Liberal free for all coming to an end

[randolph]

I suggest reading this Newsweek article for a fuller, less partisan, explanation: http://www.newsweek.com/2010/07/14/t...ew-acorn0.html

Don't get me wrong: voter intimidation is wrong. I believe the lunatic fringe New Black Panther Party (denounced by the establishe BPP, by the way), sought to intimidate voters as part of its periodic publicity stunts. But your charge is about the Obama DOJ subverting the law and the constitution.

As a conservative member of the Commission on Civil Rights says at the end of the article to which I've linked, there is a plenty of stuff to criticize Obama about (I would add: from the left or the right). She aptly notes that to pin this incident on him only lessens the validity of conservative criticism.
Tracy, I feel that your points would be stronger if you stuck to substantive arguments about foreign policy, economic policy, and so on, and got away from the distractions that are pushed from both sides to avoid us, as Americans, having those important discussions.

Very well put SMC.
Tracy is very well informed from a very conservative standpoint. Fortunately, the truth lies somewhere in the middle of all these ultra liberal and ultra conservative views.

[tslust]

Tommorrow's the big day boys and gurls.

[randolph]

I hope tomorrow is not the start of Armageddon.
There is lots of good people out there, they just need to VOTE!

[tslust]

Originally Posted by randolph

I hope tomorrow is not the start of Armageddon.
There is lots of good people out there, they just need to VOTE!

That first cartoon funny.

In all seriousness, and not to open a can of worms, the Federal government needs to be downsized.

[randolph]

Originally Posted by tslust

That first cartoon funny.

In all seriousness, and not to open a can of worms, the Federal government needs to be downsized.

How true, how about starting with the military industrial complex. Imagine what the country could do if we weren't spending trillions of dollars on wars.

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by randolph

How true, how about starting with the military industrial complex. Imagine what the country could do if we weren't spending trillions of dollars on wars.

There's probably a lot that can be cut in the military as well as several other areas. Hell, there are whole departments of the government that could be cut. But obviously you wouldn't want to cut too much of the military.

Originally Posted by Slavetoebony

Stay at home. Don't bother to vote. Regardless of what party they belong to, they are all a bunch of crooks.

Excellent advice, and I've told it to all my democrat friends.

[TracyCoxx]

Reid stays as senate majority leader... ughhh.
Pelosi is ousted... Yes!!! Good riddance b[leep].

Well one thing is for sure... The liberal free for all has come to an end!

[tslust]

Originally Posted by randolph

How true, how about starting with the military industrial complex. Imagine what the country could do if we weren't spending trillions of dollars on wars.

The Federal Government is far too intrusive about things that they have no buisness being involved with. For example education, enviromental protection, marriage, NASA, welfare, and now health care to name a few. The Tenth Amendment gives these matters to the individual States.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

(BTW I am a believer in State's Rights.)

[The Conquistador]

Originally Posted by tslust

The Federal Government is far too intrusive about things that they have no buisness being involved with. For example education, enviromental protection, marriage, NASA, welfare, and now health care to name a few. The Tenth Amendment gives these matters to the individual States. (BTW I am a believer in State's Rights.)

Huzzah! The Feds should only be involved in national defense and the wellbeing of the country as it was originally intended. And I quote Article 1, Section 8 of the United States Constitution:

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

There are only 17 things that the fed has power over, which is mainly dealing with national defense and some regulation of our currency.

[Slavetoebony]

If voting changed anything the establishment would make it illegal.

Stay at home. Don't bother to vote. Regardless of what party they belong to, they are all a bunch of crooks.

[ts_addict]

Could an American answer a question for me please... Why is it that people over there don't like the idea of having a national health service?

Our (UK) NHS service is something we couldn't live without and if the government said we had to pay for everything there would be riots.

[ila]

Originally Posted by ts_addict

Could an American answer a question for me please... Why is it that people over there don't like the idea of having a national health service?

Our (UK) NHS service is something we couldn't live without and if the government said we had to pay for everything there would be riots.

You do pay for everything. It's just that you pay for it indirectly through your taxes.

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by ts_addict

Could an American answer a question for me please... Why is it that people over there don't like the idea of having a national health service?

Our (UK) NHS service is something we couldn't live without and if the government said we had to pay for everything there would be riots.

