Are We an Ignored Minority?

i think,cause it's not "normal" for the normal "people" << they(the world wide goverments and in the school too < of course) should be started to say" we haven't not only 2 gender,but also 3" << for me is this for a long time clear..

[Bionca]

Nice to see this post. I have posted a few topics on this subject and I have lots of thoughts about this too.

I think that guys who date/love/fuck trans women get lots of mixed messages and as a result play into some not-so-great behaviors. This just reinforces to trans women that guys are not safe/can't be trusted/ will bail as soon as stuff gets complicated/ are always looking to "trade up". Not all by any means, but enough that generalizations are easy to make.

From my perspective as a trans woman, I just don't see much support or real attempt at understanding what it is we have going on in our lives and how some pretty basic stuff can be complicated.

I was lucky in that my first bf was older by 10 years and had been with a couple Tgs before. On the up side, he was able to put me in contact with some great gals who helped guide me through those first awkward years. He made enough money that I could save all my money to get surgeries and hormones and stuff.

He also screwed most every one of my friends. He insisted that I be completely "stealth" with all of his friends and family and co-workers. To the point I was pretty neurotic when in public incse I got clocked. God forbid if I coughed, cleared my throat, laughed, or sneezed - all of those were (to him) opportunities for (HIS) shame. Eventually, after 7 years, he decided he wanted to be a dad after getting someone pregnant and we broke up.

I've also had no shortage of rotten dates, broken dates, and violent dates. But I have also met some really terrific guys who seem pretty genuine. Of these guys there is a real desire to help support trans women - but none of them really have a place to talk about that. There isn't a "community" much less a term to apply. If something can't be named, does it really exist?

[Bionca]

obviously you exit - and you have names: Homo, Closet-Case, Admirer, and Chaser. Do these accurately describe you? Do these describe what you guys want to be?

"Admirer"and "Chaser" seem to be popular within the "scene", but they are not particularly positive.

Admirer: Guys looking from afar, and not really participating OR Night-time visitors who show up when the wife is away.

Chaser: A guy actively looking and "chasing" any old trans woman, always on the hunt for that elusive fantasy trans - and willing to "trade up".

You bring up a very good point about the whys men are reluctant to be open about their attractions. Trans people face the same issues. I hear guys lamenting "If only society was different, I'd be free to explore/date/introduce". But it really doesn't progress from there. Nothing gets better just because.

*This is where I get in trouble*

This opinion is colored by my past experiences and observations and should only be taken in that light. Trans women don't have the luxury of being angsty about this for very long. We live in a world that wants to ignore us at best destroy us more often. We don't have an out, we can't break up with ourselves. We can't tell our friends we were drunk/confused/deceived.

While we are all impacted to one degree or another by social, legal, and economic issues related to being and dating trans - I don't see many men stepping up to make it better. I know plenty of trans men and women doing lots of hard work, I see plenty of cis women who are dating trans men and women (Helen Boyd for example) being open and honest and working with us to make things easier. I know a handful of men who do much more than wish it wasn't so hard.

There has to be a solution. Men have to be a part.

[rockabilly]

I dont care for labels myself. I am a human being first and foremost , i have feelings and desires the same as every human since the beginning of civilization. I love m2f tg and i dont see anything wrong w/ that. If other humans have a problem w/ it than that is their hangup not mine.

[Bionca]

I have been EXTREMELY lucky in that I have never had to do sex work. I was able to get my degree and use it helping trans kids and GLB youth in Chicago. Then I was able to get a job in a supportive company. Even so, we have had some bouts regarding use of the bathroom. Also, I was born in a state that will not change my birth certificate no matter what I do - my documentation will always be miss-matched (Insurance card with and drivers license say "F", Passport and Social Security say "M").

However, you are absolutely correct. Finding mainstream employment is VERY hard. One study in San Francisco shows that Trans women on average have BA or higher degree and make less than $20K/ year. So, even when employed many TGs need to subsidize their income in less legal ways. Couple that with insurance (when you can get it) that won't pay for any trans-related care and you have a system that creates sex workers and keeps them there. It's not like you can use your former years as an escort to land that sweet job at IBM.

