Another Disappointment Brought To You By The State Of California...

[new believer]

I hope this does not carry on too much longer ,we're boring the heck out if many.
Your quote...Now imagine that writ large, as in a school. Most public schools for Black students received far less per-capita funding than did their nearby white counterpart schools. And almost without exception, all other facilities and social services for Blacks were of lower quality than those for whites.

"Separate but equal" was also used in social contexts to forbid interracial marriage and underpinned every effort to keep Blacks from exercising the right to vote, by creating "equality" in the right to register to vote, but keeping things "separate" by establishing all sorts of ridiculous hurdles for "colored" registration.

Hence, white privilege. And I haven't even mentioned housing, jobs, or many other things I could bring up.

You may have been right for 1955,about 100 years ago now, but if you read stats from public records,You will find your argument over schools , benifits etc. are outdated.(that's maybe why you used past tense) I work were I come in contact at times with both 'classes' and from personal knowledge, todays social graces bend further toward 'minorities' in every aspect. Maybe that's why more 'whites' which includes gays and transgenders having to work for their wants rather than just saying "I'm not white,so you owe me" and getting more than I have to work for. Please do not try to say it's not so because in my line of work, I travel through various cities and it's the same. One more thing on school funding, All schools get truckloads of money with as much waste and disappearing goods as gov. agencies. The difference you might notice is when more 'things' are wanted in white districts,(I don't want this as a racial debate,but these are facts) then they have loads of drives/fundraisers. This is very rarely or never seen in non white districts.
The few gays I know see and live the same troubles as I. I won't harass the forum talking about reverse discrimination other than it has and does affect myself and others I know in various ways.
My apologies to the readers for this topic and it's emotional touchings. I agree 100% with SMC this is not the place to bring this up.

[smc]

This thread is supposed to be about Prop 8, so I won't continue this other discussion much longer. I'd like to see more discussion about the Boise/Olson federal lawsuit I wrote about earlier, how to organize the fightback against Prop 8, and so on. But you wrote something that I can't let pass without comment:

Originally Posted by new believer

I work were I come in contact at times with both 'classes' and from personal knowledge, todays social graces bend further toward 'minorities' in every aspect. Maybe that's why more 'whites' which includes gays and transgenders having to work for their wants rather than just saying "I'm not white,so you owe me" and getting more than I have to work for. Please do not try to say it's not so because in my line of work, I travel through various cities and it's the same.

I don't know what work you do, but most people in this country are discriminated against -- irrespective of their race -- by virtue of having to sell their labor for a wage. Perhaps you are part of that "class," and if so you most surely suffer at the hands of those who control the wealth.

Facts, though, have a nasty way of getting in the way of perceptions, and they are particularly pesky when they get in the way of people who, because they suffer in this society, perceive incorrectly who is to blame for that suffering. If you think it is minorities who are responsible for your station in life, you are so off base. You have no idea the discrimination they face in every aspect of their lives, every day, that you will never feel. You have no idea how many more opportunities you have to get out of your situation that they do not have, for no reason other than their skin color.

I would stand on a stage before any audience in this country, with you by my side, and debate this with facts at hand and crush your argument. You should rethink your position, my friend, and focus your wrath on the system that oppresses you as a worker, not your fellow workers -- no matter their color -- who are your natural allies in a fight against the misery our system imposes on far too many of us.

And now, let's get back to the California discussion!

[new believer]

don't know what work you do, but most people in this country are discriminated against -- irrespective of their race -- by virtue of having to sell their labor for a wage. Perhaps you are part of that "class," and if so you most surely suffer at the hands of those who control the wealth.

Facts, though, have a nasty way of getting in the way of perceptions, and they are particularly pesky when they get in the way of people who, because they suffer in this society, perceive incorrectly who is to blame for that suffering. If you think it is minorities who are responsible for your station in life, you are so off base. You have no idea the discrimination they face in every aspect of their lives, every day, that you will never feel. You have no idea how many more opportunities you have to get out of your situation that they do not have, for no reason other than their skin color.

I would stand on a stage before any audience in this country, with you by my side, and debate this with facts at hand and crush your argument. You should rethink your position, my friend, and focus your wrath on the system that oppresses you as a worker, not your fellow workers -- no matter their color -- who are your natural allies in a fight against the misery our system imposes on far too many of us.

And now, let's get back to the California discussion!

Now your showing either ignorance or political correctness. I am not alone with having seen first hand the 'system' at work.
And with those close minded close minded statements or ideas, it's not worth my time to respond any further.
PS No I do not blame the black race at large but rather those that abuse the system and those that run the system. The ones that run it, secure their 'power' position by playing up to the ignorant and to those with their hands out for free living. The blacks who 'run' the 'community' do so with their own 'power' ,wealth and importance in mind. If you do not see that,my friend, I suggest you remove your rose coloured glasses or grow up.