Because for one thing we already have a system where people get health insurance through their employers, and 85% of Americans are happy with the way this works.

For another thing, to change the system to a national health service would require everyone's health premiums to go up like $2000/year and the result would be degraded medical service.

And for another thing, our country is deep in debt and cannot afford the national health care system that was enacted.

[randolph]

SMC made the point, the Repubs don't want to reveal the vast amount of corporate secret funding for their campaigns. When the voters realize that most of the funding comes from BP, the chamber of commerce and the likes of the Kock brothers they may decide to vote for someone else.

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by randolph

SMC made the point, the Repubs don't want to reveal the vast amount of corporate secret funding for their campaigns. When the voters realize that most of the funding comes from BP, the chamber of commerce and the likes of the Kock brothers they may decide to vote for someone else.

Ok, so if voters aren't going to vote for republicans when they see this, and they aren't going to vote for democrats when they see how much funding comes from George Soros and Media Matters and MoveOn.org and hollywood, etc, then who will they vote for? Libertarian?

[ts_addict]

Originally Posted by ila

You do pay for everything. It's just that you pay for it indirectly through your taxes.

I know, but say if you needed life saving drugs which are very expensive you wouldn't be able to get them would you? The NHS also gives us piece of mind as you know that no matter what (pretty much), you will get treated. Even people that are only here on holiday get treated for free iirc. Everyone is treated the same and has the access to drugs they may need.

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Because for one thing we already have a system where people get health insurance through their employers, and 85% of Americans are happy with the way this works.

For another thing, to change the system to a national health service would require everyone's health premiums to go up like $2000/year and the result would be degraded medical service.

And for another thing, our country is deep in debt and cannot afford the national health care system that was enacted.

I understand that, but if there was a shake-up of the rules it would be a lot fairer for everyone and there wouldn't be huge corporations trying to profit off someone's illness. Which I think is disgusting.

I often wonder how the american public let these corporations do what they do. They must spend so much money on propaganda.


---

Thanks for the replies

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by ts_addict

I understand that, but if there was a shake-up of the rules it would be a lot fairer for everyone and there wouldn't be huge corporations trying to profit off someone's illness. Which I think is disgusting.

A huge corporation is not a synonym for evil. Corporations and small businesses are what drives our economy. Yes insurance companies make a profit, but so do doctors. They make a profit because someone has to manage the system that makes it possible for people to get medical treatment, and that someone provides a service. Is it disgusting that car mechanics make a profit off of other people's misfortunes? People are paid for the services they provide. If it was managed by the government then there would be no competition to keep prices low and to keep wasted spending to a manageable level. And again... we are maxed out in debt and cannot afford it. (Why does no one see that last sentence? Why is it completely irrelevant that there is a mountain of debt and all people can think of is what else to add to it?)

One way or another, whether it's through insurance premiums or taxes, people pay for medical treatment. Either insurance companies (aka evil corporations) receive a profit for getting you the medical treatment you need or a large portion of what you're paying through taxes is wasted on a one-size fits all government solution.

[tslust]

Originally Posted by ts_addict

Could an American answer a question for me please... Why is it that people over there don't like the idea of having a national health service?

For me, it's a matter of having the freedom to decide for myself. In other words, I don't want some self-appointed genius in D.C. telling me that I have to get insurance even if I don't need it. I get my insurance through my job, thank you very much.

[smc]

Originally Posted by tslust

I get my insurance through my job, thank you very much.

Well, aren't you the lucky one. Not everyone has such good fortune. But of course, this is America -- the one highly developed nation in the world where "social solidarity" is not just nearly non-existent, but where its opposite is taught to you from your first days in school. So, while we are all foolishly chasing the false "American dream" we've been taught about, and believing that the only righteous thing is to "pull yourself up by your own bootstraps," the rest of the developed world is surpassing the United States in every single category of social good, from literacy rates to birth rates to public transportation to educational achievement in math and science to ... the list is too endless for this site.

That crap we Americans were taught in school about individualism and making your own way and so on -- that serves a political and, more important, an economic purpose for those with the financial means -- in this country these days, typically acquired through economic activity that serves absolutely no productive purpose -- so that they never have to worry about paying for healthcare or relying on public transit or going to a decent public school or ... well, again, the list is too endless for this site.

