Do You Guys Really Care???

[GroobyKrissy]

Originally Posted by Jenae LaTorque

So, where is the Tgirl-Sexworker Union? If they could organize and follow the path blazed by other unions, they might have a chance. Til then, they can only speak to our conscience as Krissy does here. Or....

Hiya Jenae

I actually like this idea but I don't think many Tgirls would support such an organization. One of the major obstacles to this is how catty we Tgirls can be even among ourselves. Let's face the facts, we have a very dysfunctional community and although there are small pockets of 'sisterhood' to be found, on the whole, it's a 'cat eat cat' world out there.

We can't even agree on terms we use to describe ourselves... which, BTW, I've started a thread on in the General Discussion area.

[TS_aficionado]

@GroobyKrissy:

It's hard to agree with you seeing this vicious RIAA (and MPAA) campaign. This maniacal rampage made a lot of people (myself included) rethink the idea of paying for anything at all online, not just music and movies.

[GroobyKrissy]

Originally Posted by TS_aficionado

@GroobyKrissy:

It's hard to agree with you seeing this vicious RIAA (and MPAA) campaign. This maniacal rampage made a lot of people (myself included) rethink the idea of paying for anything at all online, not just music and movies.

Vicious?

I don't think you can compare the TS Industry with the campaigns of the record executives... two completely different industries with VAST differences in property.

However... property rights should be observed and respected in any case. Like I stated earlier, you don't go around stealing gasoline just because you think the price is unfair or you don't walk into a store and steal a suit even though you know it probably cost the store a fraction of the price. You just don't. Why? Maybe because you're scared of prosecution, or being caught, or it's a personal moral decision.

Theft is theft. For some reason, the same person that would never go on a shoplifting spree thinks nothing of downloading an entire site's content and reposting it somewhere else for others to use. That is theft, it is illegal, and people should be prosecuted for it. Many people think that they'll never be caught or if they are, nothing will happen. This is changing rapidly and more and more people are seeing the consequences of their KNOWING actions. Almost all sites record IP Addresses now and local authorities are become more and more helpful in stopping online copyright infringements.

I'm not saying I agree with prosecuting a 15 year old kid who is downloading songs or a mother with children who claims not to have known better BUT... I think you would have a completely different point of view if it was your livelihood that was being whittled away by people stealing and reposting your content.

Are you saying that people shouldn't have the right to protect their copyrighted material?

[TS_aficionado]

I don't think you can compare the TS Industry with the campaigns of the record executives... two completely different industries with VAST differences in property.

That's true of course, but I was speaking in general since you were too.

property rights should be observed and respected in any case.

That was the case years ago. The age of the internet radically changed the attitudes towards this concept. That's why the music and movie industries are bleeding money: because they could not adapt to this new reality.

you don't walk into a store and steal a suit even though you know it probably cost the store a fraction of the price.

There's a difference. If you steal a suit, it disappears.

the same person that would never go on a shoplifting spree thinks nothing of downloading an entire site's content and reposting it somewhere else for others to use.

On principle, I think that's wrong, especially in the cases of smaller up-and-coming websites. But I'll be honest with you, with WMG pressuring youtube to remove songs, the RIAA's absurd campaign to stop music piracy, which includes them demanding a woman be charged hundreds of thousands of dollars for a few songs, and even US law itself that puts money above humans (5 years for pirating a movie?), the whole idea of copyright has become a grotesque capitalist monster that's devouring people alive.

Many people think that they'll never be caught or if they are, nothing will happen. This is changing rapidly

Actually it isn't. Even the RIAA is almost giving up on those lawsuits and focusing rather on pressuring ISP's to stop piracy. There's simply no use going against this new wave. Not prosecution or anything will stop it. Not even new technologies can do any good, as pirates have found ways to break every single DRM and anti-piracy measure ever conceived. The only way for property owners to survive is to find ways to adapt.

I think you would have a completely different point of view if it was your livelihood that was being whittled away by people stealing and reposting your content.

Personally I think it would be very wrong if someone did that to you. I know you have a website and it seems like an independent startup. Someone copying and pasting your content would be an immoral thing to do IMO and could not be defended. My focus, however, was on mega conglomerates steamrolling average citizens over a few songs.

Are you saying that people shouldn't have the right to protect their copyrighted material?

As is clear by now, I think they do, but not up to the insane level the RIAA is doing.

[GroobyKrissy]

@ TS_aficionado

I'm not going to do a quotation since that would make for one long post...

I don't know... the line has to be drawn somewhere and I think the overwhelming majority of musicians, artists, photographers, videographers, webmasters, content producers, etc. out there would love to see these cases prosecuted more fully. The reality is that there just isn't funding for these crimes which, as a whole, are viewed by law enforcement as 'victimless.' (I was told as much by a Salem, OR detective who I gave the address, IP address and etc. to for someone who had downloaded and reposted a huge collection of videos from my site and refused to check it out).

