Ask Me!

Jenae LaTorque · #1 07-31-2009

I am not going to debate your sophomoric intelligent design questions. You don't begin to come up with near as clever points as most of those now being posted by pro-IDCers on the net. If you want to put foward some point that indicates strongly that there is intelligent design responsible for the universe, then do so. Don't give me that computer on Jupiter BS which is just a variation on the watch just coming together from a collection of junk parts theme.

I find it very hard to take people serious who come up with points like this which is lifted from a pro Inteligent Design Creation site.

Evolution fails to provide answers

It is good to remember that, in spite of all the efforts of all the scientific laboratories around the world working over many decades, they have not been able to produce so much as a single human hair. How much more difficult is it to produce an entire body consisting of some 100 trillion cells!

Sound good huh? say "Hah!, they can't produce even a hair" But what is this guy inferring? Who even knows that any one lab, not to mention all the labs, all the time for many decades have been trying to produce a hair. Geez! I wonder how anything else got done while they were all trying to produce that hair.

There is a big problem with the idea of a creator. OK, now you say that life is so incredible and awesome, that is inconcievable to think it just happened, there must be an intelligence that created it. And I say well ok, now if there is a creator , then wow!, the creator must be something!

Hmmm.........................and who created him?

PS - About the back pain facts , this was from an in-depth analysis done for an industrial safety seminar I attended.

TracyCoxx · #2 07-31-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jenae LaTorque

Evolution fails to provide answers

It is good to remember that, in spite of all the efforts of all the scientific laboratories around the world working over many decades, they have not been able to produce so much as a single human hair. How much more difficult is it to produce an entire body consisting of some 100 trillion cells!

So the proof that humans were not designed is that we cannot redesign something like a hair? Doesn't that suggest that it is hard to design something as complex as humans and that another process was used... like evolution?

randolph · #3 07-31-2009

The intelligent design believers need to be reminded that humans took spider web genes from spiders, inserted them into goat eggs. Then raised the goats and guess what! The goats produce spider web in their milk!
It is only a matter of time until humans will be producing life from inert materials.

TS_aficionado · #4 07-31-2009

TracyCoxx:

"Is there only one or very few? No, there are billions - each sharing many commonalities but also subtle differences."

One human would obviously enough be designed. Billions would be an open and shut case.

"Are there other varieties of these things that suggests some kind of heritage? Yes, there are a wide range of other life forms and fossil records ranging from apes to amoebas that suggest a heritage of traits. Ranging from simple life forms 3.8 billion years ago to complex life forms seen now."

That suggestion is merely a something some Earthlings believe (a theory). It is not a fact.

"Do they demonstrate any means of reproduction which evolution would require? "

But reproduction does not go against intelligent design. The designer created this mechanism to allow the different species to continue existing.

"Conclusion: Humans evolved here."

If we take your previous points, then this the scenario we need to believe happened: There was nothing. Then (somehow) planets and materials existed. Then (somehow) simple life forms existed (this is miraculous on its own). Then amazingly enough, and without any guiding hand, this simple life form (somehow) got more complex over time. Then (somehow) it developed intelligence and consciousness. Then (somehow) it became millions upon millions of different species, including humans. Even an Atheist would require God for a somehow-laced scenario like that. If you take the somehows and fill in the blanks with "over the course of billions of years", that won't make it any more plausible, since order can not form in a random environment. Again, this is akin to putting all the right materials somewhere, then after billions of years expecting the materials to somehow put themselves together, form a computer, then form artificial intelligence. Impossible. Even more impossible if we expect inanimate objects to form real intelligence, language, DNA, life and consciousness.

TS_aficionado · #5 07-31-2009

Randolph:

"The intelligent design believers need to be reminded that humans took spider web genes from spiders, inserted them into goat eggs. Then raised the goats and guess what! The goats produce spider web in their milk!
It is only a matter of time until humans will be producing life from inert materials."

Ah, but you forgot that in order for that spider web goat milk to happen, it *required* an intelligent force (this time humans) who created the right environments then supervised this process until its success

The same thing with the universe: it required an intelligent force (God) to create all this material out of literally nothing, then provide us with the means to procreate and continue to exist. Even our orbit is meticulously calculated: a little further away from the sun, we'd freeze. A little closer, we'd burn. Gravity, plants, animals, everything is there for us to keep existing. Personally I'd go with a supernatural, intelligent designer than some big galactic coincidence.