When I was in Paris once, I came upon a group of about 30 people protesting outside a neighborhood daycare center early one morning. The government was discussing cutting back the funding for the creche. I spoke with nearly everyone there, and I could find only 5 people who had kids in the daycare center. All the rest were there because they realized that everyone in France benefited from public-funded daycare, and that their neighbors -- and hence their neighborhood -- was enriched by the fact that the daycare center made it possible for some people to work where they might not otherwise be able to keep a job. When the saw the possibility of that benefit disappearing for a few, they realized that it would hurt them all.

[randolph]

Very well said SMC, humanity is in short supply in the good old USA. The conservatives are under the delusion that we can have a great country consisting of a few rich people and the rest working for them. Its not unlike the South before the Civil War. One of these days we will wake up, I hope it will not be too late.

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by smc

Well, aren't you the lucky one. Not everyone has such good fortune. But of course, this is America -- the one highly developed nation in the world where "social solidarity" is not just nearly non-existent, but where its opposite is taught to you from your first days in school.

Exactly. Theoretically this country is supposed to grant individual liberties. It's an experiment in government so at least there's one place on Earth you can go if individual liberty is what you seek. It's not for everyone so don't feel bad if it's not for you. If people are in a country that goes against their nature they hopefully can immigrate to another country. That's why immigrants come here. There are many other countries where you can work to support your fellow citizens or mooch off the work of others. btw... lower taxes on businesses and they will hire more people. Then more people get health insurance.

Originally Posted by smc

So, while we are all foolishly chasing the false "American dream" we've been taught about, and believing that the only righteous thing is to "pull yourself up by your own bootstraps," the rest of the developed world is surpassing the United States in every single category of social good, from literacy rates to birth rates to public transportation to educational achievement in math and science to ... the list is too endless for this site.

Thank America's religious fundamentalists for some of that. As for the high birth rates, no thank you. Who needs over population?

Originally Posted by smc

That crap we Americans were taught in school about individualism and making your own way and so on -- that serves

... to make our people self sufficient and masters of their own destinies.

Originally Posted by smc

When I was in Paris once, I came upon a group of about 30 people protesting outside a neighborhood daycare center early one morning. The government was discussing cutting back the funding for the creche. I spoke with nearly everyone there, and I could find only 5 people who had kids in the daycare center. All the rest were there because they realized that everyone in France benefited from public-funded daycare, and that their neighbors -- and hence their neighborhood -- was enriched by the fact that the daycare center made it possible for some people to work where they might not otherwise be able to keep a job. When the saw the possibility of that benefit disappearing for a few, they realized that it would hurt them all.

Good example. Once you make people feel they're entitled to something you can't get rid of it. It becomes yet another expense that the government pays and burdens the population with through taxes, whether they have kids or not. The end result? A bloated out of control welfare state.

[tslust]

Originally Posted by smc

Well, aren't you the lucky one. Not everyone has such good fortune. But of course, this is America -- the one highly developed nation in the world where "social solidarity" is not just nearly non-existent, but where its opposite is taught to you from your first days in school. So, while we are all foolishly chasing the false "American dream" we've been taught about, and believing that the only righteous thing is to "pull yourself up by your own bootstraps,"

Firstly, yes I am fortunate. However, I remember when things were a lot rougher. Growing up, we had barely enough, if any at all, money for groceries; so more times than I care to mention, I went to bed hungry. For about three years all our cooking was either on the grill or more often the microwave because we couldn't afford to have the gas turned back on. And for heat in the winter, it was one little space heater and blankets. In all that time, not one of your glorius social programs came to our relief (and my parents tried to get assistance from them several times). No we had to "pull ourselves up by our bootstraps".

Originally Posted by smc

...because they realized that everyone in France benefited from public-funded daycare...

Secondly, public(government) funded daycare --- you have got to be kidding me. [INCERT SARCASM]I think we should have a 100% tax on our paychecks. That way the government can provide everything from groceries, to gas for our cars, to paying our rent/mortgages, to premium satalite T.V. service, to utilities, to cloths and anything else we may wish.

Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have. The course of history shows us that as a government grows, liberty decreases.

