Liberal free for all coming to an end

[randolph]

Originally Posted by smc

Discourse about issues can be productive, and perhaps even lead to solving problems. Discourse about people involved in those issues is usually counterproductive, especially if it is in the form of invective, or name calling, or blame -- unless the objective is for the individual who engages in it to feel better about himself or herself. At least that's my observation over the course of my life, and I've rarely found anyone who can mount a convincing argument to the contrary.

Quite true, it seems politicizing and ranting about individuals is a way of smoke screening the real issues. We have critical issues facing us that are being covered over, ignored and distorted.
We no longer have enough domestic oil to supply our needs.
We spend billions to buy oil from Arabs
We out source the heart of our economy the industrial worker.
We consume far more than we need.
We are like a bunch of drunken sailors in a lifeboat. The booze is running out and we have nowhere to go.

Yet the politics is so intense that nothing is being done to ensure our future as a viable country.

[Tread]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Once Obama care is fully implemented my health insurance payments go up to around $1000 or more a year. Plus it adds another $trillion to our debt. This is less expensive how?

I don?t know what is made with Obama care, but how can it be more expensive to your insurance payments? What are they doing wrong with the Obama care that it doesn?t get closer to other countries in price?
The cost to start this should be taken by the government, the trillion you mentioned. There is no surprise that this cost much at the beginning, but this should be amortized over time (as smc mentioned).

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Rather than the government paying for everyone's health maintenance costs in addition to emergency care, why not do something smarter like outlawing high-fructose sugar? As the use of this sugar spread throughout the US obesity has also spread in exactly the same way. You get rid of this sugar and you greatly decrease all the problems that come with obesity, like heart disease, high blood pressure, diabetes, fatigue, etc. 1/3 of the people in this country are now obese, and it is still climbing. It used to be that 1-2% of children were obese. Now it's 13%! People would be healthier and feel better. Isn't that a lot cheaper?

Personally I would prefer marking the products combined with elucidation about fructose.
Especially products labelled with diet do lot harm, because people think they are doing their self something good with less sugar. It contains less sugar, but most of it is fructose instead of a better sugar mix and it has often more fat than non diet products.

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Yes that's true but I'm not as quick to throw out statistics as you are.

I don?t want to throw out statistics. I know what they show in general, but they do not work on an individual, there are always exceptions and everybody could be the exception.

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by Tread

I don?t know what is made with Obama care, but how can it be more expensive to your insurance payments? What are they doing wrong with the Obama care that it doesn?t get closer to other countries in price?
The cost to start this should be taken by the government, the trillion you mentioned. There is no surprise that this cost much at the beginning, but this should be amortized over time (as smc mentioned).

Most people who are trying to figure out why people don't like Obama care automatically assume it's those idiot republicans who just don't understand. They never consider that it may just happen to be a really bad plan. Other than the fact that dems got trounced in the elections, here's another indicator that Obama care will fail: Several large corporations are getting waivers from the government so they don't have to comply with the insurance changes.

Personally I would prefer marking the products combined with elucidation about fructose.

products are marked. There's just very little choice for people wanting to avoid fructose or the mystery diet crap.

[randolph]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Most people who are trying to figure out why people don't like Obama care automatically assume it's those idiot republicans who just don't understand. They never consider that it may just happen to be a really bad plan. Other than the fact that dems got trounced in the elections, here's another indicator that Obama care will fail: Several large corporations are getting waivers from the government so they don't have to comply with the insurance changes.

products are marked. There's just very little choice for people wanting to avoid fructose or the mystery diet crap.

The reason its a bad plan is because the medical industry wrote.

[TracyCoxx]

Our government is run by a bunch of idiots. TSA lets a bunch of soldiers coming back from Afghanistan carrying a bunch of serious weaponry. Yes, unloaded, but still... Here's the crazy part. They bar one of the soldiers from boarding because he has nail clippers, which could potentially be used as a weapon to take control of the plane.

http://www.redstate.com/erick/2010/1...r-tsa-outrage/

Do we really want these kinds of people running our health care system? That's another thing people from outside the US don't realize is how inept our government workers are.