TS_aficionado · #6 07-31-2009

Angry Postman: Thank you for your candor. Cheers

Tread · #7 07-31-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by TS_aficionado

If we take your previous points, then this the scenario we need to believe happened: There was nothing. Then (somehow) planets and materials existed. Then (somehow) simple life forms existed (this is miraculous on its own). Then amazingly enough, and without any guiding hand, this simple life form (somehow) got more complex over time. Then (somehow) it developed intelligence and consciousness. Then (somehow) it became millions upon millions of different species, including humans. Even an Atheist would require God for a somehow-laced scenario like that. If you take the somehows and fill in the blanks with "over the course of billions of years", that won't make it any more plausible, since order can not form in a random environment. Again, this is akin to putting all the right materials somewhere, then after billions of years expecting the materials to somehow put themselves together, form a computer, then form artificial intelligence. Impossible. Even more impossible if we expect inanimate objects to form real intelligence, language, DNA, life and consciousness.

Who said that first was nothing? No accepted Theories know what was in the beginning of our universe. But not knowing does not say that there was nothing, or something must create this.

I skip some time periods that are way under 1 second and I keep it simple and short. I skip antiparticles as well. The universe cools rapidly, Quarks occur. Quarks form Hadrons, which form Protons, Neutrons and Neutrinos. Leptons occur like Electrons. After 10 seconds Protons and Neutrons had a nuclear fusion to the first Atoms (first materials).
Planets occur much later. About 1 million years cloud of matter collapse because of gravitation. This created stars, planets and galaxies.

Chemical reactions formed Amino Acids, Lipids and Purines. They are all essential for our life forms. This is proven, search for chemical evolution and/or the Miller-Urey experiment, this is the most common.
Life itself gets more complicated. What is life? Define life so I don't have to explain everything. Must there be a Metabolism, Growth, Reproduction, and so on. Focus on Virus, Viroid, Prion, Fire, Cell, Spore(not the game) and Cryptobiosis. I'm not all knowing, but I try to answer further questions on life, it doesn't occur suddenly.

Microorganism can cooperate with other, and they exchange DNA. The DNA can grow by adding other DNA, or two Microorganisms live symbiotic and fusion together so that more than one DNA string is in a cell, typical for Microorganism. The complexity comes over time. I don't think I have to explain evolution. But if you have doubts about it and understand biology and genetic, than take a closer look at Epigenetics. Especially the problem with the "random mutations"

TracyCoxx · #8 08-01-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by TS_aficionado

"Are there other varieties of these things that suggests some kind of heritage? Yes, there are a wide range of other life forms and fossil records ranging from apes to amoebas that suggest a heritage of traits. Ranging from simple life forms 3.8 billion years ago to complex life forms seen now."

That suggestion is merely a something some Earthlings believe (a theory). It is not a fact.

Of course it's a theory, as is everything in science. It's not just a hypothesis. It's a theory that is backed up by observational evidence and used to predict results that experiments have confirmed. Calling something a theory does not mean it's BS. We have a theory of the atom. From that theory we have all the marvels of modern life.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TS_aficionado

"Do they demonstrate any means of reproduction which evolution would require? "

But reproduction does not go against intelligent design. The designer created this mechanism to allow the different species to continue existing.

By itself it is not proof of evolution. But it is required for evolution. If this computer on Jupiter does not reproduce, we can immediately rule out evolution.

An Intelligent Design theory invalidates itself. It makes the assumption that complex entities cannot exist without being designed. A designer would have to be much more complex than what he has allegedly designed, and would therefore require an even more complex designer.... and so on. Until this paradox is addressed, the intelligent design hypothesis falls flat on its face.

And yes, Intelligent Design is only a hypothesis. It does not even reach a status that you ridicule, which is a theory. To advance beyond a hypothesis, intelligent design needs to make a prediction. Then an experiment would have to be designed to test the prediction. This has not been done. After the experiment confirms the prediction, the hypothesis will remain as is, or may need to be tweaked based on observations. This process is repeated over and over again until the hypothesis can reliably predict outcomes and explain observations. Intelligent design has done none of this. Evolution has.

The Conquistador · #9 08-01-2009

Jenae, why must you attack mine and others beliefs? Have you nothing better to do than to revert to ad hominem? I believe in a higher power because too many things are in too perfect order to be left to coincidence. I never said that you had to believe in what I said. I just gave an explanation of why. I never threatened to thump you over the head with a bible and flay you because you have differing beliefs. Don't ask a question if the purpose is to blast someone for difference of opinion. It is rather rude.

#10 08-01-2009

when i reach the crossroads should i proceed forwards or go left or right ?

TracyCoxx · #11 08-01-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheAngryPostman

I believe in a higher power because too many things are in too perfect order to be left to coincidence.

Perfect order? How do you explain Obama being president? People say the earth is so perfect for life too. Well it has to be. Otherwise life wouldn't be here. I mean, no one's going to be crawling around on Mercury saying how unsuitable their world is for life because mercury IS unsuitable for life. Odds are, there are a few, maybe many, planets around the universe where conditions are right for life. On those planets there is probably some form of life. Life that has reached a level of intelligence will be marveling at how perfect their world is for life. Everywhere else, it's hell. You'd either need some kind of life support system or it would be downright impossible to life there at all.