Liberal free for all coming to an end

[The Conquistador]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Why shouldn't I appeal to emotion? I am not here blathering a la Glenn Beck. To remove compassion from any area of the human experience--and EVERYTHING is a part of the human experience--is a recipe for disaster.

The same reason why our country is founded upon the basis of a constitutional republic and not a democracy, or why we have our legal system set up so that you are judged by a panel of your peers rather than being judged by the family or friends of whoever may have been wronged.

Emotion clouds judgement and when you react to situation based on emotion, you tend to overlook certain important elements that would have been noticed and properly addressed with cold, rational thought. People are alot more easily manipulated when in an emotional state rather than when they are able to think clearly. If you were able to avenge every percieved wrong brought against you versus any actual wrong, you would not know truth from lie.

Distancing yourself from a problem, being able to get all the facts first and making an informed decision as opposed flying off the bat at every problem that evoked an emotional response is actually adding the "human element", as you put it, to a problem. Animals make decisions based on their emotions and can go from Ahab to Arab in the blink of an eye. They do not have the governer in place that allows them the faculties for rational thought. "Homo Sapien", it means "Smart Man." We are smart creatures. Our ability for rational thought and looking at a problem objectively is what makes us greater than animals, so if anything, adding emotion to our decisions is adding an "animalistic element" which has proven itself time and time again to be a recipie for disaster and does not allow for advancement as a people.

That is why problems that have such huge gravity (like laws and programs or decisions of life and death over people) that affect a multitude of people must not be taken lightly and must be scrutinized to the smallest detail, rather than based off of an emotional response.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by TheAngryPostman

The same reason why our country is founded upon the basis of a constitutional republic and not a democracy, or why we have our legal system set up so that you are judged by a panel of your peers rather than being judged by the family or friends of whoever may have been wronged.

Emotion clouds judgement and when you react to situation based on emotion, you tend to overlook certain important elements that would have been noticed and properly addressed with cold, rational thought. People are alot more easily manipulated when in an emotional state rather than when they are able to think clearly. If you were able to avenge every percieved wrong brought against you versus any actual wrong, you would not know truth from lie.

Distancing yourself from a problem, being able to get all the facts first and making an informed decision as opposed flying off the bat at every problem that evoked an emotional response is actually adding the "human element", as you put it, to a problem. Animals make decisions based on their emotions and can go from Ahab to Arab in the blink of an eye. They do not have the governer in place that allows them the faculties for rational thought. "Homo Sapien", it means "Smart Man." We are smart creatures. Our ability for rational thought and looking at a problem objectively is what makes us greater than animals, so if anything, adding emotion to our decisions is adding an "animalistic element" which has proven itself time and time again to be a recipie for disaster and does not allow for advancement as a people.

That is why problems that have such huge gravity (like laws and programs or decisions of life and death over people) that affect a multitude of people must not be taken lightly and must be scrutinized to the smallest detail, rather than based off of an emotional response.

We are a society of people, not robots. And I am speaking of positive emotions, not something like murder or other instances of injury.

You draw a false line between the human and the animal. It is one and the same. Love and compassion are just as necessary and good, if not greater, than "objective thought." Love is not the greater of sex. "I believe a leaf is no less than the journey-work of the stars." Do you understand? What is the point of banding together as a species and creating policy, if not to make our lives better? To desire my family or friends or neighbors to be hale and hearty is utterly reasonable and utterly human. That everyone is manipulated by the insurance companies and that this is an injustice is no imagined wrong.

I have never understood the continued disregard and devaluing of the emotions amongst you Americans. You bristle at that which is good, you bristle at the senses and at passion. It is Puritanical and outdated and should have died with the Mayflower. This is all the more ironic given the nature of this forum. The only emotion, the only passion you are good at and respond to, is that which is associated with fear. Glenn Beck sounding the trumpet of the ride of the Horsemen.

The Trinity of reasoned discourse: logos, ethos, pathos. I will not apologize for appealing to the emotions. It is an honored element of discussion. Any argument that does not attempt to address all three (reasoning, credibility of the speaker, and emotion) is an incomplete argument.

[The Conquistador]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

We are a society of people, not robots. And I am speaking of positive emotions, not something like murder or other instances of injury.

You draw a false line between the human and the animal. It is one and the same. Love and compassion are just as necessary and good, if not greater, than "objective thought." Love is not the greater of sex. "I believe a leaf is no less than the journey-work of the stars." Do you understand? What is the point of banding together as a species and creating policy, if not to make our lives better? To desire my family or friends or neighbors to be hale and hearty is utterly reasonable and utterly human. That everyone is manipulated by the insurance companies and that this is an injustice is no imagined wrong.

I have never understood the continued disregard and devaluing of the emotions amongst you Americans. You bristle at that which is good, you bristle at the senses and at passion. It is Puritanical and outdated and should have died with the Mayflower. This is all the more ironic given the nature of this forum. The only emotion, the only passion you are good at and respond to, is that which is associated with fear. Glenn Beck sounding the trumpet of the ride of the Horsemen.

The Trinity of reasoned discourse: logos, ethos, pathos. I will not apologize for appealing to the emotions. It is an honored element of discussion. Any argument that does not attempt to address all three (reasoning, credibility of the speaker, and emotion) is an incomplete argument.

Rational thought is what has helped us to overcome many challenges instead of rushing headstrong into the problem. I am very well aware of my emotions and my need for human interaction but I do not de-value my emotions, I simply keep them in check. Your inability think above "People need healthcare because it is a right" does not look at the many facets of what the impact of such a program would have. You are thinking of the immediate, which while not a bad thing, does not take into account things like the current debt crisis that we have, long term viability, abuses of the system, overall cost on the people, bureaucratic red tape and numerous other problems that federally instituted programs are notorious for.

Saying that people need such a program is inherently arrogant and condescending. You are in effect saying that you know what people need more than the people themselves. If you truly claim to care about others, then why do you wish to take away their ability to choose what is best for them? What works for you may not work for them and blanket policies like that just do not work. People do not have to use insurance companies because there are other places to get medical care at other than the hospital.

There are places like US HealthWorks and other businessess that will do quality jobs for cheap and they tell you how much it will cost up front. I've had quality dental work and minor surgeries for about a 10th of the cost of what it would have cost with an insurance company.. I am perfectly happy with what I have and I don't need the federal gov. to take from me to fund crappier quality healthcare.

If people wish to be charitable, let them. Do not force them to be charitable by using the federal government to take money from them. Instituting programs like that only keep people from realizing the consequences of their haphazard ways. Getting rid of social safety nets will force people to be responsible and will help them realize the long term effects of their actions and help them plan accordingly.

And no, fear is not the only emotion I respond to. Like I said, I keep my emotions in check and I try to look at a problem objectively. That doesn't mean I am a cold hearted bastard; I do feel and I am aware of the impact my actions can have and act accordingly. I do love people as well, I am just not the type who wishes to impoverish the many for the benefit of the few. I feel that if you stop holding people by the hand and let them make decisions by themselves, people will for the most part make choices that have positive effects.