Liberal free for all coming to an end

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by smc

It's unfortunate that the thread is again reverting to a discussion that is not about the issues. We were doing so well for a brief while.

You mean about Pelosi? The liberal free for all has her name written all over it.

[randolph]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

You mean about Pelosi? The liberal free for all has her name written all over it.

I don't understand this endless hatred of Pelosi.
I have heard her talk about issues, she is intelligent and articulate.
I think the conservatives are just jealous that they can't come up with some one with equal intelligence to represent them.

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by randolph

I don't understand this endless hatred of Pelosi.
I have heard her talk about issues, she is intelligent and articulate.
I think the conservatives are just jealous that they can't come up with some one with equal intelligece to represent them.

LOL good one. For those who don't get the joke though Pelosi is notorious for shutting out republicans from back door meetings and cramming bills through congress that involve 1/6 of the country's economy while the majority of Americans were telling her and congress to STOP! This was a huge breach of trust with the American people and resulted in the biggest routing of Congress in a election in over 50 years.

[randolph]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

LOL good one. For those who don't get the joke though Pelosi is notorious for shutting out republicans from back door meetings and cramming bills through congress that involve 1/6 of the country's economy while the majority of Americans were telling her and congress to STOP! This was a huge breach of trust with the American people and resulted in the biggest routing of Congress in a election in over 50 years.

Is her politicking any different from what both party leaders have been doing forever?

[TracyCoxx]

"Is her politicking any different from what both party leaders have been doing forever? "

Yes

[smc]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

You mean about Pelosi? The liberal free for all has her name written all over it.

Discourse about issues can be productive, and perhaps even lead to solving problems. Discourse about people involved in those issues is usually counterproductive, especially if it is in the form of invective, or name calling, or blame -- unless the objective is for the individual who engages in it to feel better about himself or herself. At least that's my observation over the course of my life, and I've rarely found anyone who can mount a convincing argument to the contrary.

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by smc

Discourse about issues can be productive, and perhaps even lead to solving problems. Discourse about people involved in those issues is usually counterproductive, especially if it is in the form of invective, or name calling, or blame -- unless the objective is for the individual who engages in it to feel better about himself or herself. At least that's my observation over the course of my life, and I've rarely found anyone who can mount a convincing argument to the contrary.

I'm sure you were just as quick to point that out when it was open season on slamming Bush

[smc]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

I'm sure you were just as quick to point that out when it was open season on slamming Bush

Other than perhaps joining in the "fun" in a Sarah Palin thread during the election season of 2008, you'd be hard-pressed to find me violating this "rule" as I wrote it above with respect to "slamming Bush" anywhere on this forum. I may have chimed in on some policy discussions, but not in the way you are implying.

I can't take responsibility for the behavior of others. And yes, I reminded people many times during the Bush presidency that what he did mattered more than whether he was, for instance, the sharpest knife in the drawer.

[randolph]

Originally Posted by smc

Discourse about issues can be productive, and perhaps even lead to solving problems. Discourse about people involved in those issues is usually counterproductive, especially if it is in the form of invective, or name calling, or blame -- unless the objective is for the individual who engages in it to feel better about himself or herself. At least that's my observation over the course of my life, and I've rarely found anyone who can mount a convincing argument to the contrary.

Quite true, it seems politicizing and ranting about individuals is a way of smoke screening the real issues. We have critical issues facing us that are being covered over, ignored and distorted.
We no longer have enough domestic oil to supply our needs.
We spend billions to buy oil from Arabs
We out source the heart of our economy the industrial worker.
We consume far more than we need.
We are like a bunch of drunken sailors in a lifeboat. The booze is running out and we have nowhere to go.

Yet the politics is so intense that nothing is being done to ensure our future as a viable country.

[Tread]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Once Obama care is fully implemented my health insurance payments go up to around $1000 or more a year. Plus it adds another $trillion to our debt. This is less expensive how?

I don?t know what is made with Obama care, but how can it be more expensive to your insurance payments? What are they doing wrong with the Obama care that it doesn?t get closer to other countries in price?
The cost to start this should be taken by the government, the trillion you mentioned. There is no surprise that this cost much at the beginning, but this should be amortized over time (as smc mentioned).

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Rather than the government paying for everyone's health maintenance costs in addition to emergency care, why not do something smarter like outlawing high-fructose sugar? As the use of this sugar spread throughout the US obesity has also spread in exactly the same way. You get rid of this sugar and you greatly decrease all the problems that come with obesity, like heart disease, high blood pressure, diabetes, fatigue, etc. 1/3 of the people in this country are now obese, and it is still climbing. It used to be that 1-2% of children were obese. Now it's 13%! People would be healthier and feel better. Isn't that a lot cheaper?

Personally I would prefer marking the products combined with elucidation about fructose.
Especially products labelled with diet do lot harm, because people think they are doing their self something good with less sugar. It contains less sugar, but most of it is fructose instead of a better sugar mix and it has often more fat than non diet products.

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Yes that's true but I'm not as quick to throw out statistics as you are.

I don?t want to throw out statistics. I know what they show in general, but they do not work on an individual, there are always exceptions and everybody could be the exception.

