Some scary facts

[johndowe]

Hi there.

This was about "The cowards we date" and i didn't say objectionable, i mean you were a bit harsh and quick to judge, and if you're not in the heat of the moment with all the emotions that it generates, you usually only get a partial view of the event.

Since the age of 16, i haven't taken any shit from anybody, not my bosses, not my co workers, not my freinds, not my girlfreinds, not my parents.

The only one that i let give me shit once, was my mom and she did paid for it and she did appologise, i only appologised 5 years later, and she did admit that she was wrong.

So if someone were to challenge me, i would do what i did many times in the past, i would try to defuse the situation, but not in a weak way, and if push comes to shove then let's fight.

About the "freind" warning me about my tg date.

Well, never been in that situation, i like to think i would handle the situation as i always do, not taking shit, but if he was my friend he wouldn't disrespect me by mockingly pointing out that fact, and if he was only an acquintance i'd do what i said previously.

JohnDowe.

[Bionca]

I have been dating guys for quite some time, so my judgment is anything but "quick" - harsh, probably. Quick or without reason not even close.

I don't want to come across as particularly angry or sulky, so I won't go into details. The thing is, I have found that when things get tough, guys turn tail and run away. Guys lie about us to coworkers, deny knowing us, pretend not to know us if we get clocked. They seem to be more interested in protecting their image or standing, even among strangers than supporting or respecting their TG companion.

I can't count the number of guys who honestly used "dirty secret" or something close when talking about me or my friends. Secrets and shame make men cowards. If you visit some of the LadyBoy forums, the guys who go to Thailand call the walk from the bar to the hotel "the Walk of Shame" and give each other advice on hotels with side doors so their LB can sneak into the room and they won't be embarrassed at the from desk.

Read this:
http://www.xbiz.com/articles/99429/transsexual

The guy who started Grooby, and is probably more familiar with guy who are into TGs, talks about "admirers". It's not a very flattering picture he paints, but in my observations he isn't far off, and his description probably won't bother the majority of guys here.

[sesame]

Originally Posted by Bionca in Laughingriotgirls

Removing the influence of the gatekeeper medical establishment who have a vested interest in making SRS not just an option, but THE goal for Trans*.

Are you accusing the medical dept. and the Govt along with it, of forcing the onerous fiscal burden of SRS upon the Tgirls? After all its not a passing fashion trend to alter the genital organs!! It's sort of a legal passport for acknowledgment as a female*. Only the Govt. policy-makers have the power to set it down as the Law.

Originally Posted by Bionca in Laughingriotgirls

Where are the "Admirers"? Where were the guys who objectify bodies like mine? Where were the guys who make money off of bodies like mine? Where were the guys who love/date/fuck/lust after gals like me?

Whats up with your ultra aggressive mood, Miss B? You sound so pissed off these days!

[johndowe]

Hi there.

Bionca, this isn't a perfet world, most people are weak, you seem not to be, since i don't know you that's all i can say, if you date a weak person and you know it, i would hope you wouldn't expect him to be a tower of strength when push comes to shove, your boyfreind and all others who like shemales but don't speak up for you, usually don't even speak up for themselves, how can you expect them to speak up for you? They are afraid of life, they are afraid of not fitting in, they embrace the status quo, because they are afraid of change, as i think about this, i'm begining to think you were right and i was wrong, anyway there are alot more follower than leaders, and there is stigma to being labeled gay, as in gay bashing, a little undesrtanding can go a long way in resolving problems.

Also ask your brothers, they should be able to confirm this, most guys don't know how to fight, and because of that, avoid confrontations, better be a live coward than a dead hero, but what they don't realise is that if they were to stand up for themselves one in a while they wouldn't become dead heroes, but maby they would gain a little respect for themdelves and maby a bit of self respect? And even if they get beat up, at least they would have stood up for something, but as in pretty much everything the first time is usually the hardest.

In conclusion, i think we were both a bit harsh, you in judging those who didn't stand-up for you and other t-girls and me for reacting to your harshness, but you could stand to chill out a bit.

JohnDowe.

[Bionca]

Originally Posted by johndowe

Hi there.

Bionca, this isn't a perfet world, most people are weak, you seem not to be, since i don't know you that's all i can say, if you date a weak person and you know it, i would hope you wouldn't expect him to be a tower of strength when push comes to shove, your boyfreind and all others who like shemales but don't speak up for you, usually don't even speak up for themselves, how can you expect them to speak up for you? They are afraid of life, they are afraid of not fitting in, they embrace the status quo, because they are afraid of change, as i think about this, i'm begining to think you were right and i was wrong, anyway there are alot more follower than leaders, and there is stigma to being labeled gay, as in gay bashing, a little undesrtanding can go a long way in resolving problems.