-Thomas Jefferson

[Rainrider]

Well I found a discussion I like. After reading so many of the post, I seem to forget what was said, so I will just add my little bit. Some one said the right does not have to feared, your right. If we can bring down the size of Government, they will by proxy have less to do with state law, and so leaving most things in the hands of the state. As the constitution has made clear it should be. The people have the right to govern them-selves. Some thing long forgotten by DC. Most folks don't know it any more, but in your county the Sheriff has the upper hand in all matters of law. Or should have by the constitution. Just as the left has set asaid the fact the the will of the people is what should make laws not them and what they alone want.
I also seen a list of nations that have Socialized Health-care. Of them almost every one is looking at it being a burden they can not keep up. I work in Health care, and I can tell you that what I see them doing to be ready for Obummer care is not a good thing. Most of the Docs, are looking to relocate in a nation that does not have government controlled health care. It has nothing to with their pay, they are looking to find a place they can do some good. The elderly in this nation will be forced out long term care and sent home, this is not a good thing. You see the care they get in long turm care is meant to give them a little more time on this earth. I work in long term care, and most of the family members I talk with simply can not give the care that is needed. Obummercare does have some good points don't get me wrong. Nothing in this world is with out them. Yet if you look at the cuts that will be made in medicare and medacade just to pay for all the people that will be added to them, it simply adds up to less coverage, and lower quality of care. If any thinks this is wrong, ask any one that lives in Canada why they would rather come to the USA for care.
Now lets talk about taxes. The only way to ever gt the rich to pay their share is go to a flat tax. this will do many thing for this nation. First off every one will be paying in the same. If you make 100 that year you would pay in 15. (assuming a 15% flat tax) if you make a mil you pay in 150,000, I think the math is right any how. Next, we would not have to pay out what ever it is to keep IRS working. Big savings there I bet. Cap and Tax will only drive this nation further into debt. How? With the passing of that bill you will see your house hold bills double if not more. If their is less disposable cash, then we don't spend as much. if we don't spend, we also do not produce. You see if it cost more to make, then we have one of 2 things happen. Bissness closes, we import more to make up for that. Or they move over seas. Ether way jobs are lost. With that comes less income, and more unemployment going out.
Sorry for all the misspelled words, I am dyslexic and my spell check does not work on this sight for some reason. It was earlier.
Ok got it working, Hope I fixed all the misspelled words, if not forgive me.

[smc]

Originally Posted by Rainrider

Well I found a discussion I like. After reading so many of the post, I seem to forget what was said, so I will just add my little bit. Some one said the right does not have to feared, your right. If we can bring down the size of Government, they will by proxy have less to do with state law, and so leaving most things in the hands of the state. As the constitution has made clear it should be. The people have the right to govern them-selves. Some thing long forgotten by DC. Most folks don't know it any more, but in your county the Sheriff has the upper hand in all matters of law. Or should have by the constitution. Just as the left has set asaid the fact the the will of the people is what should make laws not them and what they alone want.
I also seen a list of nations that have Socialized Health-care. Of them almost every one is looking at it being a burden they can not keep up. I work in Health care, and I can tell you that what I see them doing to be ready for Obummer care is not a good thing. Most of the Docs, are looking to relocate in a nation that does not have government controlled health care. It has nothing to with their pay, they are looking to find a place they can do some good. The elderly in this nation will be forced out long term care and sent home, this is not a good thing. You see the care they get in long turm care is meant to give them a little more time on this earth. I work in long term care, and most of the family members I talk with simply can not give the care that is needed. Obummercare does have some good points don't get me wrong. Nothing in this world is with out them. Yet if you look at the cuts that will be made in medicare and medacade just to pay for all the people that will be added to them, it simply adds up to less coverage, and lower quality of care. If any thinks this is wrong, ask any one that lives in Canada why they would rather come to the USA for care.
Now lets talk about taxes. The only way to ever gt the rich to pay their share is go to a flat tax. this will do many thing for this nation. First off every one will be paying in the same. If you make 100 that year you would pay in 15. (assuming a 15% flat tax) if you make a mil you pay in 150,000, I think the math is right any how. Next, we would not have to pay out what ever it is to keep IRS working. Big savings there I bet. Cap and Tax will only drive this nation further into debt. How? With the passing of that bill you will see your house hold bills double if not more. If their is less disposable cash, then we don't spend as much. if we don't spend, we also do not produce. You see if it cost more to make, then we have one of 2 things happen. Bissness closes, we import more to make up for that. Or they move over seas. Ether way jobs are lost. With that comes less income, and more unemployment going out.
Sorry for all the misspelled words, I am dyslexic and my spell check does not work on this sight for some reason. It was earlier.
Ok got it working, Hope I fixed all the misspelled words, if not forgive me.