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by Tread

I don?t know what is made with Obama care, but how can it be more expensive to your insurance payments? What are they doing wrong with the Obama care that it doesn?t get closer to other countries in price?
The cost to start this should be taken by the government, the trillion you mentioned. There is no surprise that this cost much at the beginning, but this should be amortized over time (as smc mentioned).

Most people who are trying to figure out why people don't like Obama care automatically assume it's those idiot republicans who just don't understand. They never consider that it may just happen to be a really bad plan. Other than the fact that dems got trounced in the elections, here's another indicator that Obama care will fail: Several large corporations are getting waivers from the government so they don't have to comply with the insurance changes.

Personally I would prefer marking the products combined with elucidation about fructose.

products are marked. There's just very little choice for people wanting to avoid fructose or the mystery diet crap.

[randolph]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Most people who are trying to figure out why people don't like Obama care automatically assume it's those idiot republicans who just don't understand. They never consider that it may just happen to be a really bad plan. Other than the fact that dems got trounced in the elections, here's another indicator that Obama care will fail: Several large corporations are getting waivers from the government so they don't have to comply with the insurance changes.

products are marked. There's just very little choice for people wanting to avoid fructose or the mystery diet crap.

The reason its a bad plan is because the medical industry wrote.

[TracyCoxx]

Our government is run by a bunch of idiots. TSA lets a bunch of soldiers coming back from Afghanistan carrying a bunch of serious weaponry. Yes, unloaded, but still... Here's the crazy part. They bar one of the soldiers from boarding because he has nail clippers, which could potentially be used as a weapon to take control of the plane.

http://www.redstate.com/erick/2010/1...r-tsa-outrage/

Do we really want these kinds of people running our health care system? That's another thing people from outside the US don't realize is how inept our government workers are.

A teacher in Florida was doing a magic trick for his students in which he made a toothpick disappear. He was fired for doing witchcraft. No joke. That's how bad it is here. The USA is a 3rd world country with the world's largest economy.

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by Tread

I don?t know what is made with Obama care, but how can it be more expensive to your insurance payments? What are they doing wrong with the Obama care that it doesn?t get closer to other countries in price?

Looks like ObamaCare is starting to have an effect already. I am employed and I have health insurance. Our insurance rates are going up this year more than usual. What's worse is I'm losing my doctor I've had for years because he's now completely off insurance. He's on this thing called MDVIP which means if I want to keep him as a doctor I have to pay him $1600/year and I get to see him as often as I want. This isn't just my doctor, I know a few other people who also have to find other doctors and while searching online for doctors I'm seeing that people are saying don't bother with this doctor - he's good but he's not on insurance anymore. I don't have $1600/yr to spend on a doctor so I have to find a doctor who's probably not as good. So like they've been saying about ObamaCare: decreased quality of service, and or higher medical bills. Obama, I thought you said if I liked my old health care I could keep it. I can't do that you SOB. It doesn't exist anymore.

[Tread]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Looks like ObamaCare is starting to have an effect already. I am employed and I have health insurance. Our insurance rates are going up this year more than usual. What's worse is I'm losing my doctor I've had for years because he's now completely off insurance. He's on this thing called MDVIP which means if I want to keep him as a doctor I have to pay him $1600/year and I get to see him as often as I want. This isn't just my doctor, I know a few other people who also have to find other doctors and while searching online for doctors I'm seeing that people are saying don't bother with this doctor - he's good but he's not on insurance anymore. I don't have $1600/yr to spend on a doctor so I have to find a doctor who's probably not as good. So like they've been saying about ObamaCare: decreased quality of service, and or higher medical bills. Obama, I thought you said if I liked my old health care I could keep it. I can't do that you SOB. It doesn't exist anymore.

I don?t know what you want to say. Is this an answer? Am I supposed to say something?
What has this to do with decreased quality of service? Is your old doctor the only good doctor in your range?
Is there a connection between ObamaCare or Obama and MDVIP I should know off?
This sounds like it was the doctor?s decision, and the doctor could have done this years earlier, if he/she wanted.
And why are you affronting Obama for that?

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by Tread

I don’t know what you want to say. Is this an answer? Am I supposed to say something?
What has this to do with decreased quality of service? Is your old doctor the only good doctor in your range?
Is there a connection between ObamaCare or Obama and MDVIP I should know off?
This sounds like it was the doctor’s decision, and the doctor could have done this years earlier, if he/she wanted.
And why are you affronting Obama for that?

Like I said it's not just my doctor. It looks like it's several doctors. I'm trying to get a feel for how widespread this is. But it looks like this is how things are going now.

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by randolph

Quite true, it seems politicizing and ranting about individuals is a way of smoke screening the real issues. We have critical issues facing us that are being covered over, ignored and distorted.
We no longer have enough domestic oil to supply our needs.
We spend billions to buy oil from Arabs
We out source the heart of our economy the industrial worker.
We consume far more than we need.
We are like a bunch of drunken sailors in a lifeboat. The booze is running out and we have nowhere to go.

Yet the politics is so intense that nothing is being done to ensure our future as a viable country.

This goes both ways. Not only should you attack at person's policies rather that attacking them, but when electing a president you should praise his policies rather than praising them. Very few people who voted for Obama even knew much about his policies. They just knew he was a cool guy. And he wasn't Bush. (Neither was McCain btw)