Barack Obama

randolph · #1 02-26-2009

Although I am a democrat, I believe in fiscal conservatism. I hate debt and always made every effort to get out of it as soon as possible. I carefully invested my savings in conservative stocks and real estate. Now I see my efforts going down the tubes because of fiscal incompetence of government, bankers and speculators. Obama's spending program is terrifying and will very likely result in serious inflation (paying off debt with cheaper dollars). This will further reduce the value of my retirement savings. So what are the alternatives? War got us out of the last depression (which incurred trillions of debt) but we are already in two wars, costing trillions. We are still a rich country with lots of rich republicans. Since this country made them rich isn't it time they give some of it back?

CreativeMind · #2 02-26-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by randolph

We are still a rich country with lots of rich republicans.
Since this country made them rich isn't it time they give some of it back?

Sure, I have no problem with people who are successful "giving back".
Of course, we're also still a country filled with lots of rich Democrats TOO.
So I assume you have no problem sticking THEM with a hefty bill as well, right?

randolph · #3 02-26-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by CreativeMind

Sure, I have no problem with people who are successful "giving back".
Of course, we're also still a country filled with lots of rich Democrats TOO.
So I assume you have no problem sticking THEM with a hefty bill as well, right?

Yes that's OK if they can keep their Prius's.

TracyCoxx · #4 02-26-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by randolph

Although I am a democrat, I believe in fiscal conservatism. I hate debt and always made every effort to get out of it as soon as possible. I carefully invested my savings in conservative stocks and real estate. Now I see my efforts going down the tubes because of fiscal incompetence of government, bankers and speculators. Obama's spending program is terrifying and will very likely result in serious inflation (paying off debt with cheaper dollars). This will further reduce the value of my retirement savings. So what are the alternatives? War got us out of the last depression (which incurred trillions of debt) but we are already in two wars, costing trillions. We are still a rich country with lots of rich republicans. Since this country made them rich isn't it time they give some of it back?

I'm glad you can admit that Obama's spending (don't forget the democrat congress too) is terrifying and will result in serious inflation. I've already admitted that republicans can rack up debt too. But hopefully from my last post you can see that the debts that the dems are racking up is in a whole other class.

Obama's only been there a month, and they've already generated 2.5 times more debt than Bush has during all 8 years of his presidency! Look at the numbers yourself. I'm not lying. All this in one fucking month!

I've been doing some reading and I see what you're talking about with Greenspan. So yeah, I'll admit he's had a hand in the financial melt down. But the other stuff I mentioned about ACORN, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and the CRA are also very much to blame. The real problem that is looming closer is when our debt reaches a point where other countries will no longer accept our IOUs. When they realize we don't have the ability to repay it because we're a nation of consumers rather than producers now. They will eventually make the decision to base their markets on another currency, perhaps the Euro rather than the dollar. At that point, the dollar will collapse, and you can kiss your ass goodbye. At $10 Trillion in debt, we were already putting serious strain on the worth of our IOUs. Obama's instant $2.7 Trillion deficit is probably a shock to the system and no one can say how the world will respond.

This is why myself and others did not want Obama to become president since over a year ago. People called us racists, and they now celebrate the first black president. I couldn't give a flying fuck about that. I'm more concerned with the longevity of this country. He was one of the most liberal members of the senate. I knew he was going to increase the size of government and rack up a ginormous deficit, which would result in inflation and high taxes, but holy shit. I didn't expect it to be this bad. And there's no one who will stop him. Even the republicans in the house are a bunch of pussies. They collaborated with the dems to produce the additional $410B spendulous part II plan that has over 9000 earmarks in it. The republicans are no longer the conservatives we need, and the dems are rabid with power. I don't see anything that's going to keep the dollar from collapsing.

Investing your money in stocks for the long term has always been the best advice because the US economy has been strong. But because of a series of events from the 1930s through the 40s when the USD was designated the international monetary standard, to the 70s when we got off the gold standard, to CRA and to the housing bubble, things are changing. When Obama and others blame all this on the last 8 years alone, it only shows they either have a very limited understanding of what is going on, or they're lying through their teeth.