Also ask your brothers, they should be able to confirm this, most guys don't know how to fight, and because of that, avoid confrontations, better be a live coward than a dead hero, but what they don't realise is that if they were to stand up for themselves one in a while they wouldn't become dead heroes, but maby they would gain a little respect for themdelves and maby a bit of self respect? And even if they get beat up, at least they would have stood up for something, but as in pretty much everything the first time is usually the hardest.

In conclusion, i think we were both a bit harsh, you in judging those who didn't stand-up for you and other t-girls and me for reacting to your harshness, but you could stand to chill out a bit.

JohnDowe.

One should expect the person they are dating to respect them enough to defend them, atleast verbally. I'm not expecting someone to take a bullet for me, I do expect that they won't lie about knowing me.

I absolutely understand that there is a stigma attached to being thought of as gay. To the general population, I'm super-ultra-gay. Also, I lived through that part - what else were the boys in school to think of me growing up? So that fear, that stigma is something every trans woman deals with or has has had to deal with. We just don't have the option to deny knowing us, or run back to our wife/gf/friends if things get heavy.

As far as the talk of violence, it isn't guys who date trans women getting beaten and murdered. It's the trans women. It isn't guys who date trans women who have a 70% rate of being sexually assaulted. Forgive me if I find it difficult to feel sympathy for shame that obviously must come from dating me after I mourned the loss of so many women - women who could have just as easily been me. Forgive me if I can't relate to the pain of men who may have to disclose their means of income who can't put up a notice on their porn site for one day out of a year. Forgive me if I can't help but notice that this same shame and pain is not shared by many of the women who date gals like me.

[johndowe]

Hi there.

I didn't say you should (over) sympathise, i said understanding, and be a bit less harsh.

And i notice that we ARE off subject, someone will be giving us a warning, so if you want to continue this conversation start a new thread.

JohnDowe.

[ila]

I would like to wade into the ongoing controversy here. There are too many points raised to address each one individually so I'll reply generally.

First I would like to say that Bionca doesn't despise or hate all men. Anyone who gets to know Bionca will know that she has a very good relationship with men. A reading of her posts and her blog shows that she is consistent in what she says. Bionca has said that she does not like the cowards who date transwoman and then deny that they know the woman, will not defend them, are afraid to be seen with them, and assault the women that they say they care about. Bionca has every right to feel this way about cowards.

As men we cannot even come close to understanding what transwomen go through every minute of every day. We should show more sensitivity and understanding. And most of all it's time we stood up for transwomen each and every day.

I have great respect for every transwoman. Surely the men on this site can help in every little way possible. Start by acknowledging Transgender Day of Remembrance. Stand up for transwomen every time you hear derogatory comments about them (I do now and I'm happy to do so). Talk about trans issues when you can (I do that too). You will be surprised how much your friends and co-workers are willing to listen.

[Bionca]

Originally Posted by sesame

Are you accusing the medical dept. and the Govt along with it, of forcing the onerous fiscal burden of SRS upon the Tgirls? After all its not a passing fashion trend to alter the genital organs!! It's sort of a legal passport for acknowledgment as a female*. Only the Govt. policy-makers have the power to set it down as the Law.

1) I'm stating that lots of medical "experts" have a financial investment in SRS. To the point where if a trans women isn't expressing an undying desire to go that route, they often will deny treatment all together. They are also in a position where a note from them is required by the government or insurance and credit card industries to modify any gender markers.

2) The government has set up a system where official documentation is hinged on completing SRS. This is an expensive surgery thta is not covered by insurance in the US. With conflicting documentation, getting a job to pay for the surgery is pretty difficult, so lots of women who need to go that route are in a position where their means are limited and legal/mainstream employment is denied them.

[Bionca]

It should be noted that the last post on my blog was written some time after I attended the Transgender Day of Remembrance, where people get together and read the names of trans women who were murdered the previous year and mourn their passing as well as the women who went unreported.

There were probably 200 people in the church where this was held. This was attended by mostly trans women. In addition to the trans women, in attendance were a number of trans lesbians with their GG partners, a couple guys from the local GLBT groups, the minister of the church, some young men and women probably from the university who had to be there for a class, and a fair representation of trans men. NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON who I could identify as a male partner of a trans women was there - zero. This is pretty much the same as when I lived in Chicago. The guys don't show up and it made me angry.