Barack Obama

[CreativeMind]

Originally Posted by randolph

Its really sad there is so much hate among conservatives. A little reason and compromise could go a long way toward solving many of our problems. If the hate mongers, Rush, et all would just go away so we could live in peace.

Originally Posted by jimnaseum

Not hate, Randy, FEAR.

Yeah, you guys are right.
No one on the Left could ever be accused of spreading hate and fear...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLjAahyKfp0

[CCC]

Originally Posted by CreativeMind

Yeah, you guys are right.
No one on the Left could ever be accused of spreading hate and fear...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLjAahyKfp0

What a jerk---does he think that is going to get him better ratings--I have more people listening to my radio show than him.

[Talvenada]

Originally Posted by CreativeMind

Yeah, you guys are right.
No one on the Left could ever be accused of spreading hate and fear...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLjAahyKfp0

JIM:

Translation: Unless you're perfect you cannot criticize the right, because they don't criticize--they ONLY disagree. You're not perfect if there is 1 thing to question, which means they can do a million things you think are wrong.

TAL

[ila]

^And apparently one cannot criticize the left without receiving a condescending snarky reply in return.

[franalexes]

No one is more intollerant of others than the left that claim to be tollerant.

[ila]

Originally Posted by franalexes

No one is more intollerant of others than the left that claim to be tollerant.

That is so true.

[randolph]

New Poll Results Are Proof That Republicans Don't Think


A poll commissioned by DailyKos shows just how far to the right the GOP has been dragged by its right wing...and how far out of step they are with the rest of America.
February 5, 2010 |




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A village cannot revise village life to suit the village idiot. -- Frank Schaeffer

On Tuesday, the Daily Kos published a new Research 2000 study showing the current state of belief in the GOP. Though the results aren't anything new -- indeed, the study just puts hard numbers to everything we already thought we knew about the right wing -- the data also show, in sharp detail, just how far to the right the GOP has been dragged by its right wing...and how far out of step they are with the rest of America as a result.
The data also show that Frank Schaeffer was more than fair in characterizing these people as America's "village idiots." For one thing, they really are a bitterly small minority. Last week, I laid out some numbers of my own, which showed that the conservative movement as it's currently constituted only represents the views of about 25 to 30 percent of Americans. (And, historically, that's about as big as conservative movements ever get in the US -- though it's plenty big enough to do some real damage.) Furthermore, according to a Washington Post/ABC News poll done last October, only about 20 percent of Americans currently identify as Republican, which is a 40-year low. There's nothing about our current GOP that can be supportably described as "mainstream."
Kos's pollsters did a valiant job of getting inside the heads of this 20 percent. But the story they tell also shows how severe the conservatives' level of derangement has become; and just how little introspection the conservatives have done to reckon with the causes and consequences of their own failures. And it also documents the vast chasm this willful refusal to deal with reality is creating between this noisy minority and the vast majority of Americans.
To grasp the size of the gap, you only have to compare Kos' numbers on conservative beliefs with the most current available stats on the attitudes of the country as a whole. So -- that's what I did below. This discussion doesn't address all of the the questions in Kos's summary, because good data wasn't available on some of them; but a look at most of the high points gives you an accurate picture of just how far out of the mainstream the GOP is pulling.
Should Barack Obama be impeached, or not?
Yes 39
No 32
Not Sure 29
Over a third of Republicans say Obama should be impeached. ("For what? Who the heck knows?" asks Kos. The beauty of being a village idiot is that you never have to explain yourself.) Nearly another third think it's an open question; only one-third say no.
But out in the Real America, Obama's Gallup approval ratings are well within the normal range for a one-year president. Since his TV appearances last week, they're up over 50% again -- and, as Rachel Maddow notes, the Omentum is rising.
Do you think Barack Obama is a socialist?
Yes 63
No 21
Not Sure 16
OK, fine. All faithful FOX watchers know that Obama is a socialist. But the problem for the village idiots is: it's increasingly true that socialism is a terrifying boogeyman that only they can see. For them, it's Mao and Stalin. For the rest of us, it's just another day of government-built roads and schools.
An April 2009 Rasmussen poll (and remember, Rasmussen's findings generally skew rightward) found that only 53% of Americans thought that capitalism was better than socialism. A full 20% though we could do with some more socialism around here; and 37% didn't have an opinion either way.
When nearly half the country no longer thinks that Socialism is Evil Incarnate, red-baiting just doesn't pack much of a political punch any more.
Do you believe Sarah Palin is more qualified to be President than Barack Obama?
Yes 53
No 14
Not Sure 33
For those of you thinking the "village idiot" metaphor is bit of hyperbole, consider for just a moment the sheer surreality of the idea that there could be any group, anywhere, in which half of everybody thinks that Sarah Palin would make a good president. Enough said?
But let's skip ahead to the facts. Which are these: A CBS News poll taken two weeks ago found that 71% of Americans do not want to Sarah Palin to run for president in 2012. Only 20% of us (apparently the same ones the Kos poll talked to) think this is a good idea.


