Liberal free for all coming to an end

[ts_addict]

Originally Posted by ila

You do pay for everything. It's just that you pay for it indirectly through your taxes.

I know, but say if you needed life saving drugs which are very expensive you wouldn't be able to get them would you? The NHS also gives us piece of mind as you know that no matter what (pretty much), you will get treated. Even people that are only here on holiday get treated for free iirc. Everyone is treated the same and has the access to drugs they may need.

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Because for one thing we already have a system where people get health insurance through their employers, and 85% of Americans are happy with the way this works.

For another thing, to change the system to a national health service would require everyone's health premiums to go up like $2000/year and the result would be degraded medical service.

And for another thing, our country is deep in debt and cannot afford the national health care system that was enacted.

I understand that, but if there was a shake-up of the rules it would be a lot fairer for everyone and there wouldn't be huge corporations trying to profit off someone's illness. Which I think is disgusting.

I often wonder how the american public let these corporations do what they do. They must spend so much money on propaganda.


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Thanks for the replies

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by ts_addict

I understand that, but if there was a shake-up of the rules it would be a lot fairer for everyone and there wouldn't be huge corporations trying to profit off someone's illness. Which I think is disgusting.

A huge corporation is not a synonym for evil. Corporations and small businesses are what drives our economy. Yes insurance companies make a profit, but so do doctors. They make a profit because someone has to manage the system that makes it possible for people to get medical treatment, and that someone provides a service. Is it disgusting that car mechanics make a profit off of other people's misfortunes? People are paid for the services they provide. If it was managed by the government then there would be no competition to keep prices low and to keep wasted spending to a manageable level. And again... we are maxed out in debt and cannot afford it. (Why does no one see that last sentence? Why is it completely irrelevant that there is a mountain of debt and all people can think of is what else to add to it?)

One way or another, whether it's through insurance premiums or taxes, people pay for medical treatment. Either insurance companies (aka evil corporations) receive a profit for getting you the medical treatment you need or a large portion of what you're paying through taxes is wasted on a one-size fits all government solution.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

A huge corporation is not a synonym for evil. Corporations and small businesses are what drives our economy. Yes insurance companies make a profit, but so do doctors. They make a profit because someone has to manage the system that makes it possible for people to get medical treatment, and that someone provides a service. Is it disgusting that car mechanics make a profit off of other people's misfortunes? People are paid for the services they provide. If it was managed by the government then there would be no competition to keep prices low and to keep wasted spending to a manageable level. And again... we are maxed out in debt and cannot afford it. (Why does no one see that last sentence? Why is it completely irrelevant that there is a mountain of debt and all people can think of is what else to add to it?)

Life/health and a busted car are hardly equal.

[The Conquistador]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Life/health and a busted car are hardly equal.

The principle is still the same though.

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Life/health and a busted car are hardly equal.

You're right. I'd rather have a sinus infection than a cracked engine block. Yes some medical problems are more serious, but many are not.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

You're right. I'd rather have a sinus infection than a cracked engine block. Yes some medical problems are more serious, but many are not.

@AngryPostman: It is hardly the same principle. That is exactly what my comment was meant to demonstrate. That is to say: there is no real misery when a hunk of metal with wheels you use to move around breaks down. If, however, your wife or boyfriend or friend becomes sickly, dangerously so, there is misery. We shouldn't profit from misery. It reminds me of funeral parlors goading patrons into buying extravagant coffins and who knows what else for their dead family, using the heightened emotions of the patrons against them.

Tracy: healthcare is about whatever serious health problems you may develop, not about something as easily dealt with as a sinus infection. You make light of health problems. Why? So as to avoid the matter of profiting from misery?

[The Conquistador]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

@AngryPostman: It is hardly the same principle. That is exactly what my comment was meant to demonstrate. That is to say: there is no real misery when a hunk of metal with wheels you use to move around breaks down. If, however, your wife or boyfriend or friend becomes sickly, dangerously so, there is misery. We shouldn't profit from misery. It reminds me of funeral parlors goading patrons into buying extravagant coffins and who knows what else for their dead family, using the heightened emotions of the patrons against them.

Actually, the principle is the same. The examples are different but the action of buying a product from someone selling something is the same. The products may have different uses but you buying the services from an auto mechanic and you buying the services from an insurance company does not change the fact that you bought something from someone. Appealing to emotion does not change the the principle of the action.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by TheAngryPostman

Actually, the principle is the same. The examples are different but the action of buying a product from someone selling something is the same. The products may have different uses but you buying the services from an auto mechanic and you buying the services from an insurance company does not change the fact that you bought something from someone. Appealing to emotion does not change the the principle of the action.

How can you possibly equate buying new shock absorbers to buying life-saving procedures? You may be buying in both cases, but to reduce it to merely the act of buying as opposed to taking its context into account is cold. It ignores the human.

No one can live alone. It is not possible. To live alone is to invite insanity. You don't hunt your own food. You're not a hermit and neither should you desire to be one. When you go to the supermarket you're depending on someone. When you go to the movie theater alone you're still depending on someone. Fractured as society in the US may be, have you noticed how you still clump together into areas? You may not speak to one another but you still live close to others. It's a little part of the gregarious animal in you expressing its natural/biological/evolutionary urge to live in groups, suffused in meaningful social interaction and validation--a little part of the gregarious animal expressing itself even when mired in bullshit like suburbs and the nuclear unit and the rending of ties after something like highschool.

Why shouldn't I appeal to emotion? I am not here blathering a la Glenn Beck. To remove compassion from any area of the human experience--and EVERYTHING is a part of the human experience--is a recipe for disaster.

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Tracy: healthcare is about whatever serious health problems you may develop, not about something as easily dealt with as a sinus infection. You make light of health problems. Why? So as to avoid the matter of profiting from misery?

I didn't say they were all minor, just a lot of health issues are. For the health issues that are minor like a sinus infection and less of a pain to deal with than repairing your car, is it ok in your mind for insurance companies to profit from getting your doctor paid?