pics of you?

[eliogabalo]

Originally Posted by Ogryn1313

Man, just because a nation might ban guns and is less violent makes nobody superior. People are the same wherever you may go I've come to see. Look at me. I love my guns. I enjoy shooting them and blasting apart things like old tv sets, computer pieces, whatever. Yeah, that's aggressive and destructive. But you know what? I've never shot an animal. I've never shot nor want to shoot a human. So you're no better than me.
And take away the guns the criminals will use other weapons. And the bow and arrow actually inflicts more trauma than most guns. If it can be used to hurt another the criminals will use it. Personally, I'd hate to see America become Europeanized. There's much about the culture in Europe that can be considered not good. Take the French, steadily becoming an entitlement based society of lazy assed whiners. You know, they have a law there that allows someone not to be fired for any reason for the first year or two of employment?
As for the ladyboys...maybe some of them wouldn't mind getting in a little target practice with this unevolved and inferior American. And after that a bit of target practice with our non lethal guns.

You hate to see America become Europeanized ... It's very strange ... We in Europe have the feeling we ar Americanizated...
Why so acrimonious ? I'm italian, but the French, with its wonderful art and culture, is the most stunning nation in the world.
Down with Nationalism!

[hankhavelock]

Originally Posted by eliogabalo

You hate to see America become Europeanized ... It's very strange ... We in Europe have the feeling we ar Americanizated...
Why so acrimonious ? I'm italian, but the French, with its wonderful art and culture, is the most stunning nation in the world.
Down with Nationalism!

We really should ask the moderator to set up a place to discuss off-topic issues.

Your point is very interesting.

Primarily the fascination of America in the rest of the world is shallow and uninformed - as, indeed, American culture is as well in many regards (but certainly not all). But America has been considerably more succesful in exporting Coca Cola, hamburgers and entertaining movies than anything else. Which, of course, in many regards gives a very distorted picture of America as a carefree nation where every thing is light and easy.

But it takes two to tango and the blame is as well on us. And it also means that we sometimes miss the point of what the "true" America really is - with all its flaws and all its wonders.

With the current administration it's VERY hard to credibly "export" American moral and political values - because these original values are under severe attack in America itself right now.

But, tomorrow will come :-) If you watch history America has the track-record in inconsistency... but some how she always lands on her feet AND on the side of "good".

And the best thing is that we can HAVE these discussions... which is not least due to American intervention when it REALLY mattered!

Peace!

Hank

[hankhavelock]

Just for your info, I messaged the administrator and asked if we can set up an extra thread for off-topic issues.

The fact is that we meet here, start discussing here and better stay here. On the other hand, the current and interesting political debate is not at all relevant to the topic of this forum, so I'm afraid we'll ruin the debate.

What do you think?

Hank

[eliogabalo]

This issue is very complicated. Many Europeans feel annoyed because the Americans think they are the "standard-bearers" of freedom, democracy and civil rights in the world. This fact, from our point of view, is a sort of embezzlement. You see; i live in Florence, the city in wich, in the year 1786, Pietro Leopoldo di Lorena abolished the Death Sentence. When i think that in the USA the Death Sentence is still a sad reality, i find very hard to understand the american attitude. The same thing can be said for the second world war. Apart the issue of the political and economic interests of the USA in the war, the american contribution was very important. But the contribution of England and, above all, of the Soviet Union ( 20 millions of Russians dead fighting against Hitler !!), was really huge.
We admire the USA very much and feel very attracted by their fascinating culture based on freedom and individualism. Nevertheless, we have the feeling the Americans take the credit for everything is happened in the modern history ...

[mykel73]

Originally Posted by eliogabalo

This issue is very complicated. Many Europeans feel annoyed because the Americans think they are the "standard-bearers" of freedom, democracy and civil rights in the world. This fact, from our point of view, is a sort of embezzlement. You see; i live in Florence, the city in wich, in the year 1786, Pietro Leopoldo di Lorena abolished the Death Sentence. When i think that in the USA the Death Sentence is still a sad reality, i find very hard to understand the american attitude. The same thing can be said for the second world war. Apart the issue of the political and economic interests of the USA in the war, the american contribution was very important. But the contribution of England and, above all, of the Soviet Union ( 20 millions of Russians dead fighting against Hitler !!), was really huge.
We admire the USA very much and feel very attracted by their fascinating culture based on freedom and individualism. Nevertheless, we have the feeling the Americans take the credit for everything is happened in the modern history ...

You have a very good point, and maybe it's the way I way brought up but I have always told my friends that they need to remember that we (other Americans and I) are not the only nation out there. We where never meant to be the peace keepers of the world. That is why we have the UN, and we have no right to tell another nation how to govern them selves when we are so divided at home. I love my Country but sometimes we can be full of our selves and I'm ashamed of that fact.

[hankhavelock]

Originally Posted by mykel73

You have a very good point, and maybe it's the way I way brought up but I have always told my friends that they need to remember that we (other Americans and I) are not the only nation out there. We where never meant to be the peace keepers of the world. That is why we have the UN, and we have no right to tell another nation how to govern them selves when we are so divided at home. I love my Country but sometimes we can be full of our selves and I'm ashamed of that fact.

I still think we should move this debate to another thread, but so be it.

Mykel, by my view there's always two sides to a coin. And if these two sides represent the extremes then the true solution is probably some where in the middle. In America you have the right wing currently of the impression that anybody against your current president is, indeed, against America - on the other extreme you have the isolationists that believe that America should withdraw from any international interaction. In Europe we have the people readily accepting ANY THING coming from America as gospel - and on the other side the anti-Americans that only see the CocaColas, the hand guns and the Bushes...

They all represent simplified views of a complex world.

We all need each other in this world - now more than ever - and to succesfully face the giant challenges ahead of us we need to work together and to take equal part. American and European history are united - well, American culture is primarily based on Europe and to imagine a world where these two parts do not interact is ridiculous.

But now other parts of the world are coming along as equal partners - and then it is our duty to welcome these new players in a positive spirit. South East Asia for example is on the move and can contribute tremendously to the development of this world in the right direction.

So, it's looking promising if we can just accept each other and learn the good and the bad from different societies.

I have to disagree a little bit with you, though. You said that it is not America's job to be a peace-keeper. I believe you are wrong in that opinion. Obviously, going to war in sinister Middle Eastern countries is not an example of peace keeping. How ever, history shows that if America does not actively participate then we might all be in serious trouble.

H

[eliogabalo]

Every time a nation is very powerful, it assumes the role of peace-keeper and civilizer of the world, but it always ends up looking only after its interests.
So did the Roman Empire, so the Spain, so the Soviet Union, so the England ... now it's the turn of the USA. Perhaps i'm a bit pessimist, but i think this is unavoidable.
Regarding human and civil rights, i think some European nations are at the moment the most advanced in the world: Holland, England; French and the amazing Spain of Zapatero, who introduced in a catholic country the homosexual marriage.

[Ogryn1313]

It all got started because I posted a pic of myself and my arsenal. A damned pity I didn't have any other pic of myself to post. Yeah yeah, I get it. America is the worst country in the world. So inferior to Europeans. You know, I go to another website which sadly has less intellectual people than this good site. And day in and day out it's nothing but a hate filled, bash America, the president, Christians and other stuff. Very few people on that other site have informed opinions and just spout off far left dogma.
I agree, if this site has a forum section for such stuff that'd be good. But I'll be keeping out of it. This site is my alternative to that hateful other one. If I had known my pic would spawn this shit I'd not have posted it.
Is it possible I can take it down and remove my posts?