Do You Guys Really Care???

[hankhavelock]

Originally Posted by GroobyKrissy

So, I've been reading the thread about which is the best paysite to join and quite honestly, I'm a bit taken aback at all the subscribers to the 'FREE is BEST' people out there. So, although this may make me the most unpopular person on the board, I have to ask... Do you guys give a shit?

Seriously... over and over... 'I love this girl' 'I love that girl'...

Do you realize what it does to a site when someone posts free content, and let me clarify here, I'm talking whole or majority of picture sets and videos here, not just the occasional admirer reposting a few pictures here and there?

Patronizing places which encourage 'FREE' content is not cool. I speak as a site owner myself. It's been said that there is nothing free in this world and it's true. In cases like this, it is often the site owner who is incurring the loss in revenue and the repercussions can be mild to downright devastating.

I always find it odd that people who would never walk into a grocery store and just take what they want and walk out have absolutely no problem at all downloading obviously pirated content from a website.

People who post such stuff often justify it by, 'oh, I'm actually helping the site by giving them free publicity.' Stupid logic. Obviously, no one is going to join a site if they can get the content for free.

I can tell you from personal experience... when you take content from a solo site, or patronize places which encourage this behavior, it is extremely damaging to the site owners. Many independent site owners depend on their sites as their sole source of income... so basically, you're taking directly from their wallet (or purses).

Anyway... without getting longwinded about this... if you really like a particular model or site, the BEST way to show it is to stop stuffing fast food or $4.00 coffee down your mouth for a couple days and pony up the $25.00 to join the site for a month. You're actually HELPING keep the site going then instead of perpetuating a problem.

Sites are expensive to run and much of those expenses you surfers just don't think about... there's hosting fees, credit card fees, VI-- fees (minimum $800 / year here in the US), photography expenses, video expenses, location expenses, and lots more. With solo sites, these expenses eat up a majority of the profit. With larger sites, a lot of memberships go towards paying the models to do shoots (typically between $500 - $1000 OR 17 - 35 memberships).

I'm not whining here... believe me, I have no problem at all when someone posts one or two pictures from my site somewhere... in fact, it's kind of flattering. But, when I find whole galleries or video posted somewhere it really jades me. You may think it doesn't hurt the sites but it does... even the big sites feel it... in fact, more and more of them are taking legal action... if you're a re-poster of stolen content... read this:

http://www.wp-board.com/

Anyway... so back to my original question... Do you guys REALLY care about the models you say you love so much?

If your answer is yes, then find a good site, join it for a month, and help support the industry. If your answer is no, then by all means, keep stealing and hurting the sites that provide you the material that fuels your pleasure (that's sarcasm btw... I'd prefer you just stop). Most quality sites have PLENTY of free content on their official blogs, forums, or etc. Find it and enjoy it there instead of getting it from a stolen content board or torrent site.

Your point is valid... but do I care about porn-sites? Yes, to the extend that they pay the girls their due (which most of them do not). Do I otherwise care about you? No. And the real question is, do YOU care about the girls you underpay? Nah... not really, right? You sanctimonious ass...

If you guys truly wished to be part of an effort to help trans*girls I would respect you, but in the end you don't. You pay the girls a small one-time fee and keep posting their images with absolutely no concern for even totally normal copyright-laws. Most of you are a bunch of mafia bad boys/girls (of what ever gender) and you are the worst thiefs of all, because you never pay the ladies their amount due.

So PLEASE, stop the self-righteous crap and take a look at the man in the mirror, lady!

Your tears are crocodile's tears coming from a guy who hates the fact that you get copied. But what is YOUR contribution, baby? Paying a little tranny 50 USD for a photo shoot and then "forgetting to tell her, when her royalties are due!"

You porn-site-mafias are a bunch of vampires that have no place here. You do NOONE any good, you hypocritical SOB!

So get the FUCK outta here, you anti-social, anti-trans bastard... (did I forget to say) please... :-)

Now I'm getting a bit upset again... oh well...

But NO peace with the porn-mafia...

H

[GroobyKrissy]

Originally Posted by hankhavelock

Your point is valid... but do I care about porn-sites? Yes, to the extend that they pay the girls their due (which most of them do not). Do I otherwise care about you? No. And the real question is, do YOU care about the girls you underpay? Nah... not really, right? You sanctimonious ass...

If you guys truly wished to be part of an effort to help trans*girls I would respect you, but in the end you don't. You pay the girls a small one-time fee and keep posting their images with absolutely no concern for even totally normal copyright-laws. Most of you are a bunch of mafia bad boys/girls (of what ever gender) and you are the worst thiefs of all, because you never pay the ladies their amount due.

So PLEASE, stop the self-righteous crap and take a look at the man in the mirror, lady!

Your tears are crocodile's tears coming from a guy who hates the fact that you get copied. But what is YOUR contribution, baby? Paying a little tranny 50 USD for a photo shoot and then "forgetting to tell her, when her royalties are due!"

