Barack Obama

[CreativeMind]

Originally Posted by GGadmirer

I don't really want to get involved in American politics but there is one thing I just dont understand. It seems that many people, including the experts, classify George Bush II as the worst American president ever. I can understand that first time mistake, but how could you people ever elect him for a second term?????

Diana

Try to remember something, Diana: Americans don't see things the same way the rest of the world does. I mean, I know that's a pretty obvious statement, but frankly Europeans and other countries around the world just... don't... get... that... no matter...how many times...we say it. It's funny, but the same way that Europeans or other foreigners look as us and say "Why don't you just do this?", we look back at the rest of you with an incredulous look and say "Why the hell would ANYONE want to do that?"

Bottom line: We're Americans, and we have our own ideals and views of how things should be done.

That said, keep in mind two things. When George Bush ran against John Kerry, America was still feeling the effects of 9/11 on our psyche. We still wanted a President that we felt would keep us safe, and we had already begun the Iraq War and many Americans didn't feel it was wise to change Commander-in-Chiefs in the middle of things. Not to mention, as an opponent for the office, John Kerry did a piss poor job of convincing anyone he was anything but a two-faced liar.

In fact, if you want to know WHY Bush won a second term, here's all you need to know and it plays off that last point. The night that the election was held in 2004, an exti poll was taken. And the two questions that the poll asked was very simple and very insightful and ultimately revealed why Bush won.

The first question was: "Who do you think is more likely to say whatever they need to say in order to get elected?" In other words, who was more likely to be a typical politician that would lie out of both sides of their mouth -- say one thing, one day, to one group of people, on one side of the country, but then say a different thing, the next day, to another group of people, on the other side of the country.

The result: 75% said Kerry would say whatever it took to get elected...but only 25% said Bush.

The poll then asked a second parallel question. It asked "Who do you think is more likely to tell you what they REALLY think -- regardless of whether or not you will agree with them?" In other words, if you ran into Bush or Kerry in a bar or while you were out shopping and said "Look, no bullshit and all kidding aside, just lay it on the line for me. Tell me what you REALLY think about abortion...tell me what you REALLY think about gay marriage...etc, etc, etc."

The result: It literally flipped. 75% felt Bush was more likely to tell you what he REALLY thought, whether you agreed with him or not...while only 25% felt Kerry would tell you what he REALLY felt in his heart.

And lastly, your one statement is a bit deceptive when you say he was the worst president ever and even the "experts" agree with that. That's a very disingenuous statement since you're NOT actually naming any of these so-called "experts" -- and let's be totally honest. So many people who do different things call themselves "experts" with the thinnest of qualifications, thus making their opinions either valueless or just another opinion that's no better than the next person's.

Case in point: back in the fall as the new election was held, 40 prominent Presidential scholars and biographers and researchers were asked to rank all of the Presidents through history, and Bush did NOT land in the last spot -- in fact, he didn't even make the bottom 10. Most agreed that it was too early for history to judge him, especially if the war in Iraq turned around (which it seems to have done) and a democracy (of sorts) was actually established there.

Another example of that: those same scholars noted that for years and years, Dwight Eisenhower was always considered "average" as a Presidentat best, but now looking back with the passage of time...and looking back on his two terms as President and looking at the economy he oversaw, his dealings with foreign matters, etc...he suddenly leaped into the Top 10 and is now regarded of as one of the most successful and best Presidents ever.

[transjen]

Shall we make the lieing weasel Bush a saint now or shall we just make him GOD? Most eveybody hated the weasel GEORGE W BUSH the man never told the truth a day in his life and has never been held accountable a day in his life be it drunk driving drug use not paying taxs on stock options being AWOL from the air national guard lieing about WMDS and the countless other crimes he committed , plus he F up the econemy big time and ran up record debts, But the weasel did give hope to the retarted by showing even a retart can be president if he has family in high enough places to steel an election Jennifer

[CreativeMind]

Originally Posted by transjen

Shall we make the lieing weasel Bush a saint now or shall we just make him GOD?