Sorry for all the doom and gloom, but things ain't pretty right now.

randolph · #5 02-27-2009

Yes, I have to agree with you, the volume of debt is becoming monstrous. To top it off Obama claims it can be reduced by the end of his first term. That's pure fantasy! The "experts" assure us that everything will be fine. Well IF our financial institutions and government had behaved like Canada, we wouldn't be in this mess. The people that got us into this mess are the ones saying they will get us out of it.
Panic will not get us out of this, however. If Obama can keep us from panic then there is a chance we can pull through this. He is the only one I know of who has the charisma to do it.

randolph · #6 02-27-2009

Feb. 27 (Bloomberg) -- So long, Milton Friedman. Hello, James Tobin.

After a three-decade run, the free-market philosophies of Friedman that shaped U.S. policy are being eclipsed by the pro- government ideas of Tobin, the late Yale economist and Nobel laureate who brought John Maynard Keynes into the modern era.

Tobin's stamp is on the $787 billion stimulus signed by President Barack Obama, former students and colleagues say. His philosophies are influencing Austan Goolsbee, a former Tobin student advising Obama, and Ben S. Bernanke, head of the Federal Reserve. Unlike Friedman, Tobin provides guidance for today's problems, said Paul Krugman, a Princeton University economist.

"Hard-line doctrines don't seem very appropriate at this troubled moment," said Krugman, a New York Times columnist who also worked with Tobin at Yale from 1977 to 1979. "Tobin was never a guru in the way Milton Friedman was; he never had legions of Samurai ready to spring to the defense of his theories, but that's part of why he is so relevant right now."

The decision by Bernanke last September to invoke the Fed's emergency powers and put mortgages and other assets on the central bank's balance sheet "is pure Tobin," Krugman said. Bernanke cited Tobin's 1969 essay on monetary theory in a 2004 paper discussing options available to the Federal Reserve for stimulating the economy when interest rates approach zero.

Tobin's experience of the depression as a teenager in the 1930s gave him a lifelong loathing of unemployment.

'Livid' Response

"As a young professor I did a paper where I analyzed the optimal unemployment rate," said Joseph Stiglitz, a professor at Columbia University in New York, who knew Tobin at Yale. "Tobin went livid over the idea. To him the optimal unemployment rate was zero."

Like Keynes, Tobin was an advocate for the role of government in maintaining full employment, said James Galbraith, an economist at the University of Texas in Austin. The current economic and financial crisis has validated that philosophy, said Galbraith, a former Tobin student and the son of the late John Kenneth Galbraith, who was a friend of Tobin.

"It's clear that the position that the federal government has a responsibility for the level of employment, for the economy, has prevailed," Galbraith said. "The position that the Fed can walk away from the level of employment has completely collapsed. That was the absolutely dominant position coming out of the University of Chicago."

In contrast to the Friedman-influenced proponents of tax cuts, deregulation and tight control of the money supply, followers of Tobin are more receptive to government intervention in the economy, including stimulus spending.

Herbert Hoover

"I do not believe that over the next two years, we can make major deficit reduction or balancing the budget a goal," Goolsbee, nominated by Obama to the Council of Economic Advisers, said at a Senate hearing on Jan. 15. "I think that would run the risk of repeating one of the mistakes of Herbert Hoover that led us into Depression."

Goolsbee was Tobin's research assistant at Yale.

Tobin was born in 1918 in Champaign, Illinois, the son of a former reporter who was a publicist for the University of Illinois football team. His high school years during the depression motivated him to study economics at Harvard University in Cambridge, Massachusetts, Tobin said in an essay written for the Nobel committee.

"The miserable failures of capitalist economies in the Great Depression were root causes of worldwide social and political disasters," he wrote. Economics "offered the hope, as it still does, that improved understanding could better the lot of mankind."

Nobel Winners

Tobin, who died in 2002, won the 1981 Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences for his analysis of the effect of financial markets on inflation and employment. His followers have been honored as well. Krugman won the 2008 prize, for work on international trade and economic geography. Stiglitz shared the 2001 award, which cited analyses of markets in which some participants have much better information than others.

randolph · #7 02-27-2009

Wealthy families
Over the past three decades, these families have seen their incomes double and triple while the rest of the country stagnated. Now Obama proposes to increase their tax bill by $12,000 - not even enough to get them back to the rates they were paying when Ronald Reagan left office. This is a very, very modest nod toward fiscal fair play, very much in keeping with Obama's modest optics. You'd have to drink several pitchers of Rush Limbaugh's Kool-Aid to think this counts as soaking the rich.

TracyCoxx · #8 03-01-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by randolph

Panic will not get us out of this, however. If Obama can keep us from panic then there is a chance we can pull through this. He is the only one I know of who has the charisma to do it.

