I give up

[Ogryn1313]

I couldn't agree more with you.

Aside from only one thing:

Obama.

I'm of the opinion social change must come slowly. It cannot be rushed because of loose ends and the impact it has on people. America is an extremely diverse nation. We have every type of person imaginable and ever difference imaginable found here. Perhaps more so than most nations. And it is always a battle. I believe in serving the whole, the greater good, thus the majority rules. Minorities are a secondary consideration. This does not mean I support oppressing them or denying them their fair treatment and rights. Only that any sweeping change in our society should be carefully thought out, all options and ramifications considered and then eased into. Rapid and sudden change creates unforeseen issues.

And this is my problem with the far left and Obama's of the world.

The Europeans can sit and smugly condemn my nation for being backwards and less socially progressive. Europeans are exceptionally arrogant. Yet they forget something important:

European nations are older than America. They have had the benefit of several hundred years of time to "perfect" themselves. America is a baby in comparison.

Because I believe such change requires time, logically it stands to reason America has not had the time to "perfect" itself as Europe. It's relative to how old a nation is. And the problem with the champions of this kind of change in America are immature so to speak. They often just see a problem and immediately think up a solution then they want to make this solution happen. They don't care if it steps on other groups or has effects on the equality of all in terms of rights and civil liberties. They are rash and foolhardy.

Perhaps they're hearts on in the right place. But they need to slow down and consider everything. I'll cite Obama wanting to withdraw the troops in Iraq quickly. He has failed to show he has fully thought out all considerations and possible consequences. Liberals are slightly better at this kind of change as they tend to be more logical and fair than the far left who pretty much are hot headed, overly passionate dreamers who just rush into things.

So, if you can look at a European nation and American nation in terms of a whole (let's say for the sake of it all of the nation is one person) and compare age and experience, then clearly America needs to do some growing up. But we all know the dangers of growing up too quickly.

This is how I disagree with you. Everything else you said I agree with entirely.

[hankhavelock]

Originally Posted by Ogryn1313

I couldn't agree more with you.

Aside from only one thing:

Obama...

Ogryn, I copied your reply to the Barack Obama thread and replied there if you dont mind!

H

[DL_NL]

Dating sucks, that's very true.

Still, don't give up!

[Ogryn1313]

Originally Posted by hankhavelock

Ogryn, I copied your reply to the Barack Obama thread and replied there if you dont mind!

H

I don't mind. I realized that I went off topic.

[Bionca]

I forget sometimes that is can be hard for guys to take the step from fantasy to reality with Trans*women. Perhaps that's why the LB scene is so popular with American and European tourists. Thailand is a place where it is more or less culturally "ok" to be with an LB. Although I read about a "walk of shame" when going from an LB bar to a hotel on sites devoted to Thai LadyBoys. I guess for some guys no amount of social acceptance or distance from the opinions of friends and family will be enough.

I forget that it can be hard for guys mostly because I went through it a long time ago. It was a matter of life and death for me, not a matter of getting a deep dark sexual desire explored. I lived through people reading me on the street, on the bus, at work when I first started. I got called everything, had my motivations questioned, my physical safety violated, insulted, harassed into changing addresses. Having passed through that, having distance and experience I suppose makes me sometimes blind to the flip side.

This doesn't let guys off the hook though. Not to get grumpy (I'm actually in a pretty swell mood today) but really, guys who date Trans*women don't really have much in the way of issues (compared to the TGs). I don't want to minimize the guy end of things, it's hard. I understand - Ive been through it (kinda). I just don't get the understanding comming the other direction very often. It's one thing to say "Yeah, it's hard to be a shemale" it's quite another to be on the bus going to work and have 5 guys in the back chanting "Tran-NEE, Tran-NEE, Tran-NEE" the whole ride.

Just a little observation. I do, however, want to encourage discussion of the issues guys face when dating or trying to date a Trans*Woman. Any and all information will ultimately help me and gals like me, as well as help other guys who are trying to find a TG.

[troymcclure]

Hey - dates can suck really bad for guys just going out with GG's as well...

Still nothing's worked out longterm, but I have to say of my last three relationships that amounted to anything, 2 of them were with TG...

[Bionca]

I know dates stink on ice for everyone. It just seems that most stuff is a little more complicated for TGs.

[troymcclure]

Originally Posted by Bionca

I know dates stink on ice for everyone. It just seems that most stuff is a little more complicated for TGs.

Yeah, no disagreement there...

[hankhavelock]

Originally Posted by Bionca

I know dates stink on ice for everyone. It just seems that most stuff is a little more complicated for TGs.

It certainly is, Bionce, like most things unfairly seem to be.

I don't know why, but I actually cannot remember one single stinking date in my life. Surely, some might just turn out as a kinda cosy rendevous, but I think I have never really felt that I neither wasted my time (completely) nor went home without something of substance.

I realize that the painful situations that these weird guys have obviously put you in is not at all unique to you - and yes, ladyboys never TRULY expect to be treated decently. Well, they dream of it and may demand it, but most have a little bit of doubt always. "Is it yet another ass hole?" she may be thinking while yet spending maybe hours in front of the mirror making herself as wonderful and radiant as she possibly can.