A teacher in Florida was doing a magic trick for his students in which he made a toothpick disappear. He was fired for doing witchcraft. No joke. That's how bad it is here. The USA is a 3rd world country with the world's largest economy.

[randolph]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Our government is run by a bunch of idiots. TSA lets a bunch of soldiers coming back from Afghanistan carrying a bunch of serious weaponry. Yes, unloaded, but still... Here's the crazy part. They bar one of the soldiers from boarding because he has nail clippers, which could potentially be used as a weapon to take control of the plane.

http://www.redstate.com/erick/2010/1...r-tsa-outrage/

Do we really want these kinds of people running our health care system? That's another thing people from outside the US don't realize is how inept our government workers are.

A teacher in Florida was doing a magic trick for his students in which he made a toothpick disappear. He was fired for doing witchcraft. No joke. That's how bad it is here. The USA is a 3rd world country with the world's largest economy.

Yes, agreed, we have idiots from top to bottom. Of course most of them are conservatives. Liberals are intelligent, responsible politicians and know how to properly run the country in an honest efficient way, right?
Look at the evidence, the country is debt free, we have plenty of energy, our schools are the best and we are free of crime and drugs. What a wonderful country, right?

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by randolph

Yes, agreed, we have idiots from top to bottom. Of course most of them are conservatives. Liberals are intelligent, responsible politicians and know how to properly run the country in an honest efficient way, right?
Look at the evidence, the country is debt free, we have plenty of energy, our schools are the best and we are free of crime and drugs. What a wonderful country, right?

I don't think I implied it was only one political group in the government. They're both retarded. Politicians... step back from our money.

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by Tread

I don?t know what is made with Obama care, but how can it be more expensive to your insurance payments? What are they doing wrong with the Obama care that it doesn?t get closer to other countries in price?

Looks like ObamaCare is starting to have an effect already. I am employed and I have health insurance. Our insurance rates are going up this year more than usual. What's worse is I'm losing my doctor I've had for years because he's now completely off insurance. He's on this thing called MDVIP which means if I want to keep him as a doctor I have to pay him $1600/year and I get to see him as often as I want. This isn't just my doctor, I know a few other people who also have to find other doctors and while searching online for doctors I'm seeing that people are saying don't bother with this doctor - he's good but he's not on insurance anymore. I don't have $1600/yr to spend on a doctor so I have to find a doctor who's probably not as good. So like they've been saying about ObamaCare: decreased quality of service, and or higher medical bills. Obama, I thought you said if I liked my old health care I could keep it. I can't do that you SOB. It doesn't exist anymore.

[Tread]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Looks like ObamaCare is starting to have an effect already. I am employed and I have health insurance. Our insurance rates are going up this year more than usual. What's worse is I'm losing my doctor I've had for years because he's now completely off insurance. He's on this thing called MDVIP which means if I want to keep him as a doctor I have to pay him $1600/year and I get to see him as often as I want. This isn't just my doctor, I know a few other people who also have to find other doctors and while searching online for doctors I'm seeing that people are saying don't bother with this doctor - he's good but he's not on insurance anymore. I don't have $1600/yr to spend on a doctor so I have to find a doctor who's probably not as good. So like they've been saying about ObamaCare: decreased quality of service, and or higher medical bills. Obama, I thought you said if I liked my old health care I could keep it. I can't do that you SOB. It doesn't exist anymore.

I don?t know what you want to say. Is this an answer? Am I supposed to say something?
What has this to do with decreased quality of service? Is your old doctor the only good doctor in your range?
Is there a connection between ObamaCare or Obama and MDVIP I should know off?
This sounds like it was the doctor?s decision, and the doctor could have done this years earlier, if he/she wanted.
And why are you affronting Obama for that?