If I remember right, Carter also had charisma. It's what got him elected. It didn't stop the economy from going down the crapper. Charisma helps actors succeed. This is the real world though. We need someone who knows what he's doing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by randolph

Wealthy families
Over the past three decades, these families have seen their incomes double and triple while the rest of the country stagnated. Now Obama proposes to increase their tax bill by $12,000 - not even enough to get them back to the rates they were paying when Ronald Reagan left office. This is a very, very modest nod toward fiscal fair play, very much in keeping with Obama's modest optics. You'd have to drink several pitchers of Rush Limbaugh's Kool-Aid to think this counts as soaking the rich.

What generates more money for the government. Taxing those who make more than $250,000, or keeping taxes as they are and put millions of tax payers back to work? Which is better for the economy?

Small business owners who make around $250,000 - $300,000 are not all that rich. They're the Joe The Plumbers of America. And as for the richer... if you make it too uncomfortable for them here, they will take their business elsewhere. Then they'll each employ thousands of Chinese or Indians, instead of thousands of Americans.

CreativeMind · #9 03-01-2009

[QUOTE=TracyCoxx;69420]If I remember right, Carter also had charisma. It's what got him elected. It didn't stop the economy from going down the crapper. Charisma helps actors succeed. This is the real world though. We need someone who knows what he's doing.

Well, this is the irony of history repeating itself. Carter was elected for one reason and one reason alone: he came on the heels of Nixon/(temporarily Ford) at which point there was that classic "populist mood" that always seems to swept through the nation in a cyclical nature (created by Nixon/Watergate) that the government was bad...it was totally corrupt...the Emperor from Star Wars was running things...thus Washington needed a thorough cleaning.

The only problem being, of course, that while Nixon himself might have been bad for what he did, it didn't mean the WHOLE SYSTEM was corrupt or wrong. As a result, as people voted with a traditional and emotional knee jerk reaction, it was out with temporary Ford and in with good ol' Jimmy. It was out with a genuinely good politician known for working in a true bipartisan way, who had an established Congressional record for getting things done, and in for a guy who simply smiled at you alot. Because -- gosh darn it! -- didn't seeing him smile at you make you FEEL good?

Well, it felt good on Inaugeration Day. Anyone here old enough to remember that? I do. I remember how the press drooled all over Carter and Rosalyn, and praised them for walking the parade route waving to people. Because -- gosh darn it! -- he was smiling! And that MUST mean "goodness" was back in the White House!

Of course, what it REALLY resulted in was a true idiot in the Oval Office. It resulted, as Tracy noted, with having someone in the White House who didn't have a clue. It resulted in double digit inflation. It resulted in double digit unemployment. It resulted in gas rationing. It resulted in a military that was so underfunded that we LITERALLY had to ground portions of the Air Force because we LITERALLY could NOT afford to fly planes because we LITERALLY didn't have the spare parts to fix them if something broke on them. So they HAD to stay grounded in case of emergency, otherwise we were fucked (which we already knew we were). Oh yeah, and on Carter's watch...since he believed in globalism and America not taking a strong stance or involvement on foreign affairs...we had the Iranian Revolution, which laid the foundations of radical Islam rising up -- personified by the Iranian Embassy hostage situation, which sealed Carter's presidency as an utter failure and complete embarrassment.

So, I feel good that Obama has that mega-watt smile and waves alot and--

Oh fuck. What was that I said about history repeating itself???

CreativeMind · #10 03-01-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Small business owners who make around $250,000 - $300,000 are not all that rich. They're the Joe The Plumbers of America. And as for the richer... if you make it too uncomfortable for them here, they will take their business elsewhere. Then they'll each employ thousands of Chinese or Indians, instead of thousands of Americans.

This is what is utter lunacy about the Obama economic plan.
It's like a dog chasing his own tail that just runs in place and in circles.

The economy is bad, so Obama wants you to go out and spend money to get it going again. But the economy is bad because people have ALREADY spent their money -- heck, they've OVER spent and are deeply in debt. Someone on TV made a brilliant analogy to Obama and his plan, where Obama is a husband and the American people are the wife. The commentator noted it's like a husband coming home, only to find his wife sitting at the kitchen table, pulling her hair out, frantically trying to pay their monthly bills. And the wife says, "We have no money left in our checking account! How are we ever going to pay these bills?"