Plus he F up the econemy big time and ran up record debts, But the weasel did give hope to the retarted by showing even a retart can be president if he has family in high enough places to steel an election Jennifer

First...no one is calling for Bush to be a Saint or god. For crying out loud, Jen, if you really read what many of us have been posting and saying here -- instead of having just a knee-jerk reaction to simply outright hating Bush -- you'd clearly see that many of us on the Right WERE MAD AT BUSH for many of his mistakes, such as spending too much. And WE'VE CRITCIZED HIM AND SAID IT HERE IN THIS THREAD REPEATEDLY.

Which brings me to addressing your second point.
Tell you what, let's have a show of hands over this one...

In the long run, as each and every American is FINALLY going to have to pay the piper for all the debt that our government has racked up, to reduce the national debt, who are you REALLY going to be MORE mad at? And who do you REALLY think your children or grandkids, your young nieces and nephews, are REALLY going to be pissed at as they grow up themselves and inherit tomorrow's financial world as all these bills come due?

George Bush, who left you with a $900 Billion dollar debt, which frankly was too large and should be held against him.

OR...

Barack Obama, who in only his first 100 days in office, has spent more money than EVERY PRESIDENT since George Washington COMBINED. And whose budget for this year could actually exceed TWO TRILLION-PLUS DOLLARS -- and still counting and going upwards since he's not even done spending yet, since NOW he wants to tack on Healthcare reform this year TOO. Which means in just ONE YEAR ALONE he's already managed to TRIPLE the Bush debt. Not to mention his economic plan, according to the Congressional Budget Office (which is a non-partisan group and simply runs the numbers to an accurate degree) has ALSO already calculated that Obama's plan is going to run a ONE TRILLION DEFICIT PER YEAR -- per year!!! -- FOR THE NEXT 10 YEARS AS WELL.

So, let's have a show of hands. Who did worse?
Bush leaving you with $900 Billion in debt...
...Or Obama leaving you THIRTEEN TRILLION DOLLARS in the hole?

Come on, I know everyone took basic math.
This one isn't THAT tough to answer.

[Bionca]

Originally Posted by CreativeMind

First...no one is calling for Bush to be a Saint or god. For crying out loud, Jen, if you really read what many of us have been posting and saying here -- instead of having just a knee-jerk reaction to simply outright hating Bush -- you'd clearly see that many of us on the Right WERE MAD AT BUSH for many of his mistakes, such as spending too much. And WE'VE CRITCIZED HIM AND SAID IT HERE IN THIS THREAD REPEATEDLY.

It's funny I read this over and over on political discussion boards, and I have for the past year and a half. You know when it was politically prudent for Cons to distance themselves from Bush. Suddenly he went from being a poor guy who wasn't given a chance by whining liberals to "spending like a drunk sailor". Funny how those behaviors were hardly invisible during the previous 7 years, but rank-n-file Cons were so willing to overlook that as long as Georgie stopped funding foreign aid that supported abortion and/or birth control, threatened a Constitutional amendment to define marriage, and gave tax money to churches to fund their programs rather than secular bodies.

Now when you all are being called out you are trying to play it off like "yeah he made some mistakes, and he wasn't a real Scotsman..urm Conservative". Better yet distancing yourselves from the social right wing that kept getting your stuff elected because middle America is starting to be wary of that agenda.

You all may have been spending the past 8 years ranting into the wind, and I have no doubt that you honestly feel what you are saying. However, I have been seeing the same stuff on different sites posted by people who couldn't stop blaming (whining, divisive, communist, petulant, etc.) liberals/Democrats for 6+ years of the trouble with Bush/Cheney/Rove.

[desirouspussy]

Originally Posted by CreativeMind

And lastly, your one statement is a bit deceptive when you say he was the worst president ever and even the "experts" agree with that.

What I said was 'It seems that many people, including the experts, classify George Bush II as the worst American president ever'.

It appears you are twisting things around a bit. Perhaps a habit you picked up from George Bush.

