Transsexuality and religion

[TheSkronkDonkey]

Superstition is gussied up fear and religion is gussied up superstition. Much art and beauty has emerged from religious thought and religious belief, but that still doesn't change the fact that religion is nothing more than the enshrinement and elevation of ignorance to the detriment and abandonment of logic, rationality, empiricism and true ethics. The need is human, the transgression is human, the perceived patterns of divinity are human-made -- on this basis, and only this basis, religion commands respect. However ...

If something divine exists, it must surely exist beyond all patterns. Time and again, human beings have made gross errors of judgment, founded on fear, fostered by ignorance, from believing that epilepsy was a sign of divine madness, to the Earth being at the centre of the universe, to comets being flaming swords, beards, jars, chariots, even the sum of all human sins, to deformity and disease a sign of a god's wrath or proof of evil spirits, to the idea that the universe emerged in a puff of smoke or that everything was created in six thousand years, that planets were birthed before stars, that plants functioned without sunlight and so on.

In the past 500 years, especially the last 150, science has made religion look like the colossally flawed interpretation of reality that it is. And it has done this not by attacking religion, but ignoring its tenets and sticking to its own, discovering things that no-one in their wildest imaginings could have believed. Science shames human imagination and makes us look like the feeble, dull-minded, dull-sensing species we are. Apart from by maintaining a bizarre, dissonant and downright solipsistic state of mind, I fail to see how anyone who is truly familiar with the progress of knowledge -- HOW it's been acquired and WHAT has been acquired -- just in the past few centuries could possibly maintain sincere faith in any system that requires belief in anything but evidence.

With science, we can determine what is sensible and what is not, we can improve and grow, we can build better technology, better societies, better ways of living, and a road to the stars; with religion, we lock ourselves away from the world, from its beauty and its horror, from the true scope of human suffering, from the true nature of what being human is, has been, will be and could be.

[Jenae LaTorque]

Originally Posted by TheSkronkDonkey

Superstition is gussied ........

///

............, has been, will be and could be.

Did you write this yourself? If so, I am impressed. This is a very well put, coherant, statement of your position; something that is very rare on this forum.

This would make a nice preface to my 1st question to the Postal guy on his ask me thread.

[TheSkronkDonkey]

Originally Posted by Jenae LaTorque

Did you write this yourself? If so, I am impressed. This is a very well put, coherant, statement of your position; something that is very rare on this forum.

Wow! Thank you very much, Jenae! Yes, I write everything from scratch, unless otherwise indicated.

Originally Posted by Jenae LaTorque

This would make a nice preface to my 1st question to the Postal guy on his ask me thread.

LOL! I don't know about that, but I'm sorry we have locked horns in your other thread. Although the impression I have given might be the opposite, I have actually been enjoying your thread, apart from the thing I chose to quibble. Our disagreement aside, you're eloquent, witty and very smart -- which, I have learned these past few years, is a mix of qualities that's a lot rarer than it should be.

[randolph]

Originally Posted by TheSkronkDonkey

Superstition is gussied up fear and religion is gussied up superstition. Much art and beauty has emerged from religious thought and religious belief, but that still doesn't change the fact that religion is nothing more than the enshrinement and elevation of ignorance to the detriment and abandonment of logic, rationality, empiricism and true ethics. The need is human, the transgression is human, the perceived patterns of divinity are human-made -- on this basis, and only this basis, religion commands respect. However ...

If something divine exists, it must surely exist beyond all patterns. Time and again, human beings have made gross errors of judgment, founded on fear, fostered by ignorance, from believing that epilepsy was a sign of divine madness, to the Earth being at the centre of the universe, to comets being flaming swords, beards, jars, chariots, even the sum of all human sins, to deformity and disease a sign of a god's wrath or proof of evil spirits, to the idea that the universe emerged in a puff of smoke or that everything was created in six thousand years, that planets were birthed before stars, that plants functioned without sunlight and so on.

In the past 500 years, especially the last 150, science has made religion look like the colossally flawed interpretation of reality that it is. And it has done this not by attacking religion, but ignoring its tenets and sticking to its own, discovering things that no-one in their wildest imaginings could have believed. Science shames human imagination and makes us look like the feeble, dull-minded, dull-sensing species we are. Apart from by maintaining a bizarre, dissonant and downright solipsistic state of mind, I fail to see how anyone who is truly familiar with the progress of knowledge -- HOW it's been acquired and WHAT has been acquired -- just in the past few centuries could possibly maintain sincere faith in any system that requires belief in anything but evidence.