At which point the husband says "You're right, honey. We have to get out of this hole we're in. We really need to rebuild our savings account. Come on, let's go to the store and buy a few plasma TVs. THAT ought to do the trick!"

randolph · #11 03-02-2009

Just to set the record straight on The Shah of Iran. From Wikipedia.
The Shah came to power during World War II after an Anglo-Soviet invasion forced the abdication of his father, Reza Shah. Mohammad Reza Shah's rule oversaw the nationalization of the Iranian oil industry under the prime ministership of Mohammad Mossadegh. During the Shah's reign, Iran celebrated 2,500 years of continuous monarchy since the founding of the Persian Empire by Cyrus the Great. His White Revolution, a series of economic and social reforms intended to transform Iran into a global power, succeeded in modernizing the nation, nationalizing many natural resources and extending suffrage to women, among other things. However, the decline of the traditional power of the Shi'a clergy due to parts of the reforms, increased opposition.

While a Muslim himself, the Shah gradually lost support from the Shi'a clergy of Iran, particularly due to his strong policy of modernization, secularization and conflict with the traditional class of merchants known as bazaari, and recognition of Israel. Clashes with the religious right increased communist activity and a 1953 period of political disagreements with Mohammad Mossadegh, eventually leading to Mossadegh's ousting, caused an increasingly autocratic rule. In 2000, U.S. Secretary of State Madeleine K. Albright stated:

"In 1953 the United States played a significant role in orchestrating the overthrow of Iran's popular Prime Minister, Mohammed Massadegh. The Eisenhower Administration believed its actions were justified for strategic reasons; but the coup was clearly a setback for Iran's political development. And it is easy to see now why many Iranians continue to resent this intervention by America in their internal affairs."[1]

randolph · #12 03-02-2009

And finally, Rush Limbaugh generated huge applause at CPAC for labeling the White House agenda as a "bastardization of the Constitution." He proceeded to say, "We believe that the preamble to the Constitution contains an inarguable truth that we are all endowed by our creator with certain inalienable rights, among them life, liberty, freedom, and the pursuit of happiness." Given his interest in the "bastardization of the Constitution," it's worth noting that these words aren't in the preamble to the Constitution.

TracyCoxx · #13 03-23-2009

Damn. I hate being right about this stuff....

Quote:

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

The real problem that is looming closer is when our debt reaches a point where other countries will no longer accept our IOUs. When they realize we don't have the ability to repay it because we're a nation of consumers rather than producers now. They will eventually make the decision to base their markets on another currency, perhaps the Euro rather than the dollar. At that point, the dollar will collapse, and you can kiss your ass goodbye. At $10 Trillion in debt, we were already putting serious strain on the worth of our IOUs. Obama's instant $2.7 Trillion deficit is probably a shock to the system and no one can say how the world will respond.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123780272456212885.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wall Street Journal

China Takes Aim at Dollar
BEIJING -- China called for the creation of a new currency to eventually replace the dollar as the world's standard, proposing a sweeping overhaul of global finance that reflects developing nations' growing unhappiness with the U.S. role in the world economy.

History will show that while the problem has been growing for decades, it was Obama's administration that delivered the crushing blow to America. Hang on people... this is going to suck.

TracyCoxx · #14 03-25-2009

Looks like the love fest is ending between the rest of the world and Obama.

STRASBOURG, France - A top European Union politician on Wednesday slammed U.S. plans to spend its way out of recession as "a way to hell."

Czech Prime Minister Mirek Topolanek, whose country currently holds the EU presidency, told the European Parliament that President Barack Obama's massive stimulus package and banking bailout "will undermine the stability of the global financial market."

Quote:

Originally Posted by hankhavelock

And regarding why it is "brilliant" that a black man gets the presidency? Not only is that in itself of immense historical value for all non-whites (in the whole world), but it is a break with former times inherent racism and is very true to the original American spirit of no judgement based on any thing but talent. Aside from that, I belive his policy is promising. He is a bridge builder and can hopefully mend some of the terrible wounds that your friend George Bush amBUSHED this world with.

Yes. He may be tossing our economy, along with the global economy into the crapper, but at least he's black! Wohoo!

I think in 4 years (I can't see it lasting more than 4) we'll all be saying:

Quote:

Originally Posted by hankhavelock

He has in general made it considerably harder to be a Westener anywhere in the world.... He's merely a dumb guy who never should have been elected... and now he'll laugh his ass off and ride into the sunshine to collect his fat pension, apparently totally unaware of the fact that he has left the world so much worse off than [four] years ago.

