Liberal free for all coming to an end

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by ts_addict

Could an American answer a question for me please... Why is it that people over there don't like the idea of having a national health service?

Our (UK) NHS service is something we couldn't live without and if the government said we had to pay for everything there would be riots.

Because for one thing we already have a system where people get health insurance through their employers, and 85% of Americans are happy with the way this works.

For another thing, to change the system to a national health service would require everyone's health premiums to go up like $2000/year and the result would be degraded medical service.

And for another thing, our country is deep in debt and cannot afford the national health care system that was enacted.

[randolph]

SMC made the point, the Repubs don't want to reveal the vast amount of corporate secret funding for their campaigns. When the voters realize that most of the funding comes from BP, the chamber of commerce and the likes of the Kock brothers they may decide to vote for someone else.

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by randolph

SMC made the point, the Repubs don't want to reveal the vast amount of corporate secret funding for their campaigns. When the voters realize that most of the funding comes from BP, the chamber of commerce and the likes of the Kock brothers they may decide to vote for someone else.

Ok, so if voters aren't going to vote for republicans when they see this, and they aren't going to vote for democrats when they see how much funding comes from George Soros and Media Matters and MoveOn.org and hollywood, etc, then who will they vote for? Libertarian?

[randolph]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Ok, so if voters aren't going to vote for republicans when they see this, and they aren't going to vote for democrats when they see how much funding comes from George Soros and Media Matters and MoveOn.org and hollywood, etc, then who will they vote for? Libertarian?

You got it!
We need a third party that represents us, the working middle class.
I am fed up with both parties but I cant take the Tea Party. I understand the outrage of the Tea Party but they are clueless and pawns of the big guys. We need to impeach the Supreme Court Justices that voted for the corporate flooding of money into the election system.
We also need to change the election system so members of congress get elected for only one term of six years and cant run for reelection. This would eliminate a lot of this campaigning crap. If we don't like what they are doing during their six year term, impeach them.
We have to do something or we are going to lose not only our freedom but the ability to make a living.

[ts_addict]

Originally Posted by ila

You do pay for everything. It's just that you pay for it indirectly through your taxes.

I know, but say if you needed life saving drugs which are very expensive you wouldn't be able to get them would you? The NHS also gives us piece of mind as you know that no matter what (pretty much), you will get treated. Even people that are only here on holiday get treated for free iirc. Everyone is treated the same and has the access to drugs they may need.

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Because for one thing we already have a system where people get health insurance through their employers, and 85% of Americans are happy with the way this works.

For another thing, to change the system to a national health service would require everyone's health premiums to go up like $2000/year and the result would be degraded medical service.

And for another thing, our country is deep in debt and cannot afford the national health care system that was enacted.

I understand that, but if there was a shake-up of the rules it would be a lot fairer for everyone and there wouldn't be huge corporations trying to profit off someone's illness. Which I think is disgusting.

I often wonder how the american public let these corporations do what they do. They must spend so much money on propaganda.


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Thanks for the replies

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by ts_addict

I understand that, but if there was a shake-up of the rules it would be a lot fairer for everyone and there wouldn't be huge corporations trying to profit off someone's illness. Which I think is disgusting.

A huge corporation is not a synonym for evil. Corporations and small businesses are what drives our economy. Yes insurance companies make a profit, but so do doctors. They make a profit because someone has to manage the system that makes it possible for people to get medical treatment, and that someone provides a service. Is it disgusting that car mechanics make a profit off of other people's misfortunes? People are paid for the services they provide. If it was managed by the government then there would be no competition to keep prices low and to keep wasted spending to a manageable level. And again... we are maxed out in debt and cannot afford it. (Why does no one see that last sentence? Why is it completely irrelevant that there is a mountain of debt and all people can think of is what else to add to it?)

One way or another, whether it's through insurance premiums or taxes, people pay for medical treatment. Either insurance companies (aka evil corporations) receive a profit for getting you the medical treatment you need or a large portion of what you're paying through taxes is wasted on a one-size fits all government solution.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

A huge corporation is not a synonym for evil. Corporations and small businesses are what drives our economy. Yes insurance companies make a profit, but so do doctors. They make a profit because someone has to manage the system that makes it possible for people to get medical treatment, and that someone provides a service. Is it disgusting that car mechanics make a profit off of other people's misfortunes? People are paid for the services they provide. If it was managed by the government then there would be no competition to keep prices low and to keep wasted spending to a manageable level. And again... we are maxed out in debt and cannot afford it. (Why does no one see that last sentence? Why is it completely irrelevant that there is a mountain of debt and all people can think of is what else to add to it?)

Life/health and a busted car are hardly equal.

[The Conquistador]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Life/health and a busted car are hardly equal.

The principle is still the same though.

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Life/health and a busted car are hardly equal.

You're right. I'd rather have a sinus infection than a cracked engine block. Yes some medical problems are more serious, but many are not.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

You're right. I'd rather have a sinus infection than a cracked engine block. Yes some medical problems are more serious, but many are not.

@AngryPostman: It is hardly the same principle. That is exactly what my comment was meant to demonstrate. That is to say: there is no real misery when a hunk of metal with wheels you use to move around breaks down. If, however, your wife or boyfriend or friend becomes sickly, dangerously so, there is misery. We shouldn't profit from misery. It reminds me of funeral parlors goading patrons into buying extravagant coffins and who knows what else for their dead family, using the heightened emotions of the patrons against them.

Tracy: healthcare is about whatever serious health problems you may develop, not about something as easily dealt with as a sinus infection. You make light of health problems. Why? So as to avoid the matter of profiting from misery?

[The Conquistador]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

@AngryPostman: It is hardly the same principle. That is exactly what my comment was meant to demonstrate. That is to say: there is no real misery when a hunk of metal with wheels you use to move around breaks down. If, however, your wife or boyfriend or friend becomes sickly, dangerously so, there is misery. We shouldn't profit from misery. It reminds me of funeral parlors goading patrons into buying extravagant coffins and who knows what else for their dead family, using the heightened emotions of the patrons against them.

Actually, the principle is the same. The examples are different but the action of buying a product from someone selling something is the same. The products may have different uses but you buying the services from an auto mechanic and you buying the services from an insurance company does not change the fact that you bought something from someone. Appealing to emotion does not change the the principle of the action.

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Tracy: healthcare is about whatever serious health problems you may develop, not about something as easily dealt with as a sinus infection. You make light of health problems. Why? So as to avoid the matter of profiting from misery?

I didn't say they were all minor, just a lot of health issues are. For the health issues that are minor like a sinus infection and less of a pain to deal with than repairing your car, is it ok in your mind for insurance companies to profit from getting your doctor paid?