Now... I totally understand where you've become jaded by prosecutors trying to make 'examples' out of small, rinky dinky cases like the ones you and I mentioned earlier. And, like I said earlier, I don't agree with wanting to put a felony record of theft on some 15 year old's record for downloading songs. But, when it comes to people who run torrents and boards which actively promote content piracy and just laugh at you when you send them an email or letter asking them to remove links... I say, throw the book at them.

I don't see this as a helpless wave of technology which we all have to adapt to. Technology criminals are (for the most part) smart. We have to become smarter. People will always find a way to override safeguards, but, the average porn surfer isn't going to spend the time to learn how to defeat a DRM... because the average porn user is just good ol, blue collar joe blow wanting to get off. I like him. He wants his porn and a few minutes of pleasure. And I want to help him.

The suit doesn't disappear... the costs are still VERY apparent to the store owner. He may have another one in stock but he's still out the cost AND profit for the original. With digital media, the costs are even higher because it is an ongoing crime. Who knows how many people viewing a stolen movie would have joined a site otherwise? It's very difficult to put a price on it.

When I was younger and Napster was the brand new shiny thing... I was the first to jump in line and say, wow... free stuff! How cool! I must have downloaded a ton of music. And, for a long time, I never bought a CD. Then, I started a site and started seeing my content pop up on file-sharing sites. That was the end of my support of Napster and other sites encouraging free content sharing. Don't get me wrong, there are legitimate things going on on some of those sites but I do NOT support illegal content sharing in any way. It hurts me, it hurts the industry, and in the long run, it hurts the legitimate purchasers of the content as sites have to raise prices to make up for lost revenue, just like stores pass on the prices of 'shrinkage' (shoplifting), doctors pass on the prices of insurance, etc.

[charlietwobeans]

Originally Posted by seanchai

Actually for over 12 years we've been offering alternative ways to pay, including sending cash, money orders or cashiers checks directly to us ... I think we are one of the few porn companies to do this.
Take a look at http://www.grooby.com/paybymail.html for discounts!

Just FYI - I also noticed a few non-porn sites taking Amazon credit (which you can get at more than a few places in lieu of cash). I assume this credit can be applied to their lease of Amazon services (E3, etc.), which I think is a pretty interesting way of doing things - creates a whole new thread of an economy, much like Second Life.

As for the original post, sans all the vitriol and ugly back-and-forth, I wanted to apologize to Krissy and to all the other independent providers because I did post advocating only free sites. I was only thinking about the major pay sites when I posted that, and was definitely not thinking about the thousands of independent, creative, intriguing people that spend their days and nights crafting sites like Krissy's and certainly deserve compensation for it.

I, like many, don't have the luxury of privacy so that credit cards can read whatever they want, so the option is not there for me.

On a final note, I don't really get the anger directed toward Krissy and others on their position, so I will leave it alone. Enough has been said already.

[TS_aficionado]

I see what you're saying Krissy. Long story short: I believe it's very wrong if someone did that to you (or any small independent company that really needs the money). But RIAA and MPAA have absolutely no sympathy from me over any losses they incur.

Best of luck with your website.

[hankhavelock]

I've been called an idiot and a bigot... I'm probably both, but one thing I'm not, and that's a hypocrite.

To have porn-producers stand up here with the audacity to ask "whether we care about trans*women" is simply the worst kind of hypocracy I've so far witnessed at this good forum. The most exploitatious multi-dollar business trying to come ahead with a humane face... "If you truly care about trannies, then buy my dirty movies..."

Please... it's like "if you love kids, then become a pedophile..."

Not only is it completely hollow, but it's also the same old story - and the same old gasoline on the branding-fire that trans*women are good for nothing but porn... you porn-kings harm transsexuality more than you realize - not that I have any thoughts that you give a flying fuck...

No, the porn-industry can have its kicks - porn and prostitution are fine, as long as the ladies are in it of their own free will. Anyone here should by now know that I'm a very liberal and broad-minded guy.

But when hypocracy gets institutionalized and made into something mundane, and especially when it's used to bash ppl on their heads, then I react.

If I'm the only one here who can grasp the grotesqueness of this entire thread, then so be it, and then there is, indeed, a rather long way for trans*emancipation. If you all fall on your asses in appreciation of a porn-predator, whos actions are counter-productive to the branding of transsexuality, then I can only cry. But it sure as shit is not gonna stop ME from calling the bluff.

I've read a lot of shit here, but this thread takes the price. To THINK that someone will even DARE to post themselves as caring about transsexuality "if you just buy my sleazy movies" is absolutely unacceptable.

