Liberal free for all coming to an end

[Amy]

Does any American on these forums REALLY want these right-wing nuts, with their massive anti-LGBT agenda to have any more control than they currently do (Like blocking bills which are PART OF THEIR OWN MANIFESTO just because the other party is pushing them)?

Good luck when you need to use an overseas proxy to get to this site.

And as for national healthcare - I'll stay in a country where my taxes pay for SRS, instead of tax breaks for billionaires, thanks.

[smc]

Nothing like the ahistorical perspective to brighten a day and restore one's faith in the American people.

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by Amy

Does any American on these forums REALLY want these right-wing nuts, with their massive anti-LGBT agenda to have any more control than they currently do

BO hasn't come out in favor of gay marriage either. And it doesn't have to be the right wing nuts. The political spectrum doesn't just go left and right. Vote conservative libertarian. It is actually possible to have someone who believes in limited government that doesn't want the government's nose in your personal affairs. In fact... those two things kind of go hand in hand no? There is a huge grassroots uprising prompted by BO's madness that isn't necessarily aligned with the republican party.

Originally Posted by Amy

(Like blocking bills which are PART OF THEIR OWN MANIFESTO just because the other party is pushing them)?

Bills which were full of things they could not support as well.

Originally Posted by Amy

Good luck when you need to use an overseas proxy to get to this site.

What's this about?

Originally Posted by Amy

And as for national healthcare - I'll stay in a country where my taxes pay for SRS, instead of tax breaks for billionaires, thanks.

National health care would probably be a nice thing to have... AS LONG AS it's at least up to the quality we have now, and we can afford it. When national health care and the other stimulus packages are threatening the stability of the dollar it's time to wake up and smell the coffee.

[franalexes]

Tracy, I'm with you. There won't be a massive change in taxes or laws. That won't happen. The activists on the right should not be feared. They are just leaning hard on the rudder, but they are few. The result will be enough to get a right turn. Obama has shown his true colors; and it ain't pretty.

[randolph]

If the Repubs succeed in taking over the Gov with massive funding from foreign interests then its over for the middle class. We will be sweeping the floors of the mansions of the rich. We will have a Plutocracy. Blackwater types will be used to suppress any opposition. This will be great for gun lovers. Like the Taliban, they can cruise the streets in Humvees to enforce compliance. Gays, transsexuals, atheists and all others that do not fit the Sarah Palin vision of a pure America will be marginalized. When the blackwaters show up at my door, I will be fully loaded and ready for them.

Liberals of the world unite!

http://pol.moveon.org/republicorp_or...73-HAMxZnx&t=4

[franalexes]

Originally Posted by randolph

If the Repubs succeed in taking over the Gov with massive funding from foreign interests then its over for the middle class. We will be sweeping the floors of the mansions of the rich. We will have a Plutocracy. Blackwater types will be used to suppress any opposition. This will be great for gun lovers. Like the Taliban, they can cruise the streets in Humvees to enforce compliance. Gays, transsexuals, atheists and all others that do not fit the Sarah Palin vision of a pure America will be marginalized. When the blackwaters show up at my door, I will be fully loaded and ready for them.

Liberals of the world unite!

http://pol.moveon.org/republicorp_or...73-HAMxZnx&t=4

I think you forget that it was the Obama admin' that used the IRS to silence Joe the plumber.

[The Conquistador]

Expanding government is the problem here. Alot of the problems we have now are due to increasing fed meddling in affairs that should have been handled by the states or by people themselves.

Anyone who thinks it is about Republicans versus Democrats or Liberals versus Conservatives are either blind or ignorant of what is going on. Repubs or Dems; they are just two different faces of the same shitheap.

[randolph]

It mystifies me why conservatives love to be screwed by Republicans but scream to high heaven when screwed by Democrats.

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by randolph

If the Repubs succeed in taking over the Gov with massive funding from foreign interests then its over for the middle class.

Proof? With the grass roots movement that's going on, I don't see why republicans would need to resort to foreign funding sources. Do you have evidence that this is anything more than dems flinging mud to see what sticks?

Originally Posted by randolph

Blackwater types will be used to suppress any opposition. This will be great for gun lovers. Like the Taliban, they can cruise the streets in Humvees to enforce compliance. Gays, transsexuals, atheists and all others that do not fit the Sarah Palin vision of a pure America will be marginalized. When the blackwaters show up at my door, I will be fully loaded and ready for them.

Oh boy lol. I think your biased media likes to set up Sarah Palin as the voice of republicans, but she's not.

Originally Posted by randolph

http://pol.moveon.org/republicorp_or...73-HAMxZnx&t=4

I've got one for you that's even worse. And what's more is it's true:
Tim Geithner, BO's secretary of treasury, allowed Steven Friedman to oversee Goldman Sachs. Who's Friedman? Former chairman of Goldman Sachs and was on the board of directors. Geithner OK'd this conflict of interest. Geithner also allows Friedman to keep his 52000 shares of Goldman Sachs stock while he oversees Goldman Sachs. Goldman Sachs stock rose from $78/share to $167 per share during the first year of Obama's administration.

The lobbyist for Goldman Sachs is Michael Pease. He joined the director of government affairs. They hired him because their previous lobbyist, Mark Patterson, has been named the chief of staff for Timothy Geithner. Michael Pease is now in Barney Frank's office.

The reality of democrat political and business practices is far worse than anything moveon can make up about republicans.

