Barack Obama

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by randolph

So Tracy, as an intelligent person, how do you feel about the "tea party" rally in front of the capital?

The original Tea Party was to protest taxation without representation. There is so much political activity from the right and even from independents and some democrat voters (who didn't really know or care what "Hope and Change" meant) because like King George, this government is completely out of touch with American citizens.

There was the $1 trillion stimulus that wasn't even written, much less even read by our representatives. It was written by the Apollo Alliance.

Did you vote for the Apollo Alliance last November? I sure didn't, and I don't know of anyone who has. There will be an unprecedented tax from this bill. That would be a clear case of taxation without representation.

Also, there's the healthcare crap they want to pass. Congress was all set to pass this bill last summer. A bill that would be irreversible, that would fundamentally change many aspects of our lives, and most of them hadn't even read it! Thankfully many people in town hall meetings started demanding answers to their questions and got the politicians to start listening. That's what representatives should do is listen. Not come to us and tell us what we need. The fact is, the vast majority of Americans don't want nationalized health care, so Obama and the assholes in congress should do their job and drop it.

I'm hoping we can keep them from passing the bill until 2010 when the American citizens enact a health care program on congress and clean it out with an enema.

So, the main message of the Tea Party is that the government is out of control, and to remind them that America has government for the people, by the people. And I completely support their cause.

[randolph]

Our Mission

"The Apollo Alliance is a coalition of labor, business, environmental, and community leaders working to catalyze a clean energy revolution that will put millions of Americans to work in a new generation of high-quality, green-collar jobs. Inspired by the Apollo space program, we promote investments in energy efficiency, clean power, mass transit, next-generation vehicles, and emerging technology, as well as in education and training. Working together, we will reduce carbon emissions and oil imports, spur domestic job growth, and position America to thrive in the 21st century economy."
What's wrong with that?

The stimulus package was approved by Congress regardless of who "wrote" it. Therefore "we" approved it.
Your comments on the "Tea Party" are reasonable. We are all concerned with the massive spending.
What appalls me are the idiotic signs waved around by the mob. Signs calling Obama Hitler and Pelosi a Nazi are absurd. Further absurdity is calling him a socialist! Obama's stimulus package is designed to save capitalism, pure and simple. Capitalists are in full control of the stimulus funds. It seems to be working and the government is starting to get some of it back.

[ila]

Originally Posted by randolph

Our Mission

"The Apollo Alliance is a coalition of labor, business, environmental, and community leaders working to catalyze a clean energy revolution that will put millions of Americans to work in a new generation of high-quality, green-collar jobs. Inspired by the Apollo space program, we promote investments in energy efficiency, clean power, mass transit, next-generation vehicles, and emerging technology, as well as in education and training. Working together, we will reduce carbon emissions and oil imports, spur domestic job growth, and position America to thrive in the 21st century economy."

Is the Apollo Alliance trying to say that the Apollo space program "promoted investments in energy efficiency, clean power, mass transit, next-generation vehicles, and emerging technology, as well as in education and training." That's really amazing that a space program that was intended to put a man on the moon instead did all these other things.

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by randolph

Our Mission

"The Apollo Alliance is a coalition of labor, business, environmental, and community leaders working to catalyze a clean energy revolution that will put millions of Americans to work in a new generation of high-quality, green-collar jobs. Inspired by the Apollo space program, we promote investments in energy efficiency, clean power, mass transit, next-generation vehicles, and emerging technology, as well as in education and training. Working together, we will reduce carbon emissions and oil imports, spur domestic job growth, and position America to thrive in the 21st century economy."
What's wrong with that?

Well, as usual, when you look into these groups and people surrounding Obama, you come up with criminals (like what ACORN is riddled with), communists and progressives.

Jeff Jones - Co-creator of the Weather Underground with Bill Ayers. He was arrested in 1981 for his terrorist acts. Where do you go from there? Adviser to environmental groups, to labor organizations and to the New York state government where he sits on a commission for Governor Paterson of course.

He was also adviser to the Workforce Development Institute in New York, which is advising state and local governments and universities on how to write their grants to get stimulus funds from the stimulus bill that he and his friends at Apollo wrote. What does he do now? He's the head of the Apollo Alliance in NY, and he's also an adviser for the national Apollo Alliance as well.

There are several others, but it's a long boring list of commies and progressivists.

Originally Posted by randolph

The stimulus package was approved by Congress regardless of who "wrote" it. Therefore "we" approved it.

Well that's assuming the people we put in office do their jobs and read it. But they didn't. They weren't given time to, and many of them readily admitted they weren't going to read it because it was too long and they trusted Pelosi and BO to get it right.

Originally Posted by randolph

Your comments on the "Tea Party" are reasonable. We are all concerned with the massive spending.
What appalls me are the idiotic signs waved around by the mob. Signs calling Obama Hitler and Pelosi a Nazi are absurd.