I dunno how many of you good people here actually have a life that includes transsexuality (a minority, for sure), but if you did, then you'd realize the pain and the seriousness of the matter - the pain of constantly being viewed as a sex object... HOT but not worthy of real and deep emotions. A short fuck, sure, but don't tell anyone...

Not least due to a porn industry that has little care for the well-being of anyone but the mob who owns it.

So STOP the bullshit... please! And get a perspective on this!

What I read here hurts me deeply in my heart - and no matter how deeply I may hurt, it's NOTHING compared to the daily transsexual pain.

You should be ashamed of yourselves.

Hank

[GroobyKrissy]

Originally Posted by hankhavelock

Please... it's like "if you love kids, then become a pedophile."

I dislike when threads drag on and on for pages but this deserves a response.

This is, quite simply one of the most ignorant and illogical statements I have EVER heard and shows that you have no basic grasp of reality. I think it's clear to ANYONE who reads a statement like that why it's just wrong that I'm not even going to dignify it with a response. Hank, you need help if that is the way you look at life.

So... STILL waiting to hear from you about what YOU do to help the TS community? Funny you should be here on a largely PORN centered board with these strong anti-porn statements. And, please... let's talk hypocrisy. Here you're railing against the industry... can you honestly tell me that you've NEVER looked at one single picture or one single movie from one of these sites you're going off about? If you're intentions here are so 'lily white,' then why haven't you answered the basic question of WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO HELP THE TS COMMUNITY?

Please... your grasp of reality and lack of logic astounds me. You are the WORST kind of hypocrite... the kind that doesn't even know he is one.

[hankhavelock]

Originally Posted by GroobyKrissy

I dislike when threads drag on and on for pages but this deserves a response.

This is, quite simply one of the most ignorant and illogical statements I have EVER heard and shows that you have no basic grasp of reality. I think it's clear to ANYONE who reads a statement like that why it's just wrong that I'm not even going to dignify it with a response. Hank, you need help if that is the way you look at life.

So... STILL waiting to hear from you about what YOU do to help the TS community? Funny you should be here on a largely PORN centered board with these strong anti-porn statements. And, please... let's talk hypocrisy. Here you're railing against the industry... can you honestly tell me that you've NEVER looked at one single picture or one single movie from one of these sites you're going off about? If you're intentions here are so 'lily white,' then why haven't you answered the basic question of WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO HELP THE TS COMMUNITY?

Please... your grasp of reality and lack of logic astounds me. You are the WORST kind of hypocrite... the kind that doesn't even know he is one.

Whether I've ever enjoyed porn or been with prostitutes is completely beside the point. And what good I've done to the trans*community is equally irrelevant.

YOU were the one who claimed that by PAYING for your trans*porn ppl would HELP the trans*community.

Read back at what I said and try to grasp the deeper meaning - calling me "the WORST hypocrite" is cute and, obviously, unintelligent, because you know Ï ain't. But you fight for your opinion...

I care, and you don't give a shit...

Hank

[GroobyKrissy]

Originally Posted by hankhavelock

Whether I've ever enjoyed porn or been with prostitutes is completely beside the point. And what good I've done to the trans*community is equally irrelevant.

YOU were the one who claimed that by PAYING for your trans*porn ppl would HELP the trans*community.

Read back at what I said and try to grasp the deeper meaning - calling me "the WORST hypocrite" is cute and, obviously, unintelligent, because you know Ï ain't. But you fight for your opinion...

I care, and you don't give a shit...

Hank

It's hard to get a 'deeper meaning' in something as shallow as a petri dish.

It's pretty obvious to me that you see yourself as some 'knight in shining' armor to the TS community. I think any reasonable observer would say you're a complete hypocrite with your admitted usage of prostitutes (which MANY would argue is one of, if not the WORST kind of degradation you can put a person through - [not my personal belief]) (you brought this up, I was going to leave it out) and porn.

It's also obvious that you're unable to have an intelligent and reasonable conversation and I will not be dragged into the name calling and general rudeness you've shown me. Therefore, consider this my last post in response to your posts.

If anyone else has anything to say on the matter, I'll gladly respond, but enough with this completely 'out of touch' conversation.

[Jenae LaTorque]

Krissy,
While I can sympathize somewhat with your plight, I have to ask: Did you not realize that piracy abounded on the net before you put up your site and bared your throat to the wolves?

While you may deplore the "free" postings of your material, is it not possible that some viewers of those may make their way to your site and join? I do know that free postings of video clips have impelled me to search out the original material for purchase.