[randolph]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Proof? With the grass roots movement that's going on, I don't see why republicans would need to resort to foreign funding sources. Do you have evidence that this is anything more than dems flinging mud to see what sticks?

Oh boy lol. I think your biased media likes to set up Sarah Palin as the voice of republicans, but she's not.


I've got one for you that's even worse. And what's more is it's true:
Tim Geithner, BO's secretary of treasury, allowed Steven Friedman to oversee Goldman Sachs. Who's Friedman? Former chairman of Goldman Sachs and was on the board of directors. Geithner OK'd this conflict of interest. Geithner also allows Friedman to keep his 52000 shares of Goldman Sachs stock while he oversees Goldman Sachs. Goldman Sachs stock rose from $78/share to $167 per share during the first year of Obama's administration.

The lobbyist for Goldman Sachs is Michael Pease. He joined the director of government affairs. They hired him because their previous lobbyist, Mark Patterson, has been named the chief of staff for Timothy Geithner. Michael Pease is now in Barney Frank's office.

The reality of democrat political and business practices is far worse than anything moveon can make up about republicans.

Yes, the situation with the investment banks is appalling. Those bastards should be in jail, instead its business as usual. The Bush administration started pouring money over these banks and the Obama admin. has continued it. Could the economy have been saved by doing something else? What would have happened if these banks had not been bailed out and the ringleaders sent to jail?
Do you have an answer, Tracy?

[randolph]

I lost faith in Obama when he appointed the chief pesticide lobbyist as our agricultural representative in foreign affairs. Michell's "organic" garden is just window dressing for the public.
We knew when Bush was elected that we would be screwed, we thought Obama would at least take us out to dinner before screwing us, such is not the case.

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by randolph

Yes, the situation with the investment banks is appalling. Those bastards should be in jail, instead its business as usual. The Bush administration started pouring money over these banks and the Obama admin. has continued it. Could the economy have been saved by doing something else? What would have happened if these banks had not been bailed out and the ringleaders sent to jail?
Do you have an answer, Tracy?

My answer would be to listen to Ron Paul:
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/wash...ul-bailou.html

BO misplaced the blame so the real problem isn't really going to be fixed and what's more, he hasn't done anything to prevent it from happening again.

[Amy]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

National health care would probably be a nice thing to have... AS LONG AS it's at least up to the quality we have now, and we can afford it.

Well, couldn't make it much lower.

WHO figures on quality of healthcare by country show a definite trend:

Socialised Healthcare
1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
33 Chile
34 Denmark
36 Costa Rica


SEMI-socialised/privatised
6 Singapore
10 Japan
24 Cyprus
28 Israel
32 Australia
35 Dominica
37 United States of America

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

When national health care and the other stimulus packages are threatening the stability of the dollar it's time to wake up and smell the coffee.

Oh, indeed. Like doing stuff such as taking the entire social security surplus of over 2 trillion dollars which would be enough to cover the next few decades and...spending it...on the...armed forces...?

Or giving the rich tax cuts so they can invest more money in China and India and get rid of more American jobs?

Damn right stuff like that needs to be dealt with to prevent harming your economy.

[franalexes]

I find it amazing that foriegners act as the experts on American government.

Explain please why Cleveland, Ohio is the medical center of choice for Canada.

[desirouspussy]

Originally Posted by franalexes

I find it amazing that foriegners act as the experts on American government.

It isn't really all that amazing, Fran. People in Europe are generally very well informed on American government. That is because American policy affects the people on this side of the ocean almost as much as you.
Take for instance the current financial crises that was triggered in the US but now affects us all. Many European countries have troops stationed in Afganistan simply because they cannot afford to be on bad terms with the US. That is unfortunately what politics is all about.

But while we're rather well informed on American politics, it is often hard for us to understand the American way. We can for instance not understand that in a country as rich as the US, where some are earning billions of dollars while trillions are wasted on useless wars, millions of people cannot afford to take out health insurance. It is even harder to understand for us that a President who is trying to rectify this horrible situation is heavily criticized by those doing well. I guess we just don't get that over here.

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by GGadmirer

It is even harder to understand for us that a President who is trying to rectify this horrible situation is heavily criticized by those doing well. I guess we just don't get that over here.

It's the way he's going about it. You don't have congress pass thousand page health care packages that affect people's health and 1/6 of the nations economy without reading it after making campaign promises of no more back room deals. Seriously, the congressmen voting on it did not know what was in it. That's insane.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV-05TLiiLU

The other problem is that the Constitution does not grant the government power to force people to buy health insurance. A federal judge has already ruled on this, so that has to be resolved.

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by Amy

Well, couldn't make it much lower.

WHO figures on quality of healthcare by country show a definite trend:

Socialised Healthcare
1 France
...

And why would the US want to rank high on a list of countries with socialized healthcare?

Originally Posted by Amy

Oh, indeed. Like doing stuff such as taking the entire social security surplus of over 2 trillion dollars which would be enough to cover the next few decades and...spending it...on the...armed forces...?

Nope, sorry. The entire gulf war cost less than half that.

Originally Posted by Amy

Or giving the rich tax cuts so they can invest more money in China and India and get rid of more American jobs?

The rich pay the vast majority of the taxes. What kind of cuts are you talking about? Raising taxes, like BO wants to do is what will get corporations to move to other countries. When BO outspent Bush's 8 years by 2.5 times in 2 months and raised our debt, China ended up owning even more of the US. So again, what are you talking about?