You porn-site-mafias are a bunch of vampires that have no place here. You do NOONE any good, you hypocritical SOB!

So get the FUCK outta here, you anti-social, anti-trans bastard... (did I forget to say) please... :-)

Now I'm getting a bit upset again... oh well...

But NO peace with the porn-mafia...

H

You know... you should really do some homework before you make accusations. I do not pay anyone... I run a SOLO site.

Second... you obviously, don't know what in the world you're talking about or how the porn community works. Content producers OWN the rights to reproduce the work as much as they'd like. Models sign over this right when they agree to do a shoot. And... most are VERY happy with the wages they're paid here in the US (I can't speak for overseas). Where else can you make 500-700 dollars (not 50) for what amounts to two or three hours work?

Anyway... I'm not going to stoop to your level of rudeness except to say, educate yourself a little more before you open your big mouth and look like a complete fool.

And... by the way... I contribute PLENTY. I donate 5% of all (gross) proceeds from my site to local charitable organizations such as SOLV, The Access Fund, and Until There's A Cure. What do you do?

[hankhavelock]

Originally Posted by GroobyKrissy

You know... you should really do some homework before you make accusations. I do not pay anyone... I run a SOLO site.

Second... you obviously, don't know what in the world you're talking about or how the porn community works. Content producers OWN the rights to reproduce the work as much as they'd like. Models sign over this right when they agree to do a shoot. And... most are VERY happy with the wages they're paid here in the US (I can't speak for overseas). Where else can you make 500-700 dollars (not 50) for what amounts to two or three hours work?

Anyway... I'm not going to stoop to your level of rudeness except to say, educate yourself a little more before you open your big mouth and look like a complete fool.

And... by the way... I contribute PLENTY. I donate 5% of all (gross) proceeds from my site to local charitable organizations such as SOLV, The Access Fund, and Until There's A Cure. What do you do?

My level of rudeness? Honey, you ain't seen nothing yet...

I'm impressed, baby! I guess your answer makes my point... and I'm sure you're totally proud of yourself and (obviously and conveniently) completely numb to any suggestions. Let's not bring levels of education into this, for your sake, honey... ;-)

You're not my kind of girl, darling... but spare yourself the humiliation of accusing me (of all) to be needing to do my homework, sweetheart... need I say more?

But best of Danish luck on your business venture... I'm sure you're a nice guy but you just completely forgot the whole point, dear. And the whole point is that being a trans*woman is NOT being helped any further by ppl like you who use them for pornographic futures. In spite of your fabulous payment program...

View this in a broader sense.

And no matter how much you claim to pay them, you don't pay them enough. You just wash your hands, baby.

Shame on you!

However, though I do not approve of underpayment of models, I may have done you unjustice. If that's the case, then I appologize.

My point remains the welfare of transsexual women - and the Lord knows that they need it!

H

[GroobyKrissy]

Originally Posted by hankhavelock

My level of rudeness? Honey, you ain't seen nothing yet...

I'm impressed, baby! I guess your answer makes my point... and I'm sure you're totally proud of yourself and (obviously and conveniently) completely numb to any suggestions. Let's not bring levels of education into this, for your sake, honey... ;-)

You're not my kind of girl, darling... but spare yourself the humiliation of accusing me (of all) to be needing to do my homework, sweetheart... need I say more?

But best of Danish luck on your business venture... I'm sure you're a nice guy but you just completely forgot the whole point, dear. And the whole point is that being a trans*woman is NOT being helped any further by ppl like you who use them for pornographic futures. In spite of your fabulous payment program...

View this in a broader sense.

And no matter how much you claim to pay them, you don't pay them enough. You just wash your hands, baby.

Shame on you!

However, though I do not approve of underpayment of models, I may have done you unjustice. If that's the case, then I appologize.

My point remains the welfare of transsexual women - and the Lord knows that they need it!

H

Well... I guess you don't understand the word 'SOLO' so I'll spell it out for you. There are no other models on my site other than myself that require payment. That is what I meant when I said I don't pay anyone and I don't USE anyone for pornographic purposes, except me, and that's my choice.

And, hey, I'm not afraid to bring levels of education into this. I'm quite well educated thank you very much. I studied law at Willamette, majored in Forensic Psychology, and graduated with honors. How about you?

I don't 'claim.' Unlike you, I do know what I'm talking about... I work in the industry. Do you? Because I'm starting to get the impression that you're all worked up because you probably run one of those 'FREE' sites out there that I'm talking about. So, I'll let you answer your own accusation...

How are you helping the 'trans*women' out there you claim to care about so much? Quite honestly, I doubt you are. If you were actually so concerned, you'd at least know that 'trans*women' is NOT the proper term to be used in describing a 'Transgendered' individual. If you're main concern is helping 'transsexual women' then I guess you have a foundation or non-profit organization for helping genetically born females who feel as if they are males? Because, if that's your point... you're on the wrong Board. But, again, I think it's clear that you don't even understand the terms you're using.

