would be considered reasonable.
The question is it justified to give some one a retirement higher than his final salary? Is it justified to play games with work time to raise the retirement even more? In the case of Riverside County, there is no evidence the money was "lost" it seems to be a case of bad fiscal planning and management.

[smc]

Originally Posted by randolph

Certainly, workers earn and deserve a just retirement. However, the evidence suggests that at the time the retirement plan was negotiated, the ultimate costs were not projected. The plans were extremely generous, far beyond what would be considered reasonable.
The question is it justified to give some one a retirement higher than his final salary? Is it justified to play games with work time to raise the retirement even more? In the case of Riverside County, there is no evidence the money was "lost" it seems to be a case of bad fiscal planning and management.

I'm even more saddened, now. You should review the meaning of the word you use, "just." Whether the plans were "far beyond ... reasonable" is at best a secondary point, and one that is worthy of consideration for future pension agreements. The primary point is one of ownership, as in ownership of the money that is being withheld. It does not belong to Riverside County; it belongs to the workers. And so, I ask, is it "just" to keep it from them? And if it simply does not exist to give to them, is it "just" to blame them for wanting what is rightfully theirs?

[randolph]

SMC

And so, I ask, is it "just" to keep it from them? And if it simply does not exist to give to them, is it "just" to blame them for wanting what is rightfully theirs?

The employees have a right to whatever was negotiated with the County. I am not blaming the employees for the lack of funds necessary to pay their retirements. Riverside County finances depend to a large extent on development fees and taxes. Development has crashed in this area resulting in severe economic distress for the County. As with other government agencies they spend more they can bring in. I doubt any agency keeps its retirement program fully funded at all times regardless of the current economy. Consequently, the County is faced with a future shortfall in its retirement system.
Is it fair that the taxpayers will ultimately be required to fork up the money to pay for these very generous retirements approved by County administraters? Needless to say Riverside County voters are thoroughly pissed off.