People should be very careful generalizing their personal experiences. There are far too many serious issues at stake to be saying ridiculous, unproven, and likely false things such as "Most of the Docs, are looking to relocate in a nation that does not have government controlled health care. It has nothing to with their pay, they are looking to find a place they can do some good."

Facile solutions are pablum.

And how about some respect? "Obummer"? How can you be taken seriously when you belittle serious discourse.

[randolph]

There is talk of changing Federal law to allow states to go into bankruptcy and restructure their finances. In view of the dire situation here in California, this may be the way to go. After years of handing out plush salaries and generous retirements and borrowing money to cover operating costs, the state is frozen in a political stalemate. No one is willing to give up anything, the legislature is a farce. Jerry Brown sincerely wants to do something but his power is very limited by the initiative process that has locked expenses into the Constitution.
Bankruptcy would allow the state to break down all the special interests and start from scratch. Sounds good to me.

[Rainrider]

Originally Posted by smc

People should be very careful generalizing their personal experiences. There are far too many serious issues at stake to be saying ridiculous, unproven, and likely false things such as "Most of the Docs, are looking to relocate in a nation that does not have government controlled health care. It has nothing to with their pay, they are looking to find a place they can do some good."

Facile solutions are pablum.

And how about some respect? "Obummer"? How can you be taken seriously when you belittle serious discourse.

Well to start when I say most docs, I am talking of the ones I work with and talk to daily. Like I say I work in health care, you don't think a topic as big as health care would not be talked about. Give me a brake.
Also it is not the discourse I belittle, it the idiot that wishes to impose a law on the people that he has set up so he does not have to take part in it.

[smc]

Originally Posted by Rainrider

Well to start when I say most docs, I am talking of the ones I work with and talk to daily.

Of course you are. My point is that to extrapolate from that to make a political point is ridiculous. I have a primary care physician and three specialists I see regularly. Each and every one of them thinks something quite different from you have posted. The physicians I know in the healthcare program at my university think otherwise, too.

As Mark Twain once wrote, "All generalizations are false, including this one."

Originally Posted by Rainrider

Like I say I work in health care, you don't think a topic as big as health care would not be talked about. Give me a brake.

I never wrote anything that remotely corresponds to your quote above, so don't put words in my mouth ... even if by inference.

Originally Posted by Rainrider

Also it is not the discourse I belittle, it the idiot that wishes to impose a law on the people that he has set up so he does not have to take part in it.

Of course it's the discourse that you belittle, denigrate, etc. By calling names and making facile generalizations, you diminish the quality of the discourse. Instead of discussing healthcare reform and the legislation on its merits, or exclusively on its merits, you resort to "Obummercare" and now, calling someone an idiot. Do you mean Obama? How do you suppose you would fare in a test against Obama using some of the standardized tests to measure if one is an "idiot" -- e.g., the standard IQ test that rates one who scores below 20 as an "idiot"?

[ila]

Originally Posted by Rainrider

Well to start when I say most docs, I am talking of the ones I work with and talk to daily. Like I say I work in health care, you don't think a topic as big as health care would not be talked about. Give me a brake...

Being a doctor does not necessarly make one knowledgeable about the intricacies of socialised medicine. It has never been done in the US so I rather doubt there are many doctors that have enough knowledge of the subject to speak intimately of it. One should actually examine how other countries with socialised healthcare operate before making blanket statements such as what you have posted.