Anyway, although I expected some backlash from this thread, I didn't mean for this to turn into this back and forth drama. So, I apologize to the rest of you all for having to read this. Kind of entertaining though to watch someone fly off the handle who doesn't know what he's talking about though.

AND PS... let's just ask...

Any girls out there mind making $500-$700 for a 2-3 hour photo / video shoot? Would you think that you were being taking advantage of and not being paid fairly? Yeah... I didn't think so...

[Jenae LaTorque]

Like most disagreements, each side here has some validity.

This is not the only place where copyright concerns are a point of contention. You all are aware that there are many sites where pirated movies, music, pictures, etc. are available within hours after release; sometimes even before. There is no doubt in my mind that such activity is dishonest, even if the theft is simply that of a stream of electronic data.

As for Hank's contention; yes, I am sure that many Tgirls are exploited, but........ that is the way of business.......and life! Since the dawn of time, life has been a struggle for ascendancy and there has always been the screwers and screwees. That is written in the genetic code of life. Legal laws enacted by mankind often seem to go against the laws of Nature. The laws of man are usually designed to advance the welfare of the many, while Nature's laws are to promote the survival of the fittest.

So, where is the Tgirl-Sexworker Union? If they could organize and follow the path blazed by other unions, they might have a chance. Til then, they can only speak to our conscience as Krissy does here. Or....

What if a very nasty virus was embedded in each picture or other form of media that would remain dormant as long as the proper code was used in conjunction with the use of the data. Pirate surprise!!!

[Jenae LaTorque]

I took a look at Krissy's blog and would encourage others to do so. To be honest, forget the pictures. Read the thoughts, that is where the gold is. I know that I put her in my list of favorites.

[seanchai]

Hankhavealock, your a complete idiot and a complete bigot.

You have no idea what we pay the models which is a hell of a lot more thamn $50 and have worked with many models, to increase their business, their own websites and if they've had a desire to work in this business, given them direction to other quality producers.
There is no such thing as "royalty" payments in any online adult sites, videos or magazines, so wherever you've gotten that idea from, your completely misinformed ... and if that was the system, then we certainly would not have the budgets to work with as many models as we do now.

Of course, this is a business and as a business it needs to be profitable but we've always tried to do this with keeping as many of the models in profit also, which is why some models have done extremely well working with us.

Use whatever excuse you might want to show stolen content ... but showing that, is putting less money into the models pockets ... period.

You coarse attempt at humor in constantly referring to Krissy as "he" where she has presented herself on a "trans" forum as a female, further proves what a prick you must be and what issues you must have with your own identity.

seanchai

[GroobyKrissy]

Originally Posted by Jenae LaTorque

So, where is the Tgirl-Sexworker Union? If they could organize and follow the path blazed by other unions, they might have a chance. Til then, they can only speak to our conscience as Krissy does here. Or....

Hiya Jenae

I actually like this idea but I don't think many Tgirls would support such an organization. One of the major obstacles to this is how catty we Tgirls can be even among ourselves. Let's face the facts, we have a very dysfunctional community and although there are small pockets of 'sisterhood' to be found, on the whole, it's a 'cat eat cat' world out there.

We can't even agree on terms we use to describe ourselves... which, BTW, I've started a thread on in the General Discussion area.

[TS_aficionado]

@GroobyKrissy:

It's hard to agree with you seeing this vicious RIAA (and MPAA) campaign. This maniacal rampage made a lot of people (myself included) rethink the idea of paying for anything at all online, not just music and movies.

[charlietwobeans]

Originally Posted by seanchai

Actually for over 12 years we've been offering alternative ways to pay, including sending cash, money orders or cashiers checks directly to us ... I think we are one of the few porn companies to do this.
Take a look at http://www.grooby.com/paybymail.html for discounts!

Just FYI - I also noticed a few non-porn sites taking Amazon credit (which you can get at more than a few places in lieu of cash). I assume this credit can be applied to their lease of Amazon services (E3, etc.), which I think is a pretty interesting way of doing things - creates a whole new thread of an economy, much like Second Life.

As for the original post, sans all the vitriol and ugly back-and-forth, I wanted to apologize to Krissy and to all the other independent providers because I did post advocating only free sites. I was only thinking about the major pay sites when I posted that, and was definitely not thinking about the thousands of independent, creative, intriguing people that spend their days and nights crafting sites like Krissy's and certainly deserve compensation for it.

I, like many, don't have the luxury of privacy so that credit cards can read whatever they want, so the option is not there for me.

On a final note, I don't really get the anger directed toward Krissy and others on their position, so I will leave it alone. Enough has been said already.

[seanchai]

Originally Posted by Jenae LaTorque

So, where is the Tgirl-Sexworker Union? If they could organize and follow the path blazed by other unions, they might have a chance. Til then, they can only speak to our conscience as Krissy does here. Or....

I've encouraged this a few times ... but the sad fact remains, it would take one emboldened tgirl to put this together and to run it. Most of the models just aren't very good at working together even for something that would benefit them.