New and Looking

[The Conquistador]

For me, the attraction to a ts is one of personal courage and independence. Obviously you don't give a damn about what other people think and want to live life as you see fit. It also shows that you have a strong will and determination and there is nothing more attractive than a woman who can fight off the world and still keep her head up high in the face of opposition. That's what I like about ts. They tend to have a stronger character than a gg because they have experienced so much crap and hardship and come out a better person because of it.

[BBboySingle]

Hi Bionica, First i must say it you are truly beautiful no doubt about it, i truly hope that some day you will be able to find the guy who's perfect for you and some that will understand, it is true that we men have the fantasy to be whit a t-gilr but some do understand and wouldn't mind that you weren't born as a girl but no matter the past what matters is the present and the future your beautiful and strong hang in there

[O'Sully TS Hopeful]

Bionca I think that you are GORGEOUS and deserve the man in the world. I know that if was still a hetero man then I would give you all the love and respect that you deserve. Too bad I want to be a tgirl so bad otherwise maybe we could've hooked up.

[Limegirl]

Originally Posted by TheAngryPostman

For me, the attraction to a ts is one of personal courage and independence. Obviously you don't give a damn about what other people think and want to live life as you see fit. It also shows that you have a strong will and determination and there is nothing more attractive than a woman who can fight off the world and still keep her head up high in the face of opposition. That's what I like about ts. They tend to have a stronger character than a gg because they have experienced so much crap and hardship and come out a better person because of it.

Yes, that is very true, we TS-girls have going through many rough experiences to make our bodys fit our inner picture of ourselves as women, we are women born in male bodies and that is an unmiagble tradegy for us.
We had to fight the societys prejudies, live in fear of violence, harazzments, contempt or at least total lack of understanding for our situation.
That fact makes me furius, I dont hurt anyone, leave me alone and let me live my life, why should this be so provocatice to many people? havent they other things to do then putting their noses in things that not are of their concern?
This is not a sexual thing, transexualism, its about life and death.
I want true love and respect and the best thing to achive this is to fit in the mainstream society so much as possible.
I want to have an naturale female approach, not an unaturale approach like many transvestites have with vulgar clothes, make up and offensive manners, looking like ugly hookers on the street.
/Limegirl

[rastarzan]

thats the way it is but in the end it is worth isnt it

[Limegirl]

Originally Posted by rastarzan

thats the way it is but in the end it is worth isnt it

Yes, its worth EVERYTHING.., its a question of life and death for me...

[ila]

Originally Posted by Limegirl

This is not a sexual thing, transexualism, its about life and death.
I want true love and respect and the best thing to achive this is to fit in the mainstream society so much as possible.
I want to have an naturale female approach, not an unaturale approach like many transvestites have with vulgar clothes, make up and offensive manners, looking like ugly hookers on the street.
/Limegirl

You want respect but you aren't willing to give any. You seem to have a vendetta against transvestites. To get respect you must give others respect.

[CreativeMind]

Originally Posted by ila

You want respect but you aren't willing to give any. You seem to have a vendetta against transvestites. To get respect you must give others respect.

Well, I don't mean to put words into anyone's mouth, but in defense of Limegirl -- and she can correct me if I'm wrong here -- but based on her series of posts, what she seems to be saying is somewhat similar to thoughts that Bionca has long argued in her postings as well.

Namely, there's a big difference between being taken seriously as a transgender and being treated as a real person (with real feelings and being shown real respect) versus acting as a pure sex object or being seen as a pure fantasy object by guys who just want a one-time thrill, after which they will toss you aside. Or as Bionca has often lamented, won't even sit with you for coffee for fear of being seen with you. Which is just the most insane thing, since no matter what people are still people underneath it all, so there should be some accountability for treating a fellow human being with respect.

But again, in her defense, Limegirl usually points out that she's talking about hookers visibly strutting their stuff in the street or those TS who are overtly playing up their sexuality (by working sex sites and such) versus those transgenders who are genuinely trying to find a workable daily life, and who are hoping to find acceptance for who they really are inside as a person.

But hey, that's just the way I've read the posts. Then again, that's what I think makes this site and these message boards worthwhile because rather than everyone just talking about sex, sex, sex, you can find people here who are genuinely trying to express themselves or even find themselves and make new friends. So, if someone says something or phrases something a bit awkward from time to time, I think it's okay to just politely ask "Did you mean this or did you actually mean that" to try and clarify things.

[Limegirl]

Originally Posted by CreativeMind

Well, I don't mean to put words into anyone's mouth, but in defense of Limegirl -- and she can correct me if I'm wrong here -- but based on her series of posts, what she seems to be saying is somewhat similar to thoughts that Bionca has long argued in her postings as well.

