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[TS_aficionado]

Angry Postman: Thank you for your candor. Cheers

[Tread]

Originally Posted by TS_aficionado

If we take your previous points, then this the scenario we need to believe happened: There was nothing. Then (somehow) planets and materials existed. Then (somehow) simple life forms existed (this is miraculous on its own). Then amazingly enough, and without any guiding hand, this simple life form (somehow) got more complex over time. Then (somehow) it developed intelligence and consciousness. Then (somehow) it became millions upon millions of different species, including humans. Even an Atheist would require God for a somehow-laced scenario like that. If you take the somehows and fill in the blanks with "over the course of billions of years", that won't make it any more plausible, since order can not form in a random environment. Again, this is akin to putting all the right materials somewhere, then after billions of years expecting the materials to somehow put themselves together, form a computer, then form artificial intelligence. Impossible. Even more impossible if we expect inanimate objects to form real intelligence, language, DNA, life and consciousness.

Who said that first was nothing? No accepted Theories know what was in the beginning of our universe. But not knowing does not say that there was nothing, or something must create this.

I skip some time periods that are way under 1 second and I keep it simple and short. I skip antiparticles as well. The universe cools rapidly, Quarks occur. Quarks form Hadrons, which form Protons, Neutrons and Neutrinos. Leptons occur like Electrons. After 10 seconds Protons and Neutrons had a nuclear fusion to the first Atoms (first materials).
Planets occur much later. About 1 million years cloud of matter collapse because of gravitation. This created stars, planets and galaxies.

Chemical reactions formed Amino Acids, Lipids and Purines. They are all essential for our life forms. This is proven, search for chemical evolution and/or the Miller-Urey experiment, this is the most common.
Life itself gets more complicated. What is life? Define life so I don't have to explain everything. Must there be a Metabolism, Growth, Reproduction, and so on. Focus on Virus, Viroid, Prion, Fire, Cell, Spore(not the game) and Cryptobiosis. I'm not all knowing, but I try to answer further questions on life, it doesn't occur suddenly.

Microorganism can cooperate with other, and they exchange DNA. The DNA can grow by adding other DNA, or two Microorganisms live symbiotic and fusion together so that more than one DNA string is in a cell, typical for Microorganism. The complexity comes over time. I don't think I have to explain evolution. But if you have doubts about it and understand biology and genetic, than take a closer look at Epigenetics. Especially the problem with the "random mutations"

[Jenae LaTorque]

Same story in a new location.

On one side you have the anti Intelligent Design Theory people who can present scientific facts that back up their position. They have no problem understanding the other sides position since they are human also and are susceptible to the same influences. Don't think they don't wish in their hearts for "pie in the sky". They however have been able to look at matters as they are, and not how they wish they could be.

On the other side, you have the Intelligent Design advocates who usually can demonstrate only their ignorance of scientific matters. They look at a structure like the eye and think how could something this complex evolve. Do they take the time to go on the net or find a book that shows the evolution of the eye step by step? No, they would rather wallow in their ignorance and remain in the dark ages.

They will say that some scientist doesn't believe in evolution and use them as a source of authority. If they knew their history, they would know that at one time the majority of scientists didn't believe man would ever be able to fly. Yet here we are with millions of people flying every year. Just because someone is termed scientist doesn't make him the authority. Scientific authority is arrived at by a consensus of scientists which in itself is constantly evolving as new theories are confirmed or negated by scientific studies.

One important thing to remember in this evolution vs God controversy is that religion (the idea of God or Gods) has had a big head start. It is only recently, the last few hundred years, that the sciences have really been able to begin to brush away the fog that is man's ignorance of the universe about us. The Intelligent Design theory is just religion's latest attempt to hold back the tide that is sweeping away all that they once held as truth. The Catholic Church no longer disputes that evolution is a fact. Think about that for a bit. This is the same organization that once tortured, burned, and hung people for believing anything but strict canon.

There is no evidence of a creator, I repeat; THERE IS NO EVIDENCE!!!
And yes, I have looked at so called evidence that makes the objections presented here seem like the simple nitpicking of schoolkids that they are.I say to you nitpickers, "Until you have really read the literature and understand what the Theory of Evolution is about, you are only displaying your ignorance."

[Jenae LaTorque]

But I doubt many of the ID folk understood it.

Actually, the religious folks have my sympathy. They have been conditioned by a culture that has religious belief as one of the main under pinnings of the foundation. It is very hard to put the nonsense behind you to really look at what is proven fact. Even so, think how hard it was for someone like Galileo to go against the teachings of the church and to assert that the sun and not the earth was at the center of the solar system. I'd say he was damn fortunate to not lose his life completely over it.

I have a challenge for the ID people. Present one solid piece of evidence that indicates that there is a Creator. Show me one thing that cannot be explained by any other factor than that there was a creator who made it so. I double dare ya! I'll warn you now that simply because we don't know how something came to be does not by default mean that there is intelligent design responsible for it; all it means is that we dont know, YET!