"Real Girls"

[orion]

Originally Posted by GGadmirer

Now why on earth should only 'a sad little man in a dirty raincoat' admire such determination?

Hi GGadmirer ...

To answer your question .. it's not so much that only "sad little men in dirty rain coats" admire Transwomen .. Admiration & respect are open to everyone, if they so choose ..

The fact is that there are a large group of men who continue to perceive Transwomen as something "risky", "dangerous", "fun", "different" .. in other words a secret little fetish which they'd rather their families, work colleagues or friends didn't know they liked ..

They indulge their "little secret" on the quiet .. and then scuttle off home to the wife .. as if nothing had ever happened ..

These are the people who lack the moral conviction to admit (sometimes even to themselves) that they find Transwomen attractive .. so, they "lurk" on the fringes .. thus giving those of us who are perfectly open about what we like & don't like a bad name ..

A bad name that is, amongst Transwomen .. from my own personal experience, I've been told by T-Girls whom I've dated that once they'd got past the initial "Admirer" thing .. I was totally different from what they'd been expecting ..

As has been said in previous posts .. labels (of all kinds) can be pernicious, whether applied to Transwomen .. or to those of us who prefer their company & treat them as women and with the respect to which they're entitled, as people ..

Hence my dislike for the term "Admirer" .. I wish there were some practical way of separating the two ...

I happen to be one of the fortunate ones in that I'm in a loving, caring, stable relationship with my girlfriend, Jenny .. a vivacious, down-to-earth, very attractive Transwoman .. whom I happen to love very much and whose company I'm proud to be in ...

[hankhavelock]

Originally Posted by orion

Hence my dislike for the term "Admirer" .. I wish there were some practical way of separating the two ...

Mizzy B and I tried here at this forum to find other terms... unsuccesfully...

1. "Admirer" is a little bit too much like a kinky, ugly grease ball in the proverbial rain coat...

2. "Tranny-Chaser" sounds like a drink... "Can I have two Buds and a Tranny-Chaser on the side... make it a double, will ya. Be generous on the spunk...?"

3. "Tranny-lover" is also cheasy... a guy secretly jerking off to his fascination...

4. "Tranny-chaser"... he goes to Bangkok twice a year and keeps it hidden... but he makes little dots in his bed every time he beds a little tranny down...

My sweet Fey once called me a "shemale-collector" and a "shemale-protector", but I doubt that applies either...

So what is the term for us hideous, abnormal perverts?

I dunno - "a guy like me who likes a girl like her..." ? That's still the best, though, a highly user-unfriendly and impractical term...

H

[smc]

Hank writes,

Originally Posted by hankhavelock

I dunno - "a guy like me who likes a girl like her..." ? That's still the best, though, a highly user-unfriendly and impractical term...H

This is hardly "user-unfriendly and impractical". Rather, it is almost perfect in that it avoids creating a label, and labels are -- as we can read throughout this forum -- the source of so much angst and asinine thought.

[hankhavelock]

Originally Posted by smc

Hank writes,



This is hardly "user-unfriendly and impractical". Rather, it is almost perfect in that it avoids creating a label, and labels are -- as we can read throughout this forum -- the source of so much angst and asinine thought.

It's still impractical...

Question: "Hey Hank, are you gay or str8?"

Answer: "I'm a tranny-lover"

versus

Question: "Hey Hank, are you gay or str8?"

Answer: "I'm a guy like me who likes a girl like her..."

Question: "What is that?"

Answer: "My girlfriend is transsexual"

Question: "Oh, why didn't you say so to my first question...?"

[smc]

Hank poses the following imaginary conversation to support that his phrase is "impractical":

Originally Posted by hankhavelock

Question: "Hey Hank, are you gay or str8?"

Answer: "I'm a guy like me who likes a girl like her..."

Question: "What is that?"

Answer: "My girlfriend is transsexual"

Question: "Oh, why didn't you say so to my first question...?"

How about this answer:

What difference does it make?

[hankhavelock]

Originally Posted by smc

Hank poses the following imaginary conversation to support that his phrase is "impractical":



How about this answer:

What difference does it make?

That's basicly what I answer... but it still would be easier if guys like me who like girls like her could have a more prudent label...

[smc]

I'm sure you realize that I'm not really arguing with you. I just wish so much that we all would stop worrying about labels. The endless threads asking about being gay make me want to scream.

Of course, I blame seriously skewed social mores, and the fact that (especially in the United States) "morality" is about matters sexual and rarely about truly amoral things like poverty and war, rather than the individuals who keep posing these questions and fretting over how others will judge their sexual preferences.

[Bionca]

I like how this has turned into a discussion of labels as they apply to the cis* folks who date gals like me.

It is a mark of privilege to be able to say that labels don't matter. The reality is, to society at large, they DO matter. A cis* person does not have basic choices and aspects of their identity and life routinely questioned, discounted, and invalidated. A heterosexual person does not have their relationships routinely belittled and called perverted. A white person is not told that race is the most important part of who they are.

You can go on and believe that labels don't matter. The reality is, you will be labeled and probably incorrectly at that. Even amongst the Trans* community, you guys are labeled as "chasers" and "admirers" (at best) - neither of these are particularly flattering. Both of them apply to a large segment of guys who are attracted to trans* women.

Chaser - has a connotation of someone eternally looking to move on. Chasing one girl after another, never satisfied with who he has.

Admirer - Is passive, where Chaser is active. A guy who lurks in the shadows, has dirty secrets and then slinks back to his life with no investment (other than economic) and no ties.

These are the roles set for you guys to work with. You can either be comfortable with them, work against them, or come up with something else. The benefit of having a label, a name, an identity is to claim the ability to self-definition. Self-determination is the first step to liberation for all of us.

[hankhavelock]

Originally Posted by smc

Hank writes,



This is hardly "user-unfriendly and impractical". Rather, it is almost perfect in that it avoids creating a label, and labels are -- as we can read throughout this forum -- the source of so much angst and asinine thought.

But I do agree totally with your point. I think that we're all more comfortable with labels, however, the fact that it is even almost impossible to find a describing label for "a guy like me who likes a girl like her" is thought-provoking... maybe we simply don't exist??? There are terms for so many things - but not for a tranny-lover...

You can be heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, transsexual... but where does that leave me?

The entire problem is, that the term "sexual" is misplaced. A homosexual is someone who is sexually attracted to her or his own sex... a transsexual is someone who identifies as her or his opposite gender. Nothing to do with sexual orientation here.

And it all comes down to the fact that transgenderism is minority and no need to take us seriously. We're just so much freaks that the hetero-laymen (or homo-laymen, for that matter) cannot even label us correctly...

:-)

[ila]

I don't see a need to give a label or a term to anybody. I am just me. Instead of agonizing or contemplating over what others may call you, call yourself what you want to be known as. I am a man and that's all that is required.

[aa2239]

Originally Posted by ila

I don't see a need to give a label or a term to anybody. I am just me. Instead of agonizing or contemplating over what others may call you, call yourself what you want to be known as. I am a man and that's all that is required.

My thoughts exactly, let's keep it nice and simple.... there is such a thing as over-analysis! Makes for very interesting forum discussion though :-)