With science, we can determine what is sensible and what is not, we can improve and grow, we can build better technology, better societies, better ways of living, and a road to the stars; with religion, we lock ourselves away from the world, from its beauty and its horror, from the true scope of human suffering, from the true nature of what being human is, has been, will be and could be.

An excellent post, very articulate. Science could be the salvation of humanity except for the fact that humans are not rational. They are driven by instincts, desires and of course the ego. Even scientists often behave irrationally. Unfortunately their research is sometimes influenced by politics and personal desires. I know, I was in University research for many years. Controlling the ego would be the first step in developing a rational society. In a following post, I would like to open for discussion an ancient Indian philosophy that deals with the ego and also transsexuality.
Its called Tantra.

[randolph]

Tantra
I also would like to put in my two cents worth. Indian mysticism and especially the philosophy Tantric yoga has significance for transsexuals. In Tantric yoga there is a God "Siva" and a Goddess "Parvati". Tantric adepts "worshipers" believe that Siva is inert until Parvati merges with him in sexual union. Parvati possesses the energy that enables Siva to create the universe. Some Tantric sects worship the transsexual aspect of this union and create statues representing this union as half male and half female, in other words transsexual.
Tantric philosophy reveals that the female energy of the Goddess is suppressed in males. In the male human, the ego actively suppresses the female spirit within, in order to maintain male ego dominance. This female energy can be activated and transcend the male ego by meditation and worshiping the Goddess (called kundalini in India). This energy rises from the base of the spine and can produces very powerful self awareness "enlightenment" if you will, with a feeling of bonding with the universe.
I suspect that male hostility directed toward transsexuals has something to do with the basic insecurity the male ego has toward females and especially toward males transcending into females. They know subconsciously that males are psychically inferior to females and their ego dominance is threatened. This is an extremely brief presentation of Tantric yoga and may not make much sense but I know from personal experience that it works. I am a straight male and Tantric yoga has made my relationship with women much easier. Sometime, I would like to know how well I could get along with a tgirl.

[TheSkronkDonkey]

Originally Posted by Tread

I think there was several Buddha's, and none of them is a god for anyone.

Originally Posted by Tread

They worship him for ...

The first banana is your former statement, the one butt-fucking it is the latter.

Originally Posted by Tread

Buddhism is the only big religion that is not totally based on once spoken words. I think Buddha said something like that: always think by yourself and to question teachings.

And it's totally against hating and very tolerant. As long as you are not a cause of affliction everything is fine. It's the own religion that allows to belief in other religions while being Buddhist.

Yes, some of the ideas in religion are quite beautiful. Others, however, are quite horrid. And anything beautiful can easily be made horrible if it is never questioned -- which is religion in a nutshell.

Originally Posted by randolph

An excellent post, very articulate.

My thanks.

Originally Posted by randolph

Science could be the salvation of humanity except for the fact that humans are not rational.

I'm not sure science could ever be our salvation, but it's the best system we've ever developed, and the most logical and humanising one of all.

Originally Posted by randolph

They are driven by instincts, desires and of course the ego. Even scientists often behave irrationally. Unfortunately their research is sometimes influenced by politics and personal desires.

Very true. Scientists are human. To err is to be human.

Originally Posted by randolph

Controlling the ego would be the first step in developing a rational society.

It would be a very important and essential step.

Originally Posted by randolph

In a following post, I would like to open for discussion an ancient Indian philosophy that deals with the ego and also transsexuality.
Its called Tantra.

From my perspective, the way to do it is through critical thinking -- which is the opposite of religious dogma, on multiple levels.

