Does liking shemales make you gay?

[javabox]

Originally Posted by Bionca

Here is the deal from my perspective - does it matter if you are?

Answering for myself? No. In my comment above, I was merely responding to a statement that Franalexes made ("You like shemales, not for the 'male' but for the 'she'"), and responding using the terms in which the statement was framed. That was not intended as a validation of those terms. The statement ("You like shemales, not for the 'male' but for the 'she'") seems as reductive, and as much an oversimplification, as if a het person were to take the opposite tack and say: "if you're attracted to a trans person, just accept that you're gay, and get on with life".

The point is that framing it as an either/or proposition is not going to work. The conventional categories themselves do not work. The premise and terms of the discussion itself lack validity.

Again though, I could be wrong, and I would be interested in reading the other posts to which Franalexes alluded.

[smc]

Originally Posted by javabox

... framing it as an either/or proposition is not going to work. The conventional categories themselves do not work.

You are absolutely right: framing it as an either/or does not work. I would contend that it should not work; in fact, I don't want it to work, because it leads us right back to labeling, or -- as you put it -- "conventional categories."

No one could rationally deny that there is a point in labels and categorization: it serves to make easier the understanding that all of us seek. But it has such a horrid downside.

What joy there is in coming around to just being who you are without anyone else defining it.

[Bionca]

Well, the answer - either way denies some large portion of my life. If I say "yes" you are gay.. then my identity is a lie and I'm a guy with tits. If I say "no" and assure guys they are totally hetero, then I deny the fact I was perceived as a gay guy, harassed as a gay guy. It belittles an important and formative point in my life. It can also make it seem that I couldn't "cut it" as a gay guy and took the easy way of hetero living.

While asked of the men here, the answer affects me and gals like me - because we can't win. We can't win because no matter how much we all may want something, society will still call you and I "fags". Maybe I have a leg up, since I grew up with that one.

[javabox]

Seems like a lot of us are saying the same thing ... it isn't as simple as yes/no, either/or, etc.

I like the point smc is making ... that it's hard to get through life without using labels and categories ... the act of using language is one of labeling, to a large extent. But often the labels, as much as we try to apply them, fall down ... they just don't "stick". Eventually language and constructs may catch up with what is ... language does evolve. But I'm in agreement with those who aren't holding their breath, or waiting around for it to.

[Bionca]

Yes, mostly the general outcome of this question is "it doesn't matter" or that there isn't a neat tidy label to apply. But, it keeps coming up. There must be some reason why this so often asked. I think probably the answer to "why are you asking" may reveal quite a bit of information.

[javabox]

Originally Posted by Bionca

Yes, mostly the general outcome of this question is "it doesn't matter" or that there isn't a neat tidy label to apply. But, it keeps coming up. There must be some reason why this so often asked. I think probably the answer to "why are you asking" may reveal quite a bit of information.

Agreed, but seems like it's a small number that ask (only takes one to start a thread, right?) and exponentially more that reply ... mostly with something to the effect of "it doesn't matter", "not that simple," etc. The reason it's asked probably does have something to do with internalized homophobia ... but maybe also with a fear of ambiguity, with a lack of comfort with with what can't yet be named...

[smc]

Bionca writes that there must be some reason why this so often asked. She continues, "I think probably the answer to 'why are you asking' may reveal quite a bit of information.

javabox adds: "The reason it's asked probably does have something to do with internalized homophobia ... but maybe also with a fear of ambiguity, with a lack of comfort with with what can't yet be named ..."

Here's an idea. I once saw a website that was geared toward men who wanted to be "sissified" and that had a big forum where they could get "assignments" from "mistresses" to help them along the way. How about an assignment for all of those who can admit to a fear of ambiguity or who are uncomfortable with what can't yet be named or, most important, who can admit to themselves that they are homophobic of themselves?

Start with a friend you trust, and 'fess up. State unequivocally: "I am attracted to transgendered women [or men]."

Just do it, and don't take any shit for it.

To quote the lyrics from an old En Vogue song:

Free your mind, and the rest will follow ...

I am exactly where my signature line states, and I'll be telling someone tomorrow.

[randolph]

When I was young, I went camping with male friends. Sometimes, after a few beers, we would do a "circle jerk" contest to see who would cum first. We didn't go beyond that because we were not sexually attracted to each other. I had one mutual masturbation experience, again it didn't get me turned on to "boys". GIRLS were the primary interest. Girls are still my primary interest, it turns out that some of them have cocks. So be it! Everyone can choose the kind of person they like and the kind of sex they like. That's how our cousins the Bonobos do it and they have very few conflicts.

[McLuvinladyboys]

Originally Posted by Bionca

Well, the answer - either way denies some large portion of my life. If I say "yes" you are gay.. then my identity is a lie and I'm a guy with tits. If I say "no" and assure guys they are totally hetero, then I deny the fact I was perceived as a gay guy, harassed as a gay guy. It belittles an important and formative point in my life. It can also make it seem that I couldn't "cut it" as a gay guy and took the easy way of hetero living.

While asked of the men here, the answer affects me and gals like me - because we can't win. We can't win because no matter how much we all may want something, society will still call you and I "fags". Maybe I have a leg up, since I grew up with that one.

the answer doesnt have anything to do with you or the other girls, you know what you are, you made your choices and are very proud and happy about them(well you should be i suppose that is why you have to talk to a therapist before undergoing everything)
this isnt about what you think about us its about what WE think of us. you had your moment of personal "crisis" your moment of desicion and thats good, very good. now we are undergoing a similar moment of desicion. its not going to change if we like shemales or not, if liking them makes us gay or not, i suppose a lot of us want to know so we can label ourselves, like humans very much like to do. its important to you if you are seen as a girl with a cock or a man with tits. you said so yourself, you seem to desire the label that you put on yourself. you dont care if i see you as one or the other, at least you shouldnt.

fact is it makes us a little on the gay side, but who cares? is it really that important in the long run, arent there more important things to worry about