SRS - must you mutilate your self to become a "real" woman?

[megawatty101]

Originally Posted by hankhavelock

We began this discussion in another thread.

Is it fair that under certain countries' laws you can only become a legal gender woman if you undergo SRS?

I find this as extraordinarily undemocratic and as horrible as the death-penalty.

Why does the hetero society force a trans*woman (or man) to mutilate her (or his) genitalia to be elligable for a new passport... and for the gender identity she really wants?

Why does the hetero society, even in socalled democratic countries, lack the complete realization that gender issues are above the grasp of "normal" politicians and people?

Why can't it just easily be legalized for a trans*woman to be a legal woman without having to undergo SRS if she doestn't want SRS?

Nobody can change her cromosones anyway, so why not focus on her mind instead of on her genitalia?

I challenge the current policy of being evil and undemocratic.

The negros and the gays found a way through hard fight... nobody fought the fight for the transsexual people.

It's time we change the mindset of the hetero politicians.

Transsexuality is a matter to take seriously and to respect. As said, it happens between the ears, not between the legs.

My belief is that any trans*woman who may feel so, should without any hassle from "Jim Crow" be given a legal female gender. And with such a legal female gender, she should have all the rights of any woman - including marrying a man with full rights.

In a true democratic society, she should be able to be a legal woman without anyone forcing her through barbaric physical mutilation - unless she chooses it.

In a true democratic society, she should simply be allowed to be a she if she wishes to.

That's the agenda.

H

I'm starting to think that many transgendered folks are mentally ill and need to disfigure their face in order to fully escape from their former self. It reminds me a little of anoerexics, how they will look in the mirror and see a fat person, and when they are a skeleton, they feel attractive. When someone has scarred their face up like the joker, in their heads they may think they look like a particular celebrity. It's sad, and a little gross.

[cheersm8]

Whilst I agree with most of your points hankhavelock, I also feel that there must be some legeslative intervention and/or control in this matter. Our society would become a joke, if a person could become another, selected gender, on a whim, and then two years down the line, wish to change back again and so on and so on. That is where doctors, support groups, councellors, the legal system, and the politicians, should all work hand in hand.

[Bionca]

Originally Posted by cheersm8

Whilst I agree with most of your points hankhavelock, I also feel that there must be some legeslative intervention and/or control in this matter. Our society would become a joke, if a person could become another, selected gender, on a whim, and then two years down the line, wish to change back again and so on and so on. That is where doctors, support groups, councellors, the legal system, and the politicians, should all work hand in hand.

That's pretty much the situation as we have it. What actually would be the issue with the theoretical people switching gender on a whim?

As it stands, you have doctors, councilors etc. acting a gatekeepers - the thought being that Trans*-ness is so horrid that any and all opportunities to avoid it should be exhausted. Making being a Trans* woman simply a "failed man". Add to that the vague ways laws are written and even when/if we pass muster but don't want/ can't afford SRS we live with conflicting documentation and very limited access to social servises and jobs.

[cheersm8]

Originally Posted by Bionca

What actually would be the issue with the theoretical people switching gender on a whim?

Answer: Fundamental issues, ie a person being in the national womens athletic team for one season, the male team the next and back to the womens for the third season, etc. A woman recieving her pension at 60 ( as it is in the UK ) but a year later, the pension ceases because a mans pensionable age is 65 ( again, as it is in the UK ) Basic issues like that.

[hankhavelock]

Originally Posted by cheersm8

Answer: Fundamental issues, ie a person being in the national womens athletic team for one season, the male team the next and back to the womens for the third season, etc. A woman recieving her pension at 60 ( as it is in the UK ) but a year later, the pension ceases because a mans pensionable age is 65 ( again, as it is in the UK ) Basic issues like that.

Yes, some might misuse such an openness. Regarding pension, that should be equal for women and men anyway.

But the point remains (at least my point) that it should be any body's democratic right to choose their own gender. Quid pro quo.

We now have same-sex-marriages and civil partnerships accepted by most of the civilized countries in the West - not surprisingly USA is limping behind...

But why is it SO difficult to accept, that transsexuality is mental and not physical? It may be physical for those trans*women who feel that way, but that should not be an MO for all others.

There can easily be set up "check-points" to determine whether she's honest or not. Easy!

I live in Indonesia, and Indonesia is certainly not a front runner in the game of democracy - though they try! But it's nok like 20 % of the Indonesian population will apply for a new pass port should this become legal. And in the West it would be so much fewer. So who's being challenged here?

Why not just give in and accept the wonders of a true democracy where ppl make their own sexual and gender choices?

What's the big deal?

Why do we have to go through all this just because we have a slightly different take on things? Why can't I just get married with her here? Why do I have to go back to Denmark to do it? And why will such a civil partnership not be recognized as a true marriage in most parts of the world?

Oh yes, I do get the challenge, that the hetero ppl find in this... but they find the challenge without an explanation. It's so much more easy to keep us freaks away.

I just had a chat with my good old 75 year old trans*woman in Dk. She's still fighting, and the idiotic political establishment still doesn't get it.

I cannot and WILL not accept the lack of empathy. It's so unfair - and so idiotic.

H