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by Rainrider

Well I found a discussion I like. After reading so many of the post, I seem to forget what was said, so I will just add my little bit. Some one said the right does not have to feared, your right. If we can bring down the size of Government, they will by proxy have less to do with state law, and so leaving most things in the hands of the state. As the constitution has made clear it should be. The people have the right to govern them-selves. Some thing long forgotten by DC. Most folks don't know it any more, but in your county the Sheriff has the upper hand in all matters of law. Or should have by the constitution. Just as the left has set asaid the fact the the will of the people is what should make laws not them and what they alone want.
I also seen a list of nations that have Socialized Health-care. Of them almost every one is looking at it being a burden they can not keep up. I work in Health care, and I can tell you that what I see them doing to be ready for Obummer care is not a good thing. Most of the Docs, are looking to relocate in a nation that does not have government controlled health care. It has nothing to with their pay, they are looking to find a place they can do some good. The elderly in this nation will be forced out long term care and sent home, this is not a good thing. You see the care they get in long turm care is meant to give them a little more time on this earth. I work in long term care, and most of the family members I talk with simply can not give the care that is needed. Obummercare does have some good points don't get me wrong. Nothing in this world is with out them. Yet if you look at the cuts that will be made in medicare and medacade just to pay for all the people that will be added to them, it simply adds up to less coverage, and lower quality of care. If any thinks this is wrong, ask any one that lives in Canada why they would rather come to the USA for care.
Now lets talk about taxes. The only way to ever gt the rich to pay their share is go to a flat tax. this will do many thing for this nation. First off every one will be paying in the same. If you make 100 that year you would pay in 15. (assuming a 15% flat tax) if you make a mil you pay in 150,000, I think the math is right any how. Next, we would not have to pay out what ever it is to keep IRS working. Big savings there I bet. Cap and Tax will only drive this nation further into debt. How? With the passing of that bill you will see your house hold bills double if not more. If their is less disposable cash, then we don't spend as much. if we don't spend, we also do not produce. You see if it cost more to make, then we have one of 2 things happen. Bissness closes, we import more to make up for that. Or they move over seas. Ether way jobs are lost. With that comes less income, and more unemployment going out.
Sorry for all the misspelled words, I am dyslexic and my spell check does not work on this sight for some reason. It was earlier.
Ok got it working, Hope I fixed all the misspelled words, if not forgive me.

Welcome to the site and to this thread. It's nice to have some input from someone who's actually in the healthcare business and to get their thoughts on what Obummercare will do. Is that what people in healthcare are calling it? lol Hopefully it will be repealed somehow, someway before it becomes yet another monstrous cancer on our nation that we can't get rid of like Social Security which will run out of money in 2037. How much further into debt will we go to fix that?

[smc]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Welcome to the site and to this thread. It's nice to have some input from someone who's actually in the healthcare business and to get their thoughts on what Obummercare will do. Is that what people in healthcare are calling it? lol Hopefully it will be repealed somehow, someway before it becomes yet another monstrous cancer on our nation that we can't get rid of like Social Security which will run out of money in 2037. How much further into debt will we go to fix that?

Once again, no one is entitled to her or his own facts.

Social Security, according to the Congressional Budget Office, currently has enough to pay 100% of claims until 2037, and then only 80% of claims for decades after that. You should pay attention to the whole story, not just the part that is told TO YOU so you will think a certain way.

A simple change in the rate people pay into Social Security -- i.e., make those who make a $1 million a year pay more than those who make $175,000 a year, and only a bit more -- will keep the system solvent at 100% for a much, much longer time. But that fix doesn't fit into the narrative of those who want to turn Social Security over to Wall Street speculators.

[Trogdor]

What freaks me out is how the Egyptian government pretty much pulled the plug on the internet, to keep people from twittering and blackberrying and stuff.....imagine if that happens here.

[Rainrider]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Welcome to the site and to this thread. It's nice to have some input from someone who's actually in the healthcare business and to get their thoughts on what Obummercare will do. Is that what people in healthcare are calling it? lol Hopefully it will be repealed somehow, someway before it becomes yet another monstrous cancer on our nation that we can't get rid of like Social Security which will run out of money in 2037. How much further into debt will we go to fix that?