Originally Posted by randolph

Tantra
I also would like to put in my two cents worth. Indian mysticism and especially the philosophy Tantric yoga has significance for transsexuals. In Tantric yoga there is a God "Siva" and a Goddess "Parvati". Tantric adepts "worshipers" believe that Siva is inert until Parvati merges with him in sexual union. Parvati possesses the energy that enables Siva to create the universe. Some Tantric sects worship the transsexual aspect of this union and create statues representing this union as half male and half female, in other words transsexual.
Tantric philosophy reveals that the female energy of the Goddess is suppressed in males. In the male human, the ego actively suppresses the female spirit within, in order to maintain male ego dominance. This female energy can be activated and transcend the male ego by meditation and worshiping the Goddess (called kundalini in India). This energy rises from the base of the spine and can produces very powerful self awareness "enlightenment" if you will, with a feeling of bonding with the universe.
I suspect that male hostility directed toward transsexuals has something to do with the basic insecurity the male ego has toward females and especially toward males transcending into females. They know subconsciously that males are psychically inferior to females and their ego dominance is threatened. This is an extremely brief presentation of Tantric yoga and may not make much sense but I know from personal experience that it works. I am a straight male and Tantric yoga has made my relationship with women much easier. Sometime, I would like to know how well I could get along with a tgirl.

A very nice post. You seem like a mature and sensitive person. That said, I choose evolutionary psychology (and other branches and academic disciplines), not the ways of Tantra. Science, not religion.

[randolph]

Originally Posted by TheSkronkDonkey

The first banana is your former statement, the one butt-fucking it is the latter.





Yes, some of the ideas in religion are quite beautiful. Others, however, are quite horrid. And anything beautiful can easily be made horrible if it is never questioned -- which is religion in a nutshell.



My thanks.



I'm not sure science could ever be our salvation, but it's the best system we've ever developed, and the most logical and humanising one of all.



Very true. Scientists are human. To err is to be human.



It would be a very important and essential step.



From my perspective, the way to do it is through critical thinking -- which is the opposite of religious dogma, on multiple levels.



A very nice post. You seem like a mature and sensitive person. That said, I choose evolutionary psychology (and other branches and academic disciplines), not the ways of Tantra. Science, not religion.

Thanks for the positive response. I agree that evolutionary psychology is basic to understanding how the brain works. I view Tantra not as a religion but as a way of "adjusting" the mind. Eckard Tolle is another way on this path. A number scientists have been impressed with Tantra/Hindu wisdom including Schrodinger and Oppenheimer.
Oppenheimer's comments and thoughts after the first bomb test
"Oppenheimer later recalled that, while witnessing the explosion, he thought of a verse from the Hindu holy book, the Bhagavad Gita:
" If the radiance of a thousand suns were to burst at once into the sky, that would be like the splendor of the mighty one... "
"Years later he would explain that another verse had also entered his head at that time: namely, the famous verse; "Kalo Asmi Loka-ksaya-krit Pravardho, Lokan Samartum iha Pravattah"[47] and was quoted by Oppenheimer after the successful detonation of the first nuclear weapon. He translated it as "Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds."

[TheSkronkDonkey]

Originally Posted by randolph

Thanks for the positive response.

No problem.

I think people can converse with respect, from time to time.

Originally Posted by randolph

I agree that evolutionary psychology is basic to understanding how the brain works. I view Tantra not as a religion but as a way of "adjusting" the mind.

Well, every system is steeped in some degree of truth -- but it depends on the system (and the individual's interpretation of the system and what comes out of it).

Originally Posted by randolph

Eckard Tolle is another way on this path. A number scientists have been impressed with Tantra/Hindu wisdom including Schrodinger and Oppenheimer.
Oppenheimer's comments and thoughts after the first bomb test
"Oppenheimer later recalled that, while witnessing the explosion, he thought of a verse from the Hindu holy book, the Bhagavad Gita:
" If the radiance of a thousand suns were to burst at once into the sky, that would be like the splendor of the mighty one... "
"Years later he would explain that another verse had also entered his head at that time: namely, the famous verse; "Kalo Asmi Loka-ksaya-krit Pravardho, Lokan Samartum iha Pravattah"[47] and was quoted by Oppenheimer after the successful detonation of the first nuclear weapon. He translated it as "Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds."

When you look at these comments ...... what is actually being said?

That humanity has raised itself up to the level of a god with our scientific breakthroughs and our technology, so we had better develop equally great levels of compassion and wisdom to go with them. The citations are very powerful and very apt.

[Tread]

Originally Posted by TheSkronkDonkey

The first banana is your former statement, the one butt-fucking it is the latter.

Yes, stupid dictionary. I meant admire, idolize, or something like that. Not the god like.