Namely, there's a big difference between being taken seriously as a transgender and being treated as a real person (with real feelings and being shown real respect) versus acting as a pure sex object or being seen as a pure fantasy object by guys who just want a one-time thrill, after which they will toss you aside. Or as Bionca has often lamented, won't even sit with you for coffee for fear of being seen with you. Which is just the most insane thing, since no matter what people are still people underneath it all, so there should be some accountability for treating a fellow human being with respect.

But again, in her defense, Limegirl usually points out that she's talking about hookers visibly strutting their stuff in the street or those TS who are overtly playing up their sexuality (by working sex sites and such) versus those transgenders who are genuinely trying to find a workable daily life, and who are hoping to find acceptance for who they really are inside as a person.

Well, thanks CreativeMind for your informative post, you litterary took the words out of my mouth, I couldn´t say it better myself, you put your finger exactly on the spot

[ila]

Originally Posted by CreativeMind

So, if someone says something or phrases something a bit awkward from time to time, I think it's okay to just politely ask "Did you mean this or did you actually mean that" to try and clarify things.

You mean like you always do for my posts. Oh that's right, you don't ask for clarification you just jump right in and make statements and assumptions without asking if that's what I mean or asking for a clarification.

[CreativeMind]

Originally Posted by ila

You mean like you always do for my posts. Oh that's right, you don't ask for clarification you just jump right in and make statements and assumptions without asking if that's what I mean or asking for a clarification.

Gee, someone's feeling a bit sensitive today. Like I "ALWAYS DO" for your posts, Ila? Maybe my memory's a bit fuzzy here having just woken up, but I don't recall opposing your viewpoints all that much or that consistently -- as if I literally go out of my way to stake an opposing position from you on things. If you feel that way, then I'm sorry if I somehow slighted you since that was never the intent. In fact, I think my last post (the one you are responding to) was pretty darn diplomatic. On the other hand, I'll also stake my own ground and say this: I can't think of a single post I've every put up on these message boards that I can't defend for being my actual viewpoint or for it simply being a playful post that was aimed at someone I've become friends with off-site. And I'm sure those people know who they are, which is why I can make a joke and they'll take it with a smile and laugh.

But going back to the debate at hand, again, I stand by what I said -- Limegirl's posts, much like Bionca has intelligently and passionately written about, stresses her feelings for wanting to be accepted for "who" she is and not for how she dresses or acts as a sexual object. I think that's pretty damn straightforward wish that ANYONE would have, namely to be accepted for the person you are. So, again, I don't think Limegirl has anything against the transgender community -- hell, she's part of it herself. And I don't think she has a bias against stransvestite or cross-dressers if they're doing things to express and be accepted for their true feminine self.

But again -- and I'll say this again, too -- there's CLEARLY a difference between those who are dealing with honest emotions and looking for honest acceptance and respect from the world at large for "who" they are as opposed to someone who is using their sexuality to make a quick buck, or worse who feels so bad or withdrawn or self-conscious (or whatever Freudian term you want to apply) about their sexuality that it then affects their own sense of self-worth. At which point they fall into a sadder sex-worker lifestyle, which I think most rational people would NOT like to see other people being forced into.

And I do mean FORCED since we're talking about a certain community that often has to resort to the sex trade to either make money or get by or to simply exist. And who in their right mind would wish that life on anyone? So, in the end, I simply spoke up because I thought THAT was what Limegirl was trying to say, especially given the fact that it's pretty clear from her posts that Limegirl's English isn't quite perfect. But her actual feelings seemed to ring through pretty clearly to me. She's a TS dealing with so many of the things that most of us can't even begin to comprehend. So, again, I salute both her and Bionca for the posts they've written where they're at least TRYING to explain what they have to go through or what they are feeling or what they have to deal with on a daily basis to be accepted for who they are.

But I wasn't looking to fight with you, Ila -- I was just tossing a little support Limegirl's way since I thought I understood what she was TRYING to say.

[ila]

Originally Posted by ila

You want respect but you aren't willing to give any. You seem to have a vendetta against transvestites. To get respect you must give others respect.

Originally Posted by CreativeMind

so there should be some accountability for treating a fellow human being with respect.

But again, in her defense, Limegirl usually points out that she's talking about hookers visibly strutting their stuff in the street or those TS who are overtly playing up their sexuality (by working sex sites and such) versus those transgenders who are genuinely trying to find a workable daily life, and who are hoping to find acceptance for who they really are inside as a person.