When ever I arrange a date (or she does), you can be sure that I will be called and smsed several times during the day where she is merely making sure that I don't intend to chicken out on her. "Ok, I make up now, honey, ya? Don't be late picking me, ya?"

I find it both troublesome and totally endearing. I mean, how can you NOT fall completely and deeply for such kind of devotion? I sure as shit can't...

And when she meets you, with her beautiful smile, her anticipation, her loveliness, her full transsexual power, beauty and wonderfulness... OMG... then I just fall in love right there on the spot... and then I'm indeed the luckiest man in the whole world! And that is completely the same whether she is a "nice" woman with a "nice" civil occupation, or if she is a little darling that I may pay "taxi-money" for her wonderful company. There is no difference.

It's a privilege to be liked, sometimes adored, sometimes even loved by God's finest!

Respect the ladies!

H

[bobbsie]

Don't give up entirely Bionca, but i would defiantly just focus on yourself for a while. However ultimately we are social creatures, we want to be in fulfilling relationships and share our lives with others! However the pursuit of love can make one very miserable too. Very, very miserable.. lol! Sometimes you just need a break or you will become jaded.

To be honest I don't entirely understand why you have been treated so poorly.. Although could you be any more out of the main stream? Sci-fi fan and social worker??! :o) On the periphery much? On a serious note, I'm surprised you haven't meet someone while studying social work or networking in the field. Social workers are generally a pretty undiscriminating, straightforward and liberal bunch of people often, with like minded friends. Have you asked if someone can introduce you to a nice guy?

[Bionca]

Originally Posted by bobbsie

Don't give up entirely Bionca, but i would defiantly just focus on yourself for a while. However ultimately we are social creatures, we want to be in fulfilling relationships and share our lives with others! However the pursuit of love can make one very miserable too. Very, very miserable.. lol! Sometimes you just need a break or you will become jaded.

To be honest I don't entirely understand why you have been treated so poorly.. Although could you be any more out of the main stream? Sci-fi fan and social worker??! :o) On the periphery much? On a serious note, I'm surprised you haven't meet someone while studying social work or networking in the field. Social workers are generally a pretty undiscriminating, straightforward and liberal bunch of people often, with like minded friends. Have you asked if someone can introduce you to a nice guy?

Well, I was in a relationship all through college and after graduation for a couple years (7 total). So I wasn't networking in that way when I was hanging out with social workers. I'm also not currently working in that field. I learned a long long time ago to never ever let my friends introduce to to someone or fix me up. They are profoundly bad at it. Honestly, I think the jaded is already happening, I think I know now why so many Transwomen in online chats/dating sites are so harsh with the guys.

Guys will promise the sun the moon and the stars to get in my panties. All I expect is some respect and dinner. I figure celestal gifts can come later. It amazes me how often guys fail to get over step #1. So many fail at step #1, I don't even think there isa step #2. Pretty pathetic really that a guy is special and a quality guy just for not chickening out on your first date and takes you out in public...

may have something to do with why Transwomen are 12x more likely to be killed or beaten by an intimate partner than genetic women.

[bobbsie]

I'm the first to admit the male species is a suspect creature at times, ok a significant amount of the time, but there are good guys out there. I still think it is about finding people with shared values. Maybe join a social action group or something? Worse case scenario you meet some nice people! :o) Although i can't talk, i keep meaning to do something like that, but uni seems to eat up a lot of my spare time. Excuses, excuses! Yeah, i am a hypocrite..

Meanwhile cats are great, that is when they're not demanding food, bringing home dead mice, meowing, scratching up the furniture, demanding food.. hmm.. have you thought about a dog?

12 times more likely?! That is scary when you think how high the family violence rates are in general

[Percival]

Hi Bionca,
In light of all the flattering and encouraging replies you've received I can only corroborate with them all. I only wish you lived a little closer than Australia, is it? Unfortunately it seems to me that I'm trying to crack this code myself. So far, every TGirl I've met (and I AM new to this) is professionally oriented, which I understand entirely. We are many of us professionals in various fields, we have something special and want to be paid for it. I hope that there are other girls like yourself out there. Of course, in both our cases, there's nothing to be accomplished by giving up. All the best.

[bobbsie]

Hey there, I think Bionca is actually in the US. If she was in Australia i'd be knocking her door down ;o) Where do you live?

[Bionca]

Given my deep attraction to Aussie blokes, if I lived in OZ I think I would be in some sort of constant erotic coma and unable to type, move, or really do much more than blink and drool.

I live in the middle of Ohio in the US. Recently moved back after a rather nasty break up with my long-term guy.

As far as the cats comment, it's really a comment on living alone. The proverbial "crazy cat-lady". I actually prefer dogs - you get the feeding and the dead mice (and assorted critters); but also get kisses and someone happy to see you.

Also, you guys are a riot. Everyone who has commented has at least made me smile.