Around here yes every one calls it Obumercare. If a person had the time to hit on the more than 2000 pages of the bill they would soon find out why. The bill was so bad that any one that had the opportunity to vote to remove them self from having to take part in did so.
As you said about S.S. going bankrupt, this bill was pasted with the idea that if they tax pharmaceutical company's, Insurances company's, and hospitals, high enough they can pay for it. Not stopping to think this will drive up the cost, so it would cost even more to pay for it. On top of driving up the cost of insurance, they want to fin us for not having it. My bad they call it a tax. Now the large corporations did the math. They are going to drop all insurance from the benefits package, and pay the fin. They can see a savings of over 2mil a year. So we now have folks with insurance now, that will end up on the obumer plain. So once more the cost goes up. If I may use the words of one doctor, " This not the Obumer plain, it is the ho shit did not see that coming obumer plain. "
Now what most don't stop to look at is the cuts in coverage for teh elderly and the poor. Long term care will become a thing of the past, and so on as I posted before. This will end up with total government control of health care. They can even run a used car lot. I mean come on, the bad move they made with cash for clunkers, that still has not been paid for.
As for the remark I seen about how I would feel if my IQ test was placed beside Obmer's. Well not that bad I don't think. I may be dyslexic, and that enpeads my ability to get my thoughts from my head to my fingers, or find the right word in a spell check, but it in no way lowers my IQ. In fact it has forced me rely on comincents over book cents. Find a way to masher that and I know Obumer would be the one looking silly.

[ila]

Originally Posted by Rainrider

...If any thinks this is wrong, ask any one that lives in Canada why they would rather come to the USA for care...

I am a Canadian, as indicated by my location in every post that I make. You never talked to me so right off your statement is false because I am more than satisfied with the quality of healthcare that I receive here. I can choose my own doctor, there is no cost to me for any visits to my doctor, I don't have to worry about getting rejected by an insurance company, I don't have to fill out forms for any treatment, everything that is available in the US is available here, and most importantly if I should ever be hospitalized I will not have to sell my house and all my possessions just to pay medical bills.

There are some people that do go to the US because they complain about wait times for some procedures, but I've never had to wait long for any medical procedure. One must also realize that Canada is the second largest country in the world and yet the population of the whole country is less than California. It's not easy to provide all services to people all over such a large country, but it does happen.

So I suggest you don't make such generalizations unless you know your facts and then be more specific.

[smc]

Originally Posted by ila

I am a Canadian, as indicated by my location in every post that I make. You never talked to me so right off your statement is false because I am more than satisfied with the quality of healthcare that I receive here. I can choose my own doctor, there is no cost to me for any visits to my doctor, I don't have to worry about getting rejected by an insurance company, I don't have to fill out forms for any treatment, everything that is available in the US is available here, and most importantly if I should ever be hospitalized I will not have to sell my house and all my possessions just to pay medical bills.

There are some people that do go to the US because they complain about wait times for some procedures, but I've never had to wait long for any medical procedure. One must also realize that Canada is the second largest country in the world and yet the population of the whole country is less than California. It's not easy to provide all services to people all over such a large country, but it does happen.

So I suggest you don't make such generalizations unless you know your facts and then be more specific.

Thank you for contributing to helping keep facts, and not regurgitated, impressionistic "talking points," a part of the discussions on this site.

[Vickieslut]

It cannot end soon enough for me. I am a rare breed a tranny who loves cock and is a die hard republican conservative.

[Suckslut]

I support the fair tax.

[Enoch Root]

I thought we might have a couple posts worth of real discussion. What think you all about the recent debacle with Rupert Murdoch and that of Dominique Strauss-Kahn, former chief of the IMF?

[randolph]

Originally Posted by Vickieslut

It cannot end soon enough for me. I am a rare breed a tranny who loves cock and is a die hard republican conservative.

Vicky, it should be quite obvious that you are in good company here.
Sucking tranny cock is very appealing to Liberals.

Being fucked in the ass by a tranny cock is very appealing to conservatives.

Conservatives always think they are being screwed by somebody of some thing (taxes).

Liberals on the other hand believe everybody should enjoy life, the rich and poor alike. Of course, this requires the rich to help out with some of their riches being transferred to the poor.

[KittyKaiti]

It's funny that anyone on this board would even admit to being a rightist conservative Republican. Go tell your Repub friends you like to play dress up and get fucked by other men.

[GRH]

Even if my economic and social philosophy aligned with conservative Republican values, I don't think I could ever affiliate with a party that would seek to take away transgendered/gay rights (or at the minimum, deny them).

[franalexes]

Originally Posted by KittyKaiti

It's funny that anyone on this board would even admit to being a rightist conservative Republican. Go tell your Repub friends you like to play dress up and get fucked by other men.

I gave strong hints.
The line of "Wannabees" is long.