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  #1  
Old 04-11-2011
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Originally Posted by randolph View Post
,,,,,,,,,,, Republicans and Democrats alike are threatening our way of life,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, [/COLOR]
Gosh! you include both? Are we making progress here? I didn't ever think I see you print that. Now, how can we get those in power to understand that THEY are the problem?
I wonder how many politicians read this forum for it's POLITICAL content?
(No doubt some come here for ,,,,research. )
I think if I wanted to make a serious political statement I'd be on a political forum.
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Old 04-11-2011
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Fran, keep out of politics. These guys don't "get your drift".
They certainly don't like getting burned by the fiesty bitch.
Do what you do best. Now if you want to tease them 'til they play with themselves, get into another thread/s,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and maybe out of yours?
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Old 04-11-2011
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Fran, keep out of politics. These guys don't "get your drift".
They certainly don't like getting burned by the fiesty bitch.
Do what you do best. Now if you want to tease them 'til they play with themselves, get into another thread/s,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and maybe out of yours?
Hey, being flamed by Fran is what keeps things interesting around here.
What's the name of that song "Baby it hurts so good"?
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Old 04-11-2011
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Posted on a political forum.

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Your political orientation says more about you than about the state of society. Your political orientation does not correlate with your intelligence - your ability to analyze and solve problems, it has to do with your values, and values are not rational. Evolution produced liberals and conservatives, which means each have a claim to the validity of their values. If not, evolution would have gotten rid of them. Every ideology has a dark side and a light side. Liberals and socialists are dead on when they attack robber barons and anybody else who amasses wealth by organized theft. But at some point, they become parasitic on people who earn their wealth honestly, because they cannot take the ideological blinders off. Conservatives are dead on when they perceive and respond to external threats and protect the property of people who earn their wealth honestly, but at some point they try to create a permanent hereditary wealthy class, because they cannot take the ideological blinders off. Does any one try, really try, to understand their political opponents? Rarely. Its so much more comforting to call them idiots, or sadists, or masochists, or the embodiment of evil. Its too scary to try to really understand your political opponents - it feels too much like agreeing with them. Anyone who does not wish to trancend the blinders of their own ideology is just another dog howling at the moon, like the original poster. Trancending your own ideology is not the same as discarding your ideology, or adopting that of your opponent. It just makes you sound like less of a fool.
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Old 04-11-2011
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Originally Posted by randolph View Post
Posted on a political forum.
"Evolution produced liberals and conservatives ..."

What a steaming crock of shit!
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Old 04-11-2011
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rarely does a political forum or discussion bring extreem laughter but that did.

SMC, I couldn't agree more. and so simply said.
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Old 04-11-2011
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Originally Posted by smc View Post
"Evolution produced liberals and conservatives ..."

What a steaming crock of shit!
Have you ever tried to reason with someone who politically disagrees with you? I have spent days arguing with a Libertarian to no avail. And the Ayn Rand bunch are like religious fanatics locked into their internal paradigms.
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Old 04-11-2011
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Originally Posted by randolph View Post
Have you ever tried to reason with someone who politically disagrees with you? I have spent days arguing with a Libertarian to no avail. And the Ayn Rand bunch are like religious fanatics locked into their internal paradigms.
I've always fancied calling such religious/authoritarian strains, "insulated." Nothing gets in.

Last edited by Enoch Root; 04-11-2011 at 12:23 PM.
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Old 04-11-2011
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Have you ever tried to reason with someone who politically disagrees with you? I have spent days arguing with a Libertarian to no avail. And the Ayn Rand bunch are like religious fanatics locked into their internal paradigms.
Of course, I have. I do so every day. Remember, I teach at a university, where open discourse is a regular part of each day. And, notably, where the kind of arguing that is practiced by some members of this Forum, in this thread, would quickly get someone put on academic probation -- not for the positions taken, but the manner in which the discussion is carried out.
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Old 04-14-2011
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Originally Posted by randolph View Post
And the Ayn Rand bunch are like religious fanatics locked into their internal paradigms.
They are atheists, yet paradoxically, you are correct. I tried to argue with some of them that free will is an illusion using scientific observations. They pride themselves on being rational, so they should have considered the scientific evidence. Yet they also pride themselves on having free will. They couldn't get beyond the assertion that they have free will because well... they just do. Even though they acknowledged everything else non-living in the universe does not have free will. So evidently these atheists believed there was something supernatural going in within our brains.
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Old 04-11-2011
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Originally Posted by smc View Post
"Evolution produced liberals and conservatives ..."