This is one of those areas where allies are critical in a political movement. There is legislation in the US Senate (passed the House already) that will make it illegal to use a persons sexual orientation or gender identity to deny them employment. While it won't fix anything, it will at least make a company come up with an actual valid reason not to hire someone (or more likely to fire someone) for being trans.

[tgsexual]

Originally Posted by bi0mech81

the vast majority of guys who are attracted towards TGs see them only as sex objects/toys, drives most TG women towards prostitution/escorting, and/or entering the adult entertainment industry.

BTW: Thanks to you and others for the great feedback and sharing some enthusiasm for the development of a community that may assist transwomen lovers.

Just a thought on your comment above - Yes, most of the tg loving crew seems to have scrambled out of the dark via the internet to recognize they have a sexual attraction to tgs. This combined with the fact that there are many barriers to developing serious long term relationship ensure that most man 2 transwomen experiences are almost entirely sexual and fleeting in nature. I'm no prude, but I think it's quite sad that such narrow relationships so dominate the experience of how these two complimentary people cooperate.

Having had a real relationship with a transwoman, I can assure those people who wonder about it that it is far more satisfying than short-time romps or web cam jerks or whatever else one must resort to for pleasure. You may just find that it fits you perfectly, like the 'girls born with vaginas' never could. And the fit is both sexually and emotionally satisfying.

There are people with experiences, lessons to guide others on their journey. For me it took over 20 years to work it all out for myself. A good community could speed that process for many, giving them the confidence to find and build relationships that can truly be satisfying for themselves and their tg partner.

What a shame so many are so lonely so long, not knowing much about how they might find more happiness together. Seems to me, a community, support groups, information should be made available to assist this process. The name, is just a step in self recognition, it does not define us, but assists in the process of association, cooperation and communication.

Another point: I found out the term Gynandromorphophilia was actually coined by those who would wish our condition to be included as a mental illness. I'd prefer not to promote it or have any association with it. I'd rather take some cuddles from my girlfriend than some anti-depressants to ease my pain

Here's one term a friend suggested to me: Men who Love Transwomen, which could utilise the acronym MELT.

Please Melters and Freinds of Melters (FOMELTERS) out there let me know what you think of that term, or if you have any other suggestions.

[rockabilly]

" I'll stop the world and MELT with you "

thats how i feel about my gf.

[tgsexual]

Originally Posted by rockabilly

" I'll stop the world and MELT with you "

thats how i feel about my gf.

awwww

I know that feeling of being defrosted

[AmyW]

That's actually kind of cute. If it catches on, I hope it doesn't displace the actual meaning, otherwise we won't be able to say stuff like "This ice cream's melting!" without everyone sniggering.

[tgsexual]

Originally Posted by AmyW

That's actually kind of cute. If it catches on, I hope it doesn't displace the actual meaning, otherwise we won't be able to say stuff like "This ice cream's melting!" without everyone sniggering.

Not to mention, the Wizard of Oz's wicked witch of the west may never be seen in the same way.
youtube.com/watch?v=qfV_ENR5IZE

[newdude]

I have been with my girl for about a year - with a stupid lapse of a few months while I was stupid and got freaked out . She was good enough to accept my apology and we have been a thing ever since.

While I don't have any problems with porn (I actually kinda like it ) It is weird that I couldn't find anyplce to talk about this that wasn't either a dating site or a porn site. The guys on the porn sites seem lots more honest and willing to talk to each other than on the dating sites, so here I am.

I also think we need more representation and more talking among ourselves. One problem I have is that I think it's hard to date a t-girl, but I don't want to bring that up to her because she will probably take it the wrong way (sorry baby - being honest). Having a group online to ask questions or just rant and vent and work things out would be cool. Since dating my girl I start to understand that she has lots of problems just trying to have a life and she had gone through lots of crap. I feel like I'd just be dumping my own weirdness on her. Hope that doesn't sound dumb.

[Talvenada]

Originally Posted by Bionca

I think that guys who date/love/fuck trans women get lots of mixed messages and as a result play into some not-so-great behaviors.


If something can't be named, does it really exist?

BIONCA:

Everything exists until we find it, and try to communicate without finger pointing and grunting!

I think most of the guys on this site have never dated, loved or fucked trans women!


What say you?


Piece,


TAL