Okay, I am not making personal comments on this thread, but I thought this article would be "educational".

[Talvenada]

Originally Posted by ila

^And apparently one cannot criticize the left without receiving a condescending snarky reply in return.

ILA:

Hopefully, your politics in Canada are more pleasant than ours here south of the border. Me, I'm a Mod Dem, who went from slightly left of center to left of center after 8 years of Bush-Cheney.

It's been my experience that the left is willing to compromise, hear another opinion, realistic criticism, and honest debate. That said, the right likes political debate, which breaks down everything to equal opinions. In other words, Obama is not an American is equal and opinion only to those of us who think he's an American.

Me, If Obama pulled some of the stunts Bush pulled, I'd bust on him myself. Right now, Obama has 5 or 6 questionable actions, but it's too soon to say if any will turn out to be Bush-like.

TAL

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by Talvenada

Me, If Obama pulled some of the stunts Bush pulled, I'd bust on him myself. Right now, Obama has 5 or 6 questionable actions, but it's too soon to say if any will turn out to be Bush-like.

TAL

What 5 or 6 actions do you consider questionable?

[ila]

Originally Posted by Talvenada

ILA:

Hopefully, your politics in Canada are more pleasant than ours here south of the border. Me, I'm a Mod Dem, who went from slightly left of center to left of center after 8 years of Bush-Cheney.

It's been my experience that the left is willing to compromise, hear another opinion, realistic criticism, and honest debate. That said, the right likes political debate, which breaks down everything to equal opinions. In other words, Obama is not an American is equal and opinion only to those of us who think he's an American.

Me, If Obama pulled some of the stunts Bush pulled, I'd bust on him myself. Right now, Obama has 5 or 6 questionable actions, but it's too soon to say if any will turn out to be Bush-like.

TAL

Politics here is just as bad with the left full of self righteous indignation at the right for doing the same things that the left did when they formed the government. The left leaning media doesn?t help the situation either because they continually criticize the right while neglecting to mention that the left did the same things, only more often.

Attack ads against opponents are all too common now. No politician ever discusses issues anymore. They are all like a bunch of children on one long temper tantrum. One group of politicians accuses a second group of lying who accuse a third group of lying who accuse the first group of lying.

There is no leadership in politics anymore. No one is in it for the good of the country and the people. They are all there to feed at the public trough, ensure that they and their buddies have a regular paycheck, and cause never ending headaches and problems for the citizens that they are supposed to serve (this is a bit of an exaggeration as some politicians are altruistic, just not enough are). This applies to all the parties and not any particular one.

[jimnaseum]

Originally Posted by ila

There is no leadership in politics anymore. No one is in it for the good of the country and the people. They are all there to feed at the public trough, ensure that they and their buddies have a regular paycheck, and cause never ending headaches and problems for the citizens that they are supposed to serve.

Would you say this applies to Barack Obama?

