Castration: DISCUSSION

[digit]

Don,t they have a surgery that will put them in your abdomen.I know some SRS put them there so they still keep there sex drive. So why couldn,t this happen.

[Mel Asher]

Originally Posted by digit

Don,t they have a surgery that will put them in your abdomen.I know some SRS put them there so they still keep there sex drive. So why couldn,t this happen.

Yes, Digit, and it is comparatively minor surgery too. Only problem would be with the nerves to the scrotum. However, for those members interested, this frees up the scrotal sac for other surgical techniques, creation of Labia for example to be combined with possibly a resection of the colon ( definitely not to be undertaken lightly ). Then, what to do with the remaining dangly bit, Lord Willy himself. . ? Seems a shame to waste a nice cock . . . !

[TJSTILL]

Originally Posted by Mel Asher

Yes, Digit, and it is comparatively minor surgery too. Only problem would be with the nerves to the scrotum. However, for those members interested, this frees up the scrotal sac for other surgical techniques, creation of Labia for example to be combined with possibly a resection of the colon ( definitely not to be undertaken lightly ). Then, what to do with the remaining dangly bit, Lord Willy himself. . ? Seems a shame to waste a nice cock . . . !

Placing the testis in the abdominal space can considerably increase susceptability to testicular cancer. Undescended testicles are often displaced into the scotum to give a lower opertaing temperature if its possible. Unmoved testicles are very much more likely to develop cancer and are sometimes removed. I think it highly unlikly that a consciencious surgeon would move the testicles into the abdomen unless there was no other choice, certainly cosmetic considerations should not come into play with this

[racquel]

I am a pre-op transsexual woman. I live full-time as a woman. I have been on hormones for about 3 years, and I have boobs that I grew all by myself.

I thought maybe I could clear some things up.



You don't need testosterone to have a sex drive.

A lot of people seem to think that removing testosterone totally kills your sex drive.

Testosterone makes you urgently horny, like you just need to cum. If you don't have testosterone you're probably not going to masturbate five times a day, but you can still have a sex drive. Note that this does not apply to sexually compulsive women who were usually molested when they were younger, because they like to masturbate every day anyway.

When I was full of testosterone I was horny most of the time, but I was also kinda disgusted with myself and there wasn't really much feeling behind it. Being full of estrogen I have a much deeper meaningful need for sex. It's different, but it's definitely still a sex drive.

I even hear trans girls say things sometimes about having no sex drive or arousal without testosterone, and I really have to wonder how feminine your brain is if having estrogen instead of testosterone makes you lose sexual function. Most trans women have a regular female sex drive.



About hormones

Everybody has some estrogen and some testosterone. The testicles are not the only things that make testosterone; your adrenal glands make testosterone, and in some people they make a lot. I know one person who had her testicles removed and her pituitary started making excessive testosterone. So sometimes you can have a lot of testosterone without testicles. After all, genetic women have no testicles, and some of them have plenty testosterone.

If you take testosterone (like a bodybuilder on steroids) your body will eventually atrophy your testicles because they're not needed. Your body also tries to balance itself out. Habitual steroid abusers eventually need breast reductions because their body starts producing a lot of estrogen and they grow little boob lumps (gynecomastia). The opposite is also true to some extenet.

All sex hormones are steroids, and all steroids compete with each other to some degree for steroid receptors. Testosterone blocks estrogen and estrogen blocks testosterone.

This leads us to the fact that trans girls need to be on testosterone blockers. It is actually more important to be on testosterone blockers than it is to be on estrogen. Being on estrogen alone won't usually do much except maybe give you a tiny lump behind your nipples because you still have all that testosterone, and when your estrogen increases your body might increase your testosterone to compensate.



Growing boobs can be difficult

Most trans women would really like to grow boobs instead of just getting a boob job. This can be very difficult. Everybody is affected differently by different hormones and different drugs. Some people grow big boobs just by taking 2mg of estrogen per day and a testosterone blocker, but this is very rare. Most people's liver destroys the majority of estrogen taken in pill form. People generally resort to upping their dosage to high levels (greater risk of blood clots), switching to Premarin (horse estrogen which is more effective but also has greater risk of side effects), or switching to injections. Some people try various forms of progesterone. There are also different testosterone blockers, but the vast majority of people in the US take Spiro.

But the bottom line is many people go crazy and will do whatever it takes for feminization with no regard for their ability to maintain an erection or ejaculate. If they think it'll help they'll probably get an orchiectomy (castration).



Testosterone blockers are chemical castration

A genetic female has some testosterone. Even a castrated male has some testosterone. But a transsexual on testosterone blockers usually has much lower testosterone than either one.

When you're on testosterone blockers your testicles will atrophy. In a few months you'll be permanently sterile. In about a year your testicles will be much smaller. After that, you are essentially castrated. If you stop taking testosterone blockers your testicles probably aren't going to make a recovery and return to their normal size.

Many people who have gone back off T-blockers regained some testosterone after a few months, but that's not guaranteed. Many people can stop taking T-blockers and as long as they still take estrogen that's enough to suppress the testosterone.