Yeah, and stuff like this too:

Originally Posted by randolph

One example; Rush has demonized "liberals" as if they were a dire threat to the country.
Hitler demonized "Jews" as if they were a dire threat to the country.

Originally Posted by randolph

Further absurdity is calling him a socialist! Obama's stimulus package is designed to save capitalism, pure and simple.

He surrounds himself with not only socialists, but communists. He's had communist mentors when growing up. He lived in communist Indonesia. He forms a relationship with the radical-communist Bill Ayers. Many of his advisors are communists. He has or plans to put car companies, banks and even the health care system under government control. He's working out ways to take over the airwaves with something called "Localism", and there's a bill in the senate that would give BO the power to shut down the internet if he ever feels the itch to do so. Are you saying it's absurd to call him socialist because he's actually a communist?

Originally Posted by randolph

Capitalists are in full control of the stimulus funds. It seems to be working and the government is starting to get some of it back.

Capitalists like Jeff Jones and ACORN? LOL You made a funny. I noted a while back that the economy seemed to be recovering before the stimulus money had begun being spent - making the $trillion an unnecessary burden on tax payers while funding a bunch of radical left-wing types like ACORN.

[randolph]

"Capitalists like Jeff Jones and ACORN? LOL You made a funny. I noted a while back that the economy seemed to be recovering before the stimulus money had begun being spent - making the $trillion an unnecessary burden on tax payers while funding a bunch of radical left-wing types like ACORN."

OK, Acorn may be a piece of shit, but its not where the big money is going. It is going to bail the big financial institutions that run this capitalist country. That is not socialism by any stretch of the imagination. Also a lot of the money is in the form of an investment which hopefully will become a good capitalist investment. The highly discounted mortgage bonds are likely to recover value in the future.
You seem to be determined to label Obama a communist or at least a socialist based on some tenuous associations in the past. Many young people go through a "radical" period. What counts is what he is doing now and there is no question in my mind he is supporting capitalism and would like to see a humane health care system available to all citizens.

[The Conquistador]

Originally Posted by randolph

What counts is what he is doing now and there is no question in my mind he is supporting capitalism and would like to see a humane health care system available to all citizens.

The definition of capitalism:

Main Entry: cap·i·tal·ism
Pronunciation: \ˈka-pə-tə-ˌliz-əm, ˈkap-tə-, British also kə-ˈpi-tə-\
Function: noun
Date: 1877
: an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market.


I fail to see how giving the gov't control over a private enterprise is in any way capitalistic. It is more like this:

Main Entry: so·cial·ism
Pronunciation: \ˈsō-shə-ˌli-zəm\
Function: noun
Date: 1837
1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2 a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3 : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

Pay close attention to the first part of the definition...

“It is amazing that people who think we cannot afford to pay for doctors, hospitals, and medication somehow think that we can afford to pay for doctors, hospitals, medication and a government bureaucracy to administer it.”-Thomas Sowell

[randolph]

From the LA Examiner, Brian Ashamakus

Is anyone else tired of the "Obama is a socialist" rhetoric coming from the far right. I sure am and I would like to take this opportunity to define socialism and then to demonstrate why Obama is not a subscriber to this economic theory.

Socialism does not describe a single economic system, however there are certain principles that are common to all forms of socialism. 1. The abolition of private property and the implementation of some form of collective ownership. In other words, the people, or their representatives (a government, party, union, guild, etc.) control land, property, and capital as a group instead of it being controlled privately by individuals and companies as in capitalism. 2. The elimination of social and economic classes. Under socialism there is no rich and poor and equality in wealth and power. 3. Production according to ability and distribution according to need. Thus in a socialist society, all produce goods and provide services according to their talents and skills and receive whatever goods and services they need from other producers. Historically, this distribution method has been accomplished through a government bureaucracy, but state control is not a necessary quality of socialism. In other words socialists seek to eliminate the capitalist (supply and demand) form of distribution.

In order to defend my thesis that Obama is not a socialist, I will look at three of his policies as president that have most often resulted in the misuse of that label--the bailout of the auto companies, the economic stimulus, and his current health care proposal. First, the auto bailout. A socialist, as mentioned above, opposes private ownership and would want automobile manufacture to be controlled collectively and for automobiles to be distributed according to need. The auto bailout's goal, however, was to help the private companies, known as the Big 3, to survive as private institutions that sell their cars according to what customers will pay for them. Thus, its goal was to preserve an aspect of capitalism (the American share of the automobile market), not establish socialism.