[CreativeMind]

Originally Posted by Talvenada

JIM: Translation: Unless you're perfect you cannot criticize the right, because they don't criticize--they ONLY disagree. You're not perfect if there is 1 thing to question, which means they can do a million things you think are wrong.

TAL

Tal, just for the record, all I was saying with my post -- or rather letting Keith Olbermann make my point for me -- is that broad blanket statements like Randolph made ("Its sad there is so much hate among conservatives. If the hate mongers, Rush, et all would just go away so we could live in peace") and that Jim made ("Not hate, Randy, FEAR") really hold no water when statements of EQUAL anger and fear mongoring are made on the Left TOO.

Look, do I think Rush often goes over the top? Absolutely.
Do I think a Sean Hannity or Glenn Beck can go over the top? I do.
There -- I'll admit it and put it on the record.

But at the same time that you are trying to get that concession out of me, you can't honestly expect me (or others) to just look the other way and ignore the bitterness coming from the Left as well. Otherwise we'd have the equivalent of you and me squaring off in a boxing ring, at which point you say, "I'd like us to have a fair match." And then as soon as I say "sure" and start to turn, to go to my corner, you quickly blurt out "But I'm allowed to get in a sucker punch first!" KA-POW!

I mean, come on -- fair is fair. If you or anyone else on the Left wants me (or others) to denounce over-the-top ravings of a Rush Limbaugh or whoever, then the Left has to likewise admit to (as I showed with my clip) that the frothing at the mouth ravings of people like Keith Olbermann or Rachel Maddow, etc, are EQUALLY nutty.

In fact, since we're on the topic of simply spreading hate or fear, allow me to present Liberal radio and TV host Ed Schultz on MSNBC just tonight, as he discusses Sarah Palin's speech at the Tea Party Convention with Bob Shrum, Democratic strategist and perpetual party hack, who decided NOT to discuss her speech on intellectual grounds, but chose instead to take a cheap personal shot at Palin by bitterly declaring: "She came across as a merchant of hate with an oh gosh smile." Wow, that's some real Ivy League intellectual analysis there, huh?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3pre0VgX5s


So, I'll repeat what I said before: Yeah, you guys are right.
No on on the Left could ever be accused of peddling hate or fear themselves.
(insert mocking eye roll here)

[Talvenada]

Originally Posted by CreativeMind

Tal, just for the record, all I was saying with my post -- or rather letting Keith Olbermann make my point for me -- is that broad blanket statements like Randolph made ("Its sad there is so much hate among conservatives. If the hate mongers, Rush, et all would just go away so we could live in peace") and that Jim made ("Not hate, Randy, FEAR") really hold no water when statements of EQUAL anger and fear mongoring are made on the Left TOO.

Look, do I think Rush often goes over the top? Absolutely.
Do I think a Sean Hannity or Glenn Beck can go over the top? I do.
There -- I'll admit it and put it on the record.

But at the same time that you are trying to get that concession out of me, you can't honestly expect me (or others) to just look the other way and ignore the bitterness coming from the Left as well. Otherwise we'd have the equivalent of you and me squaring off in a boxing ring, at which point you say, "I'd like us to have a fair match." And then as soon as I say "sure" and start to turn, to go to my corner, you quickly blurt out "But I'm allowed to get in a sucker punch first!" KA-POW!

I mean, come on -- fair is fair. If you or anyone else on the Left wants me (or others) to denounce over-the-top ravings of a Rush Limbaugh or whoever, then the Left has to likewise admit to (as I showed with my clip) that the frothing at the mouth ravings of people like Keith Olbermann or Rachel Maddow, etc, are EQUALLY nutty.