I stopped taking T-blockers and estrogen for a month because my meds got lost in the mail (actually the Indian post office sent them to the wrong country), and I felt totally run down, severely depressed, and crazier than usual. I also lost 10 lbs. and am close to looking anorexic. I did not, however, revert to waking up with a raging hard-on and grow hair on my ass just because I haven't gotten rid of my testicles.

Some people can be on testosterone blockers for years, but as soon as they stop their testosterone will shoot back up because their pituitary makes a lot of testosterone. But testosterone blockers will still permanantly change your body.



Most girls in shemale porn aren't taking hormones

Or at least they're not taking significant levels. It's hard enough to grow boobs when you're doing all you can. It's nearly impossible to find some middle ground where you can grow boobs but still use your cock on demand like a pornstar.

A trans girl on estrogen gets a dark stripe all the way down her urethra. This is very easy to spot.

When you're on hormones, you can still have an orgasm, but you're not going to shoot a lot of cum. Some people have totally dry orgasms within a few months. Some people still produce ejaculate after years on hormones, but it's a lot less, and it's not going to get airborn.

Notice that in most shemale porn they also have obvious boob jobs. Plenty non-pornstar trans girls get boob jobs, but in porn it's at least 90% because most of them aren't even trying to feminize except superficially through surgery.



About erections...

When you have the testosterone of a male you wake up with an erection every day. When you don't, you don't wake up with an erection. It just never happens. And you don't get random erections for no reason throughout the day. This doesn't mean you can't get an erection, but it does make 100% mental. Some trans women are proud of never getting erections, but for many it's definitely possible. Still, you have to be legitimately turned on, so people who are on hormones often use Viagra to get it up for porn. Viagra works fine because all it does is dilate the blood vessels and give you an artificial hard-on. No testosterone required.

A lot of girls on hormones say they can't get it up. You definitely have to be in the right place mentally. I get them, but they're often pretty painful. Many times I've felt like I had the world's biggest erection and ... well ... it was barely hard. But usually things work OK.



Why would anybody get castrated?

Testosterone blockers can be harsh. I take Cypro (Cyproterone, or Androcur). That's what many people outside the US take, but in the US it is not approved by the FDA, so all the trans women in the US take Spiro (Spironolactone, or Aldactone). Spiro is a strong potassium-sparing diuretic. When I took it, it constipated me and gave me heart palpations and severe muscle cramps if I got a lot of potassium. Spiro also hinders feminization a bit by counteracting progesterone.

Even after a few years of testosterone blockers, people will still keep taking them just to be sure they don't have testosterone. Getting your testicles removed usually means you can stop taking testosterone blockers (unless your body goes crazy and makes a lot of testosterone without testicles). Then you can be sure that all you need is a little estrogen. It saves you from taking a ton of pills, taking harsh diuretics, and having to look at a weird half-empty scrotum in the mirror.

Physiologically it doesn't make much difference whether or not you have testicles if those testicles aren't functioning anyway. In any civilized country, the people getting orchiectomies have already chemically castrated themselves. No hospital is going to just let you walk in and get the procedure done. You have to be transsexual and have been on hormones for a long time, and then it's just done so you can stop taking T blockers. After an orchiectomy you will stop taking T blockers and you will actually have slightly higher testosterone because of the little bit your body makes outside the testicles.

[racquel]

Some prices

You can get a boob job for about $4,000. A good one will be more. You can get a basic facelift for about $4,000, but you can easily spend more like $40,000 - $50,000 for facial feminization.

An orchiectomy (castration) costs about $2,000. SRS (sex reassignment) costs about $12,000 in Thailand and $20,000 in the US. SRS with limited depth (i.e. a hoo-hoo that you can't put anything in) costs around $8,000.

A lot of people seem to get the orchiectomy first just because it is a relatively cheap and simple procedure and it makes them feel like they're accomplishing something towards their transition. It's not going to magically make you more feminine if you've already blocked all your testosterone anyway.

If you're getting your hormone levels checked by a doctor, you should be able to greatly reduce your intake of T-blockers after a year or two, so I really don't see the point in the procedure except for cosmetic purposes. I don't think a half-empty scrotum looks sexy anymore than I think big dangling vagina lips look sexy. But that's a moot point, because if you're ever considering getting full SRS, you have to keep most of the scrotal skin so the doctor has more to work with during the labioplasty.



Public Service Announcement About Genital Mutilation Fantasies

I need to say that I'm offended by the OP Tailia, CuriousGirl (who I've bitched about plenty before) and a few others. They in no uncertain terms have said they get off on the idea of trans women being castrated with or without consent. That's disgusting. If someone truly wants such a procedure, knows the consequences, and is not being coerced it's fine, but otherwise we are talking about genital mutililation. CuriousGirl is obviously lying about most of the things she posts and experiences she says she has had. I don't think she's even female, because she's shown that she knows very little about the female anatomy. I even had to correct her about how tampons work.