[transjen]

The 900 billon is not counting the wars KING GEORGE always left the funding for them out of the budget and every other month was running to congress for more funds for the troops, As far as Obamas buliding apon the debt is due to his idea on how to restart the econemy, His plan is to create jobs by rebuliding roads dams and other projects, Will it work? IN the short term i think it will help but the jobs created are only tempery at best as sadly KING GEORGE was on the lets outsource all the US jobs express, Oh if you and Rush are so worried about the debt level then stop crying we need more tax cuts for the rich only and by the way the 13 trillon debt figure is counting KING GEORGES WARS Jennifer

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by transjen

Oh if you and Rush are so worried about the debt level then stop crying we need more tax cuts for the rich only and by the way the 13 trillon debt figure is counting KING GEORGES WARS Jennifer

LOL all of Bush's debt during his 8 years in office is 8% of that $13 trillion. Obama's debt during his first 2 months is 21%. What part of this don't you understand?

Originally Posted by transjen

Of course we all know W never lied In fact when did that lieing little weasle W ever tell the truth? Q: how did you know W was lieing? A: his lipps were moving Jennifer

Jen you are so full of blind hate for Bush. I don't think you've ever backed up anything you've said, and consequentially no one takes you seriously. And btw, if you claim Bush lied about WMD, then you'd have to conclude that Madeleine Albright, Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, Howard Dean, Sandy Berger, Nancy Pelosi, Joe Biden and John Edwards also lied about the same thing. Half these people "lied" about WMD before Bush ever took office.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5p-qIq32m8

Originally Posted by transjen

Yes it was the Charlotte SUN TIMES or SUN HAROLD i forget which now but it was a locale paper in SW FL that did the recount Jennifer

This is the closest you've ever come to backing up any of your claims. Unfortunately it's a dead end. I can't find anything to your sources that even you don't have. What your claiming happened would have been huge news... that when all the votes were carefully counted, free of any deadlines, Gore won!? That's huge news. Give me some sources!

[transjen]

OH excuss me, HE only ran up a small debt which was fine becacuse it was for tax cuts for the super rich , and the little guys will get humped paying it back now you're pissing your pants over the super debt caused by the no good rotten Dems and worst of all they expect the super rich to pay there share God forbid horrors of horrors And of course you will never believe anything i say or any souce i could mention unless it from a rightwing news sourse like Rush or foxnews, To you W is GOD and you will never see him for the peice of crap he was and of course you believe he never did anything wrong and you are quick to blame the Dems for everything, And here's a source for you it's called a history book in which you will find Clinton didn't take half info and cherry pick it to twist into a form he could use to start a war with Iraq W lied Clinton wanted more postive proof. Clinton's only error was not hunting down Binladin [ i know i probly spelled his name wrong] W didn't hurt him either oh he gave speechs and sound bits but he never put any real effert in hunting him my souce is he's still out there Jennifer

[TracyCoxx]

Originally Posted by transjen

OH excuss me, HE only ran up a small debt which was fine becacuse it was for tax cuts for the super rich , and the little guys will get humped paying it back now you're pissing your pants over the super debt caused by the no good rotten Dems and worst of all they expect the super rich to pay there share God forbid horrors of horrors

Whatever humping the little guys will do will be multiplied by orders of magnitude to pay back BO's debt. And yes the little guys will pay too. It may not be through their income tax statement (or then again it might be), it will also be in fees and expenses for things like bringing their cars up to new environmental standards, or via inflation as companies operating expenses go up courtesy of BO. Prepare to bend over... we're all going to get it up the ass.

Originally Posted by transjen

And of course you will never believe anything i say or any souce i could mention unless it from a rightwing news sourse like Rush or foxnews,

Wrong. You provide NO source and when I point that out you make the leap in logic that I will only accept right wing sources. Explain.

Originally Posted by transjen

To you W is GOD and you will never see him for the peice of crap he was and of course you believe he never did anything wrong

Wrong. He is not god. He is not king. And if you ever pay attention on here I have pointed out several things he's done wrong.

Originally Posted by transjen

and you are quick to blame the Dems for everything,

Wrong. Not everything - like you do with Bush. Only for what they've done. Point out one unsubstantiated complaint I've had about the dems.