In fact, since we're on the topic of simply spreading hate or fear, allow me to present Liberal radio and TV host Ed Schultz on MSNBC just tonight, as he discusses Sarah Palin's speech at the Tea Party Convention with Bob Shrum, Democratic strategist and perpetual party hack, who decided NOT to discuss her speech on intellectual grounds, but chose instead to take a cheap personal shot at Palin by bitterly declaring: "She came across as a merchant of hate with an oh gosh smile." Wow, that's some real Ivy League intellectual analysis there, huh?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3pre0VgX5s


So, I'll repeat what I said before: Yeah, you guys are right.
No on on the Left could ever be accused of peddling hate or fear themselves.
(insert mocking eye roll here)

C-MIN:

Firstly, I'm in the middle with a view to the right and the left, and there is a big slant to the right in combativeness. Schultz is a far-left guy that I stopped watching after 6 weeks, but he is no match for Beck, Limbaugh, Hannity, and Levin. He's behind them in 5th place for over the top. Olbermann, Maddow and O'Reilly are behind the big 5. Mathews and Van Sustern are the fairest of the lot, and ALL on both sides are biased by nature, which shows in their wording.

Secondly, my interest in politics cannot be satisfied by honest debate, because that requires 2 sides to be honest. So, I look for weak arguments to feast on, because I'm offered no other choice. I find whose-side-are-you-on arguments to be offensive. It should be a debate of facts, and not a charlatan sporting event.

Thirdly, I wasn't trying to get you to admit something; I was pointing out an argument that stated the other side does it: equal.

Personally, I don't care who is in The WH from Conse 'Pub to Lib Dem, but just do the job. Granted, I'm more left of center than ever after 8 years of The Clinton-Ken Starr Admin., after 8 years of Bush-Cheney with 118 questionable actions, and after 1 year of daily attacks on Obama. Obama has gotten more in 1 year than Bush got in 8 years, and it's not just the pols. It's the right media, and citizens.

Example: Don't tell me we are threatened by a country that is militarily 60% of what it was 12 before, when its army couldn't surrender fast enough. That that is more of a priority than getting bin Laden, and you expect me to trust your judgement as president? That means whether you're Clinton, Bush or Obama, I don't want to hear what I can see thru. This is just me, which is why Palin is so unappealing to me.

As far as Obama's questionable actions, I'll name 8.

TRACY:

1. 50 Gitmo prisoners who'll be imprisoned for life without charge, and/or with tarnished evidence (waterboarding).

2. Wiretapping continues.

3. No Wall Street restrictions for a year.

4. Pushing for bi-partisanship with pols who opening brag they will negotiate in poor faith to slow down and stop legislation only.

5. Upping The Afgan War with more troops after 8 years.

6. The Iraq War not ending soon enough.

7. Not prosecuting war crimes above the legalized torture of Yoo

8. and below is very quiet.

1 is not having enough info to find a better action.
2 is not talked about to show a change has been made.
3 is now heading in the right direction, but it's way too early.
4 is what's wrong with politics, and I feel it may be more than a 1-person job for anybody.
5 might be the right choice, but need to know more of what's going on.
6 seems to be slow, but that could be just me.
7 might be the best option for the country, or not.
8 appears to be a little too quiet.


I only say 118 questionable Bush actions, some are no longer questionable, because none are prosecuted.

So, Conse 'Pubs, bring a crap argument and I'll bring a mop.

TAL

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by Talvenada

Personally, I don't care who is in The WH from Conse 'Pub to Lib Dem, but just do the job. Granted, I'm more left of center than ever after 8 years of The Clinton-Ken Starr Admin., after 8 years of Bush-Cheney with 118 questionable actions, and after 1 year of daily attacks on Obama. Obama has gotten more in 1 year than Bush got in 8 years, and it's not just the pols. It's the right media, and citizens.

There's no argument, the right-media is letting BO have it. But at the same time, BO does things that should prompt an objective journalist to ask probing follow up questions and the left-media just lets it go. Also, the administration wants to (sometimes demands to) preview questions whenever possible. That's not how it's supposed to work.

Originally Posted by Talvenada

This is just me, which is why Palin is so unappealing to me.

She's unappealing to me too. Politically that is. Other than that, she's kinda hot.

Originally Posted by Talvenada

As far as Obama's questionable actions, I'll name 8.