Originally Posted by Limegirl

Well, thanks CreativeMind for your informative post, you litterary took the words out of my mouth, I couldn´t say it better myself, you put your finger exactly on the spot

You are both missing my point. I have simply said that if one wants respect one must also give respect. Giving respect means that one should respect the way others dress and act even if it is different than what one likes. I respect the fact that Limegirl wants to be treated as a woman. If I ever met her I would treat as her as a woman. It is not fair however, to denigrate other people who want to be crossdressers, or who work in the sex trade, or who apply their makeup in a different manner. I'm sure all these people would also like to be respected for who they are.

[CreativeMind]

Originally Posted by ila

You are both missing my point. I have simply said that if one wants respect one must also give respect. Giving respect means that one should respect the way others dress and act even if it is different than what one likes. I respect the fact that Limegirl wants to be treated as a woman. If I ever met her I would treat as her as a woman. It is not fair however, to denigrate other people who want to be crossdressers, or who work in the sex trade, or who apply their makeup in a different manner. I'm sure all these people would also like to be respected for who they are.

Actually, Ila, I'm not missing your point at all.
But I don't agree with all of it.

Do I think people should be given respect for "who" they are? In general, I would say yes. On a basic level, we are all human beings and that acts as a starting point. So, I would agree that if someone acts a bit different or dresses a bit different than me, that's fine -- that's the diversity of life. Some people like to hold hands in public, some don't. Some people like to sit at the front of a movie theater, some in the back. Some people like orchestral music, others like rap. Hey, to each their own.

But I'm going to harp on a notion I brought up above. There's a BIG difference between dressing a bit different or having certain personality quirks (and being accepted for those things) and being someone who works hard each day, who is trying to be themselves, who is looking for acceptance by the world at large...

...Versus those who have fallen into a lifestyle that society, as a whole, isn't so quick to embrace.

Case in point, look at what you just said: "I respect the fact that Limegirl wants to be treated as a woman. If I ever met her I would treat as her as a woman. It is not fair however, to denigrate other people who want to be crossdressers, or who work in the sex trade, or who apply their makeup in a different manner."

Okay, let's go over that list. Respect Limegirl for her feelings and treat her as a woman? Check. Don't denigrate cross-dressers and let them be who they are? Check. Don't denigrate those who apply their makeup in a different manner? No prob, check again. It's not fair to denigrate those who work in the sex trade--

Huh? Wait a minute. How did THAT get tossed in the pile? And I love how you put it right smack in the middle of things you were rattling off. You know, you have a great career ahead of you in politics. That's the textbook way of slipping one past the voters, where a politician runs on and on detailing a long list of things you're in favor of, but then suddenly your ear catches something and you say to yourself, "Wait, did he just say what I think he said?" But by the time you caught it, he's already moved on to other things, so you forget about it, too.

Look, that's a WHOLE OTHER topic to discuss -- namely, how each and every one of us feels about the sex trade and sex workers. That's a WHOLE other topic for debate about whether you think the sex trade should be legit or not, and certainly if you feel "sex workers" are deserving of full respect. I mean, just off the top of my head, I'd say that's a "yes" AND a "no" question. If someone HAD to resort to being a sex worker to get by...they HAD to do something to find some way, any way, to have shelter that night or to put some food into their stomach, I don't know if they'd have my respect, but they'd certainly have my sympathy and compassion and pity. Again, because I don't think anyone should HAVE to be a sex worker to survive. That's about as dark a side of humanity as you can get.

Now on the other hand, if someone CHOOSES to be a sex worker -- if they feel they can make a shitload of money by dressing sexy and flaunting their sexual status and they're just in it for the cash...gee, sorry, but that one's not really gonna get my respect. I'm not really looking to give the Blue Ribbon Seal of Approval to sex workers today. But again, that's a whole other topic on the sex trade as a whole -- so if you want to go down THAT road, fine. We can now have THAT debate as well. But right now it seems...to me at least...that you're suddenly mixing apples and oranges in a debate about "personal respect."

[Bionca]

Interesting turn this has taken. I want to go on record saying I support my sisters 100%. My sisters include natal and trans women, Drag Queens, guys who get a sexy "kick" out of wearing their wive's undies, guys who cross-fress to express their "feminine side" and the whole variety of people who fall somewhere in that mix, but not so neatly. We, all of us, get the same shit for the same reasons. They are my sisters.

In my personal opinion, sex-work is one of many valid ways to make a living. Social opinions make that option more dangerous than it should be. I actually have more respect for a tranny escort who is open about her status and her life than I am with a deep-stealth post-op lawyer who wouldn't breath a word of her past to ANYONE.

My issue with the sex indusrty is that it is often the only option available to trans*women (particularly women of color) to make a living. The flip-side of that is it is also often people's only window into what my life may be like. The images from "Shemale Gangbang 12" become projected on me. So, "forced" or "choice" the decision to work in the sex industry isn't an issue for me. It is the way that industry is used by men to frame the lives and sexual desires of ALL Trans*women is.