What a steaming crock of shit!
More evidence that its not a "steaming crock of shit"

Political Orientations Are Correlated with Brain Structure in Young Adults


Ryota Kanai1, , , Tom Feilden2, Colin Firth2 and Geraint Rees1, 3
1 University College London Institute of Cognitive Neuroscience, 17 Queen Square, London WC1N 3AR, UK
2 BBC Radio 4, Television Centre, Wood Lane, London W12 7RJ, UK
3 Wellcome Trust Centre for Neuroimaging, University College London, 12 Queen Square, London WC1N 3BG, UK


Received 11 January 2011;
revised 10 February 2011;
accepted 4 March 2011.
Published online: April 7, 2011.
Available online 7 April 2011.

Summary

Substantial differences exist in the cognitive styles of liberals and conservatives on psychological measures [1]. Variability in political attitudes reflects genetic influences and their interaction with environmental factors [[2] and [3]]. Recent work has shown a correlation between liberalism and conflict-related activity measured by event-related potentials originating in the anterior cingulate cortex [4]. Here we show that this functional correlate of political attitudes has a counterpart in brain structure. In a large sample of young adults, we related self-reported political attitudes to gray matter volume using structural MRI. We found that greater liberalism was associated with increased gray matter volume in the anterior cingulate cortex, whereas greater conservatism was associated with increased volume of the right amygdala. These results were replicated in an independent sample of additional participants. Our findings extend previous observations that political attitudes reflect differences in self-regulatory conflict monitoring [4] and recognition of emotional faces [5] by showing that such attitudes are reflected in human brain structure. Although our data do not determine whether these regions play a causal role in the formation of political attitudes, they converge with previous work [[4] and [6]] to suggest a possible link between brain structure and psychological mechanisms that mediate political attitudes.


Highlights

► Political liberalism and conservatism were correlated with brain structure ► Liberalism was associated with the gray matter volume of anterior cingulate cortex ► Conservatism was associated with increased right amygdala size ► Results offer possible accounts for cognitive styles of liberals and conservatives
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Old 04-11-2011
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Originally Posted by randolph View Post
Posted on a political forum.
More likely on the men's room wall at Berkley.
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  #13  
Old 04-11-2011
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Originally Posted by TeslaDante View Post
More likely on the men's room wall at Berkley.
... by someone who doesn't know what the word "evolution" means.
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  #14  
Old 04-14-2011
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Originally Posted by randolph View Post
Posted on a political forum.
Quote:
Your political orientation says more about you than about the state of society. Your political orientation does not correlate with your intelligence - your ability to analyze and solve problems, it has to do with your values, and values are not rational. Evolution produced liberals and conservatives, which means each have a claim to the validity of their values. If not, evolution would have gotten rid of them. Every ideology has a dark side and a light side. Liberals and socialists are dead on when they attack robber barons and anybody else who amasses wealth by organized theft. But at some point, they become parasitic on people who earn their wealth honestly, because they cannot take the ideological blinders off. Conservatives are dead on when they perceive and respond to external threats and protect the property of people who earn their wealth honestly, but at some point they try to create a permanent hereditary wealthy class, because they cannot take the ideological blinders off. Does any one try, really try, to understand their political opponents? Rarely. Its so much more comforting to call them idiots, or sadists, or masochists, or the embodiment of evil. Its too scary to try to really understand your political opponents - it feels too much like agreeing with them. Anyone who does not wish to trancend the blinders of their own ideology is just another dog howling at the moon, like the original poster. Trancending your own ideology is not the same as discarding your ideology, or adopting that of your opponent. It just makes you sound like less of a fool.
Ok, let's see if there are any empirical truths. Possibly this: It's never good practice to routinely run a deficit unless it's a national emergency."

No matter what your party, is this ever false?
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Old 04-14-2011
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Ok, let's see if there are any empirical truths. Possibly this: It's never good practice to routinely run a deficit unless it's a national emergency."

No matter what your party, is this ever false?
Attention all: this is a trap. Tracy Coxx wants you to believe that a national deficit, and borrowing, is the same as household debt and borrowing. In fact, the differences are profound.

Oh, and just to preempt it, Tracy Coxx will likely write: "Where did I write that?"
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Old 04-15-2011
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Ok, let's see if there are any empirical truths. Possibly this: It's never good practice to routinely run a deficit unless it's a national emergency."

No matter what your party, is this ever false?
The TLB staff can place words in my mouth and change the meaning of what I wrote, then state the obvious that I would say didn't say it. It is obvious so I won't.