TRACY:

1. 50 Gitmo prisoners who'll be imprisoned for life without charge, and/or with tarnished evidence (waterboarding).

Originally Posted by Talvenada

2. Wiretapping continues.

This is a tough one. Presumably they only wiretap questionable people, and it has netted results. On the other hand, they could wiretap anyone. But do they? Who knows?

Originally Posted by Talvenada

3. No Wall Street restrictions for a year.

That's that free market thing.

Originally Posted by Talvenada

4. Pushing for bi-partisanship with pols who opening brag they will negotiate in poor faith to slow down and stop legislation only.

Polls show that the american people are against health care and out of control government spending. There is no one in congress with voting power to represent these people who are the majority. So republicans use the only tool they have which is to slow down or stop legislation.

Originally Posted by Talvenada

5. Upping The Afgan War with more troops after 8 years.

I'm not sure about this one because I've never heard from BO what our goal in Afghanistan is, or what his larger picture of the war on terror is, if any.

Originally Posted by Talvenada

6. The Iraq War not ending soon enough.

I'm fine with this war ending because we have for the most part won it.

Originally Posted by Talvenada

7. Not prosecuting war crimes above the legalized torture of Yoo

huh?

Originally Posted by Talvenada

8. and below is very quiet.

below what?

Originally Posted by Talvenada

I only say 118 questionable Bush actions, some are no longer questionable, because none are prosecuted.

From what I've seen there are multitudes of gripes attributed to Bush, when what's really going on isn't so black and white. And also things like Abu Ghraib being blamed on Bush when it was actually service men & women who committed those acts on their own.

And this summarizes my thoughts pretty well about the start of the Iraq war...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5p-qIq32m8

[Talvenada]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

There's no argument, the right-media is letting BO have it. But at the same time, BO does things that should prompt an objective journalist to ask probing follow up questions and the left-media just lets it go. Also, the administration wants to (sometimes demands to) preview questions whenever possible. That's not how it's supposed to work.
[/url]

These are ideological selections, and the MSM doesn't condemn Obama for not governing like Bush or a conservative, which is what the right does.

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

That's that free market thing.
[/url]

That free-market thing happened when they deregulated, and they got 1929 again. If there were no rules & regulations, greed would reign supreme. It's happened twice, and today gaming the system makes it even more necessary. Greed needs to be policed to the point of protecting those who can get screwed even if they do everything right.

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Polls show that the american people are against health care and out of control government spending. There is no one in congress with voting power to represent these people who are the majority. So republicans use the only tool they have which is to slow down or stop legislation.
[/url]

If it was only health care, it would look legit, but it's only yes on Bush's policies continued.

My point was that it has been made clear, that even if you give them everything they want, they'll vote no.

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

huh?
below what?
[/url]

Not prosecuting war crimes above (covered by) the legalized torture of John Yoo, and below (not covered by) is very quiet.

Waterboarding has been considered a war crime for years, except to Bush-Cheney.

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

From what I've seen there are multitudes of gripes attributed to Bush, when what's really going on isn't so black and white. And also things like Abu Ghraib being blamed on Bush when it was actually service men & women who committed those acts on their own.
[/url]

I use my own list, and Obama is on track for 64, compared to 118 for Bush. If half prove to be true, that would make 59 for Bush.

The Bush ones are a combo of Bush & Cheney, and there are none for Biden, yet.



TRACY:

My view of a questionable action is one where a poor selection was made. If a better choice was available at the time, it was a bad selection. If it turns out to be the best of bad choices, then it was a good selection.

These are not ideological-based actions, and do not favor either side. It does include actions that are or have a good chance of being known by the pres. or VP, and could have been stopped.

Of Bush's 118, some have proven on target; some are still open; but none have been validated, yet.


TAL

[sissygirl]

Obama is an idiot who has no concept of a free society. the only opinion he seeks is his own and is the most dishonest and deceitful president we have ever had. I for one am sick of his lies and his wasteful spending policies that are going to drive us into a debt we will be unable to pay. I pity our childern and what he is doing to our values