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by Tread

I don’t know what you want to say. Is this an answer? Am I supposed to say something?
What has this to do with decreased quality of service? Is your old doctor the only good doctor in your range?
Is there a connection between ObamaCare or Obama and MDVIP I should know off?
This sounds like it was the doctor’s decision, and the doctor could have done this years earlier, if he/she wanted.
And why are you affronting Obama for that?

Like I said it's not just my doctor. It looks like it's several doctors. I'm trying to get a feel for how widespread this is. But it looks like this is how things are going now.

[TracyCoxx]

Can someone please explain Pelosi? Yesterday on her way out she said:

"Deficit reduction has been a high priority for us, it's our mantra: Pay as you go."

I know politicians stretch the truth, but with the deficit increasing $5.2 trillion under her watch how can she stand there and say that with a straight face? This fits every definition of a bold faced lie. Is there any way she can possibly believe what she's saying is true?

[Tread]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Like I said it's not just my doctor. It looks like it's several doctors. I'm trying to get a feel for how widespread this is. But it looks like this is how things are going now.

Oh, come on. According to their website http://www.mdvip.com/ they were founded in 2000, and they list almost 400 doctors in the whole US (I counted).
What do you want to say?

BTW: What does the abbreviation MDVIP stands for? I can?t find it.

[smc]

Originally Posted by Tread

Oh, come on. According to their website http://www.mdvip.com/ they were founded in 2000, and they list almost 400 doctors in the whole US (I counted).
What do you want to say?

BTW: What does the abbreviation MDVIP stands for? I can?t find it.

Any doctor who decides to join MDVIP is doing so for his or her own reasons, not because he or she is driven there by the Obama healthcare reform.

MDVIP (it means "Medical Doctors for Very Important Persons") is a money-making venture begun by some doctors who want to make more money by offering boutique, personalized services to those who can afford it. It is the antithesis of the kind of healthcare we should have in this country. Notably, Procter & Gamble -- the giant consumer products company -- bought this company fully in early 2010, expanding its minority stake to full ownership.

I spoke with two Harvard Medical School professors I know before writing this response. Here's a synopsis of how they both described MDVIP.

- This is another step in the misdirection of "managed care," designed to make more money doing less.

- The criteria for being a doctor in the MDVIP network is that you have to cut your practice to about 600 patients maximum (the current primary-care doctor in an urban area has 2,000 to 3,000 patients). The criteria for being a patient of such a doctor is your personal level of wealth and disposable income to pay for "care" beyond your insurance. The doctor will still collect from your insurance company; he or she just wants you to pay extra for the "privilege" of seeing him or her quickly.

- The focus is on "preventive" care, which should be the focus of the healthcare system as a whole.

- One of my colleagues said, "Welcome to the medical world's version of a country club."

Tracy Coxx, you really ought to take a deep breath before jumping to the conclusion that everything you dislike in the world can be traced to Obama, Pelosi, Democrats, and so on. The business model for a company like MDVIP precedes the healthcare debate and legislation of the last year by a long time; doctors have been trying to figure out ways to create these boutiques as sustainable ventures for many years.

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by randolph

Quite true, it seems politicizing and ranting about individuals is a way of smoke screening the real issues. We have critical issues facing us that are being covered over, ignored and distorted.
We no longer have enough domestic oil to supply our needs.
We spend billions to buy oil from Arabs
We out source the heart of our economy the industrial worker.
We consume far more than we need.
We are like a bunch of drunken sailors in a lifeboat. The booze is running out and we have nowhere to go.

Yet the politics is so intense that nothing is being done to ensure our future as a viable country.

This goes both ways. Not only should you attack at person's policies rather that attacking them, but when electing a president you should praise his policies rather than praising them. Very few people who voted for Obama even knew much about his policies. They just knew he was a cool guy. And he wasn't Bush. (Neither was McCain btw)