But playing along with these sociopaths (or just plain retards in the case of CuriousGirl) is the same as saying female circumcision is OK. Actually it's worse because at least with female circumcision the recipient's hormones (and therefore their entire mental and physiological state) aren't permanently altered. It's horrifying that the rest of you can sit there and read things like, "I do adore the thought of shemale balls clinking into the pan," without calling the person saying it a sick freak. Maybe you want to castrate people. Maybe you want to rape and murder people. Keep it to yourself, though, and try to pretend you're sane. When insane people start supporting each other in their psychopathic fantasies, that's when you get NAMBLA.

I was glad to see Ila (and then Hank) speak up about this at post 193, although that seemed mostly focused on one particular guy who didn't seem all that bad to me.



Public Service Announcement About Words That Offend Trannys

If you're going to talk about castration, you should know that the medical procedure is called an orchiectomy. Castration is what it's called when you're chopping the balls off a farm animal. Castration is what you say you want to do to a sex offender. The medical community and the trans community almost exclusively use the clinical term orchiectomy. "Castrate" and "shemale" (and even "ladyboy") are going to offend a lot of trans girls because to them you are referencing their maleness. I know most people here mean no disrespect. I'm just saying you'll have to watch yourself in public if you don't want to look like an asshole.

And for most trans women, the word "tranny" is kinda like "nigger" for black people or "redneck" for white people. Some people may refer to themselves or others like themselves using those words, but they're still going to be offended if someone else gives them that label.



Responding to specific things in the thread...

Originally Posted by tux

One of the reason for getting castrated as a shemale, is that the orgasm wil be more intense and more like the orgasm of a female.. That is one of the reasons.

Saying things about having "male" orgasms before you're castrated and "female" orgasms after... well... that's partially true, and the type of sexual build-up you feel is a lot different when you're full of testosterone and just need to cum vs. when you're full of estrogen and just need to feel the emotion, but again, the fact is that it's awfully rare for someone to get their testicles removed without having already been on T-blockers long enough to be having dry orgams.

Tux also said some other bizarre stuff like implying shemales inject testosterone to get hard. Some people have claimed to do that, but I doubt it. If you're having erection trouble, Viagra is a whole lot easier, and it doesn't work against all your efforts to be feminine.

Originally Posted by redball

Most of the ladies in the ball less pictures seem to be having no trouble getting hard. They would still be able to shoot, as 99% of semen comes from the prostate. I had a vasectomy many years ago and I only noticed a slightly lesser volume of cum.

When you cum, pre-cum comes from the Cowper's glands, when you actually shoot, the first cum (the semen that contains all the sperm), comes from the prostate, then everything else that oozes out comes from the seminal vesicles. The prostate atrophies almost completely in the absence of testosterone, and the others tend to atrophy quite a bit, so if there's no testosterone you're left with a wet spot if you're lucky, but no shooting.

Originally Posted by honda

Does this removal or lack of the items make it a lot easier to lose unwanted hair?

No, it's hard to lose unwanted hair once you've already got it, but lack of testosterone does thin out body hair a bit, and estrogen makes your hair more fine and often more curly and your skin softer.

Originally Posted by digit

Don,t they have a surgery that will put them in your abdomen.I know some SRS put them there so they still keep there sex drive. So why couldn,t this happen.

Where the hell did you hear that? This is certainly not a procedure anybody does in the US.

Originally Posted by i love Saenz

Shemales should have their balls! They are sexual persons just like the rest of us. And without their balls they will not get aroused or have any sexual pleasure.

Why the hell do people think stuff like that? Genetic females don't have balls. Are you saying they do not get aroused or have any sexual pleasure?

Originally Posted by sirmartinfrobisher

I am a mod on other ts forums and I once asked why the girls didnt rush to get castrated. They said their hormone doctors had told them that they still needed the testosterone. I am not qualified to comment but I respect their needs.
jr

That's not true. You don't really need testosterone. Although if you don't have testosterone or estrogen you'll get severe osteoporosis, hot flashes, and other problems including probably dying sooner.

Many doctors will recommend orchiectomy after a few years on HRT because they're worried about the long-term effects of the drugs.

Originally Posted by Charlotte

... I was taking provera initially which knocked my testosterone to a level lower than what would be considered low for a genetic female. My doctor said that essentially I had no testosterone. At that point I went on estrogen.
The provera caused me to shrink to the point that I looked like I had been surgically castated with the scrotum shrinking also. My penis looked like a button being sort of an "innie" rather than an "outie". When I started on estrogen I stopped the provera and slowly the penis and testicles regained some size but have stayed very small. ...

I find your story hard to believe.

First, Provera is not used for chemical castration. It is not a testosterone blocker. It is a progestin, and not a very good one in pill form (it is mostly distroyed in the stomach and liver). Depo-provera (the injectable form) also has bad side effects for most people including weight gain, often severe depression, and usually no positive effects to speak of. Provera is used to treat menstrual problems, and Depo-provera is used for birth control.

Second, no pill makes your penis shrink. Being on testosterone blockers for years only causes it to shrink some because you're not erect for hours a day so it naturally shrinks a little, but you're not going to get an "innie" penis unless you were already microscopic. And stopping taking whatever it was won't make your penis grow again unless you start getting erections all the time again.

Third, estrogen has more of an anti-testosterone effect than progesterone, so if you had no testosterone and you started estrogen and stopped Provera you wouldn't have testosterone come back.