The economic stimulus, officially called the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009, had a similar intent. The recovery's website lists several goals of the act. Some of them include reviving the renewable energy industry, investing in infrastructure, and granting tax credits to working families. These are not the goals of a socialist. Remember that a socialist seeks to eliminate private property and companies, not revive them. A socialist would also do the infrastructure investment differently. Under socialism, the government would enlist employees directly to rebuild infrastructure, not hire private contractors who will in turn hire employees as is the case in this act. Finally, the tax credits are meant to encourage spending by individuals to reinvigorate the economy. The basic premise is that the recipients of these tax credits will use the money to make purchases. This will help companies, who will use their extra earnings to hire more employees, who will be able to spend themselves, thus restarting the economy and saving capitalism. This is known as Keynesian economics, not socialism. The cash for clunkers program also works this way, encouraging spending by subsidizing the purchase with government spending. No socialist would ever try to save capitalism, which they see as the creator of the class system that they despise.

President Obama's health care plan is possibly the policy that most often results in Obama being accused of being a socialist. However, it is also the policy that best demonstrates that he is not. Obama's health care plan has many stipulations, but the primary one is the creation of a public option for health care through which insurance is purchased as a group for a lower premium. This would, however, only be an option. Persons would not be required to drop their existing insurance, nor would private insurance companies be eliminated. The plan also includes several reforms that are meant to reduce health care costs, including subsidies for employers, record-keeping improvements, and regulations of prescription drug companies. These reforms are made without nationalizing any private entities. It even seeks to help small business, by assisting them in paying for their employee health benefits. It doesn't even distribute health care according to need, as persons are still required to pay for the public option. It is therefore quite clear that this bill is not a "socialist" bill, nor is President Obama a socialist.

President Obama is a capitalist. His policies are directed at rescuing companies, revitalizing the capitalist economy, helping small businesses, and creating competition, all things actual socialists would cringe at. So please stop saying that Obama is a socialist, please stop posting it on your blogs, or yelling it at town meetings, or wearing T-shirts of it, or writing it on picket signs. Concentrate instead on legitimate criticisms of his policies and your opposition will be much more effective and better received.

[randolph]

Interesting comparison of Glenn Becks logo.

[The Conquistador]

Lets see what John Stossel has to say.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9GMKK_fWKg&

[The Conquistador]

Originally Posted by randolph

The auto bailout's goal, however, was to help the private companies, known as the Big 3, to survive as private institutions that sell their cars according to what customers will pay for them. Thus, its goal was to preserve an aspect of capitalism (the American share of the automobile market), not establish socialism.

The government should not be in the business of helping out businesses.

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx
No, a purely capitalist system would allow a failing company or financial institution to fail. That's what bankruptcy is for. A socialist system would make them part of the government.

By accepting bailout money, the "Man" can assume de facto control by saying"We wanna make sure that this money is spent right, so we'll determine how things are spent and/or run."

Originally Posted by randolph

The economic stimulus, officially called the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009, had a similar intent. The recovery's website lists several goals of the act. Some of them include reviving the renewable energy industry, investing in infrastructure, and granting tax credits to working families. These are not the goals of a socialist. Remember that a socialist seeks to eliminate private property and companies, not revive them. A socialist would also do the infrastructure investment differently. Under socialism, the government would enlist employees directly to rebuild infrastructure, not hire private contractors who will in turn hire employees as is the case in this act. Finally, the tax credits are meant to encourage spending by individuals to reinvigorate the economy. The basic premise is that the recipients of these tax credits will use the money to make purchases. This will help companies, who will use their extra earnings to hire more employees, who will be able to spend themselves, thus restarting the economy and saving capitalism. This is known as Keynesian economics, not socialism. The cash for clunkers program also works this way, encouraging spending by subsidizing the purchase with government spending. No socialist would ever try to save capitalism, which they see as the creator of the class system that they despise.

The quote,"death by a thousand cuts" is relevant here. Once again, a push by the gov't to gain control of private sector enterprises. Just because they don't try to take control by more forceful means does not mean that they are not trying to take over. Rather than trying to control everything in a Soviet-esque manner, they know that they can achieve the same goals in a more subtle manner. People don't respond kindly to outright attacks, so they've changed tactics and found that you can get people to vote for this shit in times of uncertainty under the guise of "financial stability/security","hope and change" or what ever catchphrase they are using.

Originally Posted by randolph

President Obama is a capitalist. His policies are directed at rescuing companies, revitalizing the capitalist economy, helping small businesses, and creating competition, all things actual socialists would cringe at.

There is a world outside of Berkeley you know.

Originally Posted by randolph

So please stop saying that Obama is a socialist, please stop posting it on your blogs, or yelling it at town meetings, or wearing T-shirts of it, or writing it on picket signs. Concentrate instead on legitimate criticisms of his policies and your opposition will be much more effective and better received.

I am, yet it seems that if I don't believe in a particular political solution or I'm not fellating Obama like everyone else, I am automatically labeled as a back-asswards, racist/misogynist/bigoted redneck who has a heart of stone and clings bitterly to guns and religion.