[cheersm8]

Going on the assumption that this is a 'free' forum, where members are not bound by any rules relating to race,colour,creed, or sexual orientation, I feel that I am elegible to post a reply to the topic.

Who cares about proposition 8?

Oh dear! What a statement! Full of bigotry? Nah, not really.

Unless you,as an individual are feeling short changed in life by statutory restrictions on your desire for a same sex marriage then whether ss marriages are 'legal' or not is irrelevant. If it is not, then using this matter as an excuse to whinge and moan about 'another restriction on civil liberties' is just another statute 'picked out of a hat' to vent your spleen upon and you could do that with thousands.
I'm not a kid, and I'm not special, and I can honestly say that during the 50 plus years of my time on this planet, not one social statute or reform, good or bad, has ever had any effect on my life or how I desire to live it. However, financial related statutes and reforms, have.
Ask youself this, what difference will it make to your life, whether Bill and Fred, the gay guys next door, or Suzie and Jane, the lesbians accross the road, are married or not?

[smc]

Originally Posted by cheersm8

Ask youself this, what difference will it make to your life, whether Bill and Fred, the gay guys next door, or Suzie and Jane, the lesbians accross the road, are married or not?

It should make only a difference to them!

[Bionca]

Originally Posted by cheersm8

Going on the assumption that this is a 'free' forum, where members are not bound by any rules relating to race,colour,creed, or sexual orientation, I feel that I am elegible to post a reply to the topic.

Who cares about proposition 8?

Oh dear! What a statement! Full of bigotry? Nah, not really.

Unless you,as an individual are feeling short changed in life by statutory restrictions on your desire for a same sex marriage then whether ss marriages are 'legal' or not is irrelevant. If it is not, then using this matter as an excuse to whinge and moan about 'another restriction on civil liberties' is just another statute 'picked out of a hat' to vent your spleen upon and you could do that with thousands.
I'm not a kid, and I'm not special, and I can honestly say that during the 50 plus years of my time on this planet, not one social statute or reform, good or bad, has ever had any effect on my life or how I desire to live it. However, financial related statutes and reforms, have.
Ask youself this, what difference will it make to your life, whether Bill and Fred, the gay guys next door, or Suzie and Jane, the lesbians accross the road, are married or not?

How refreshingly navel-gazingly myopic of you. Here is a new flash - Trans*women in most states are LEGALLY MALE before surgery. In some states even after. Guess what this means for those inconsequential shemales?

You know what I don't give two pints of piss about? Married (hetero) whore-mongers doin' the dirty with gals like me and then treating us like shit come voting time. Some of us would like to settle down and not have to file scads of paperwork to simulate the protections afforded by a 30 minute $30 trip to the courthouse. Those same simulations that are routinely dismissed in courts when the real bad stuff comes down.

Also, the gay guys and the lesbians are part of my greater community. Even if I could be married legally, it's a simple matter of fairness that they have the same recourse I do.

Do I think you are a bigot? Probably not. I am surprised that someone who oggles bodies like mine would be so damn clueless and/or plain flat out self-centered (I gots mine - and I'm not bothered if you gets yours).

Oh and what's up with "Unless you,as an individual are feeling short changed in life by statutory restrictions on your desire for a same sex marriage..."??? You do realize that to the general population, YOU my good man, are the faggiest fag that ever fagged in Faggsville.

[cheersm8]

Originally Posted by Bionca

You know what I don't give two pints of piss about? Married (hetero) whore-mongers doin' the dirty with gals like me and then treating us like shit come voting time.

You do realize that to the general population, YOU my good man, are the faggiest fag that ever fagged in Faggsville.

Thanks for the response Bionca.
I would like to take this opportunity to reflect upon two of the points that you so eloquently made.
1. a 'Married (hetero) whore monger has never in the history of mankind, ever 'done the dirty' with a 'gal like you', at least, not an honest heterosexual, maybe some that hide behind a hetrosexual facade have, but thats their problem.

2. In the UK we don't have faggots, we only have queers, benders, poofs, shirt-lifters, fudge-packers, nancies and homo's but you never really hear the expressions used because nobody in the UK gives a toss about any body elses sexual predilictions. Ok I admit that a few years ago, in the UK, the upper middle classes did used to like having a pet queer as a friend to show off to their social circle, ( well, to be honest, they liked to choose between a pet queer, a pet disabled person or a pet black person ) but even that doesn't happen any more.

[GRH]

I think it's an unwise course of action to push this issue towards the Supreme Court. The Court, as it now stands, is too conservative to reverse policy regarding same-sex marriage. As plausible as 14th Amendment equal protection arguments sound, they do not necessarily hold water based on legal precedence. Homosexuality does not fall under strict scrutiny as a protected status, therefore, the unequal application of the law between different classes of citizenry is not illegal. I'm not suggesting that I like things this way, but that's how the Constitution would be interpretted by the current court.