So anyway, is the statement above in quotes an empirical statement, or does it depend on one's point of view? If it does depend on a viewpoint, can someone please explain what viewpoint, and within that viewpoint how it's rational to continuously operate in a deficit?
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Old 04-15-2011
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Originally Posted by TracyCoxx View Post
The TLB staff can place words in my mouth and change the meaning of what I wrote, then state the obvious that I would say didn't say it. It is obvious so I won't.

So anyway, is the statement above in quotes an empirical statement, or does it depend on one's point of view? If it does depend on a viewpoint, can someone please explain what viewpoint, and within that viewpoint how it's rational to continuously operate in a deficit?
Well, I agree, the government deficit is different from private debt for one simple reason, the government can print money! By printing money the government inflates the value of the money and thus reduces the actual debt. The government can get away with this for extended periods of time as long as the inflation does not become excessive (ie late 1970s). By printing money and borrowing more money the government can provide the populace with the services it desires and conduct the wars it desires.
Sooner or later there is a day of reckoning and the government either has to cut expenses or raise taxes or both. The Clinton administration succeeded in balancing the budget and the deficit could have been reduced to reasonable levels. Then Bush came along and went on a wild spending spree and irresponsible tax cuts, The deficit soared as the economy collapsed. Obama inherited a massive financial mess.
According to Keynsian theory, the way to recover from an economic downturn is for the government to spend lots of money, which is what Obama did. Did it work? Well, not very well because much of the money went into the stock market instead of into the economy.
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Old 04-15-2011
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Originally Posted by TracyCoxx View Post
The TLB staff can place words in my mouth and change the meaning of what I wrote, then state the obvious that I would say didn't say it. It is obvious so I won't.

So anyway, is the statement above in quotes an empirical statement, or does it depend on one's point of view? If it does depend on a viewpoint, can someone please explain what viewpoint, and within that viewpoint how it's rational to continuously operate in a deficit?
Were the United States never to incur debt as a nation except during a "national emergency," nearly everything -- including things Tracy Coxx probably would like to continue to have provided -- would disappear, unless:

a. "national emergency" were defined to include all those things
b. taxes were raised to their highest levels ever

Even the founders expected the United States to run a deficit. Read Alexander Hamilton. Countries operate this way; the argument that seeks to make it equivalent to continuing to use your personal credit care, whether that argument is stated explicitly or ghosted, is a diversion from the real discussion.

So, Tracy Coxx, as you've been asked before: Let's assume the United States ceases all deficit spending. List here what you're willing to see disappear. National defense? Federal highway maintenance? Air traffic control? What? Or will you list the teensy little ideological budget cuts like the Republicans in Congress like to pretend really make a difference in the overall level of spending?
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Old 04-19-2011
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Ok, let's see if there are any empirical truths. Possibly this: It's never good practice to routinely run a deficit unless it's a national emergency."

No matter what your party, is this ever false?
Ok, not seeing any objection to this (and we're talking non-emergency times here), does that imply that everyone here, libs, conservatives, libertarians, independants, etc, are for the balanced budget amendment? btw, the balanced budget amendment also has provisions for limited circumstances, such as during a time of war, where congress can waive the balanced budget requirement with a 3/5 majority. And given that both dems and repubs seem to have a very hard time with this, a balanced budget amendment seems to be required right?
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Old 04-19-2011
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Ok, not seeing any objection to this (and we're talking non-emergency times here), does that imply that everyone here, libs, conservatives, libertarians, independants, etc, are for the balanced budget amendment? btw, the balanced budget amendment also has provisions for limited circumstances, such as during a time of war, where congress can waive the balanced budget requirement with a 3/5 majority. And given that both dems and repubs seem to have a very hard time with this, a balanced budget amendment seems to be required right?
Tracy Coxx, your refusal to state what YOU would cut from the budget reveals that your position is one of political cowardice. Only here, where you don't have to face anyone, can you be asked a question in a political discussion, over and over, and simply ignore it.
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Old 04-19-2011
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Ok, not seeing any objection to this (and we're talking non-emergency times here), does that imply that everyone here, libs, conservatives, libertarians, independants, etc, are for the balanced budget amendment? btw, the balanced budget amendment also has provisions for limited circumstances, such as during a time of war, where congress can waive the balanced budget requirement with a 3/5 majority. And given that both dems and repubs seem to have a very hard time with this, a balanced budget amendment seems to be required right?

I believe most sain rashional people will aggree that a balanced budget is a most reguardless if they are to the left or the right or in the middle
But the idea of how to reach it is where everyone disagrees
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