Originally Posted by transjen

And here's a source for you it's called a history book in which you will find Clinton didn't take half info and cherry pick it to twist into a form he could use to start a war with Iraq

If you're going to use a history book as a source, at least look at a history book. This is how we use sources. Put a friken link to the source so anyone can look at it: http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/stori...s/clinton.html And that wasn't even a right wing source now was it?

Originally Posted by Bill Clinton - 1998

CLINTON: Good evening.

Earlier today, I ordered America's armed forces to strike military and security targets in Iraq. They are joined by British forces. Their mission is to attack Iraq's nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs and its military capacity to threaten its neighbors.

Their purpose is to protect the national interest of the United States, and indeed the interests of people throughout the Middle East and around the world.

Saddam Hussein must not be allowed to threaten his neighbors or the world with nuclear arms, poison gas or biological weapons.

:OWNED:

Originally Posted by transjen

W lied Clinton wanted more postive proof. Clinton's only error was not hunting down Binladin [ i know i probly spelled his name wrong]

Oh... that caught me off guard. From reading your posts I didn't think you were worried about spelling. I usually don't nitpick, but since you brought it up... (excuss, becacuse, souce, sourse, peice, postive, probly, effert, souce, hugh, craper, stampping) You didn't look at that youtube video I posted did you? I'll try again: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5p-qIq32m8
Clinton and many other democrats already had all the proof they needed that Iraq had WMD.

Originally Posted by transjen

W didn't hurt him either oh he gave speechs and sound bits but he never put any real effert in hunting him my souce is he's still out there Jennifer

If I were completely ignorant about a subject I would usually avoid it and not advertise my complete ignorance about it. It would be embarrassing. Anyone with any motivation can at least find dozens of things that Bush did to try and find Bin Laden. And that's only if you casually glance over headlines throughout the years. Then there's another layer of information - if you take the time to look - that will show many other things he's done. And then there's the top secret stuff we won't know about for 50 years.

While Bush did have people on the hunt for Bin Laden, he didn't focus all his efforts there. Because while Bin Laden is hiding in some piece of shit cave in a mountain in Afghanistan or Pakistan, cut off from his organization to keep from raising red flags and getting himself caught, we're destroying Al Qaeda. All Bin Laden can do is grumble at us via video tapes.

[randolph]

Tracy,
You are obviously smart, well informed and articulate. However, that does not give you the right to try to humiliate Jen by ridiculing her spelling. Jen has a right to her opinion of Bush and you can defend him all you want. Just keep it civil.
The fact remains that Bush was the worst President in the history of the US.

[transjen]

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Whatever humping the little guys will do will be multiplied by orders of magnitude to pay back BO's debt. And yes the little guys will pay too. It may not be through their income tax statement (or then again it might be), it will also be in fees and expenses for things like bringing their cars up to new environmental standards, or via inflation as companies operating expenses go up courtesy of BO. Prepare to bend over... we're all going to get it up the ass.

So let me get this straight if the GOP was still in power no one would get humped or have to pay this debt? Oh yeah i forgot all aboutl Reganenomics just cut taxes for the top and don't worry about the debt. Those on the right are fine with the debt amount only as long as the REP'S are in power but the minute a Dem get in power they start with they standard BS about the debt level being way to high, It happend with Clinton when good old Newt who could careless about it when Regan and Bush [the father of W] where in power but when Clinton took over all of a sudden it became his top concern. And with W it appears the GOP is fine with deffecit spending but only when they are in charge. You are defending W by claiming his spending was not as bad because it was a smaller amount. Sorry but it's the same thing no matter the amount it is still spending over what you have and you are just trying to muddie up the water and protecting W. And it appears you are also fuzzy on the level W ran up as it looks like you are not putting the WALL STREET bailout amounts to his account, And yes i know Obama voted yes but it was W and his lap dog who made the case for it and it was W who demanded not rules be attached for what the money can and can't be used for there fore Obama made a stupid error but voting yes and giving W's pals a blank check , But it was still W screwing the US people like he has done for his whole 8 years Jennifer