While I can't condone piracy of copyrighted material, I can understand the feeling that since the pirated material user wouldn't purchase the material otherwise, then; the seller isn't really out anything. It is not the same as taking the bread from your fellow man's mouth, it is more like the multiplication of the loaves and fishes that a very famous fellow is reputed to have done. Do you suppose the fish sellers and bakers raised (and pardon the expression) "holy hell" about the potential loss of business there? Damn, there is another justification for wrongdoing to be found in the "Book"!
LOL I may have to trap some of my religious friends with that one

Anyway. to get back to the main question as to do I care. Honestly, I would have to say, "No, not much!" If I knew you personally, I might; but I really feel you should expect little sympathy from strangers. From what you have said, you seem to be an intelligent person and should know better. Do I wish you good fortune in overcoming your problems - YES.

Take care honey Jenae

[GroobyKrissy]

Originally Posted by Jenae LaTorque

Krissy,
While I can sympathize somewhat with your plight, I have to ask: Did you not realize that piracy abounded on the net before you put up your site and bared your throat to the wolves?

While you may deplore the "free" postings of your material, is it not possible that some viewers of those may make their way to your site and join? I do know that free postings of video clips have impelled me to search out the original material for purchase.

While I can't condone piracy of copyrighted material, I can understand the feeling that since the pirated material user wouldn't purchase the material otherwise, then; the seller isn't really out anything. It is not the same as taking the bread from your fellow man's mouth, it is more like the multiplication of the loaves and fishes that a very famous fellow is reputed to have done. Do you suppose the fish sellers and bakers raised (and pardon the expression) "holy hell" about the potential loss of business there? Damn, there is another justification for wrongdoing to be found in the "Book"!
LOL I may have to trap some of my religious friends with that one

Anyway. to get back to the main question as to do I care. Honestly, I would have to say, "No, not much!" If I knew you personally, I might; but I really feel you should expect little sympathy from strangers. From what you have said, you seem to be an intelligent person and should know better. Do I wish you good fortune in overcoming your problems - YES.

Take care honey Jenae

Jenae,

Yes, of course I know that piracy has existed ever since the very first floppy disk rolled of the manufacturing floor. I don't think anywhere will you find me whining and sniveling and saying, 'Poor me.' As any brick and mortar business will tell you, typically, shrinkage is budgeted into the costs of doing business. This is the same with sites that do digital media. I understand business. I've worked as the OM for a fairly well known technology firm for several years before 'striking out on my own.'

There is a HUGE difference between the posting of VIDEO CLIPS (i.e. - usually kept to under 2 minutes) and A WHOLE VIDEO (piracy). Typically, most large websites make video clips available to people who would like to promote their content in an attempt to make money (i.e. - affiliates). That is basically, free advertising for the company and that's a good thing. Normally speaking, these clips are edited to cut out right before the juicy bits... TRAILERS, as it were. And, yes, it is the hope that those people who see these clips will find the origin and join the site (usually, links are provided straight to the site so no 'searching' is necessary).

Now... if a WHOLE VIDEO is posted, and especially on a repeated basis like many of these 'free' sites, OBVIOUSLY, the person is not going to bother joining the site.

So, the statement you made... about the 'seller isn't really out anything.' That is just plain not true. Like I stated earlier, the problem with digital theft is that is it continuous and ongoing. That is why the record moguls try to put high price tags on the cases they decide to prosecute. You cannot prove, and to be fair, disprove how many people would or would not have bought the cd or dvd after downloading a pirated copy... although, reason would stand to suggest that not many would.

Your allegory of the loaves and fishes is way out of context and really not appropriate at all. In that story (sorry for those who take offense to calling it a 'story' but for lack of a better word), the original loaves and fish were GIVEN FREELY (or purchased... it's been a long time since Sunday school) by the original owner(s). The certain speaker you refer to didn't steal it and then multiply it. Any content I reproduce in a PUBLIC area of my site, I realize is going to end up being distributed somewhere else at some point or another... I'm ok with that... it's why it's there. BUT... content INSIDE a PRIVATE area that people are PAYING to access is clearly intended for the enjoyment of that audience alone. It's stated on every single website out there in their TERMS and CONDITIONS section.

I don't expect sympathy from strangers and never once have I asked for it. Instead, I try to reason with people on a logical basis with facts and personal stories. What I am saying is that this 'devil may care' attitude about people stealing content and reposting it is bad for the industry. Your nonchalant attitude is the very thing which I'm appealing to change not because I want your sympathy but because I want and should get your dollars if you want my content.

If I created a website and called it 'Shemale Wallpapers' took all the content you had created and posted here in your 5 star thread, hid behind some anonymous server somewhere, and claimed credit for it... you'd be ok with that? I think not. It's easy to not care (as I did when I started using Napster) when it doesn't affect you... when it does, you'll come around to seeing business from the owner's perspectives.