TGirl lover · #15 03-25-2009

I had high hopes for Obama. Especially since we finally got rid of that dumbass Bush, but now I'm very disappointed. Obama is driving this economy even farther into the ground. Should have voted for McCain. Just hope he is only a 1 term pres.

hankhavelock · #16 03-25-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by TGirl lover

I had high hopes for Obama. Especially since we finally got rid of that dumbass Bush, but now I'm very disappointed. Obama is driving this economy even farther into the ground. Should have voted for McCain. Just hope he is only a 1 term pres.

Well, what did you expect? Give the man a chance, please. He has to clean up 8 years' mess after the most horribly incompetent socalled president that America ever had... Barack's task is tuff... but he'll do it. Don't worry. But he still has Republicans and even Democrats against him in Congress, and the financial crisis is so severe that it cannot be undone in three months...

So be glad you didn't vote for McCain or any other Republican, for that matter. Give Barack a chance to get his plan in motion. Read his book "The Audacity of Hope" - that's well written reading and will give you a better knowledge of Barack's plan. Trust me, Barack is a thoroughly good guy and talented above measure!

H

TracyCoxx · #17 03-25-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by hankhavelock

Well, what did you expect? Give the man a chance, please. He has to clean up 8 years' mess after the most horribly incompetent socalled president that America ever had...

As a non-US citizen, I don't expect you to know the ins and outs of the cause of our financial meltdown, and all you have to fall back on is your trusty "Bush Did It" mantra, but it's not anywhere near that simple. I don't know how much you know about the US government, but you may be surprised to hear that it's not made up of only one person. There's a congress too, made up of a house and senate. That's the legislative branch. There's also a judiciary branch.

You're focusing on the guy who has, for 7 of his 8 years in office, been warning congress about the financial instability of Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. His last year in office, he warned them 17 times. Youtube is full of videos of congressmen insisting that Freddie Mac and Frannie Mae were financially sound. The main culprits are Carter, Clinton, and Congress for the Community Reinvestment Act (CRA), and Alan Greenspan for artificially creating the housing bubble. btw, you can't just blame Bush for Greenspan. He was in office during the terms of several presidents. I think most of this has already been discussed several times in this thread. I know... it's not as trendy as saying it's that idiot Bush, but you know those pesky facts. They keep rearing their ugly heads.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hankhavelock

Barack's task is tuff... but he'll do it. Don't worry. But he still has Republicans and even Democrats against him in Congress, and the financial crisis is so severe that it cannot be undone in three months...

I certainly don't expect him to turn the crisis around in three months, or even a year. But call me crazy, if our problem is the collapse of mortgage companies who lent money to uncreditworthy people, let's NOT give $3.5 billion to the group who led the push for CRA. (BTW, since that same group is being charged in 14 states for voter fraud, let's NOT have them working on the census either.)

You want me to give Obama a chance, when his strategy is Carter's failed financial policy on steroids. That strategy has already had a chance. It didn't work. The republicans are getting a lot of blame by the conservatives in this country for not being conservative. Yes, they did rack up some debt when they had control of congress, but in one month, Obama and the democratic congress has racked up 2.5 times the amount of debt raised during all 8 years of Bush's presidency, including debt from Bush's wall street bailout. And they're still talking about more trillion dollar bailouts to come. The world isn't going to keep buying our debt, and when we had a debt of $10 trillion, Obama had the NERVE to expect the world to fork up another $2.5 trillion. Like the top european union official said, Obama's policies will undermine the stability of the global market. That's not Sean Hanity talking. That's the Czech prime minister. And it's also China's central bank governor. But I know you'll go right a head and tell me that the best way out of debt is borrow another $2.5 trillion. Makes perfect sense for an enlightened person such as yourself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hankhavelock

So be glad you didn't vote for McCain or any other Republican, for that matter. Give Barack a chance to get his plan in motion. Read his book "The Audacity of Hope" - that's well written reading and will give you a better knowledge of Barack's plan. Trust me, Barack is a thoroughly good guy and talented above measure!

He may very well be a good guy, but he's in way over his head. McCain isn't on the top of most republican's list, but I know he wouldn't implement strategies like Obama has that would put the country and the world economy in this much danger. I'm not going to read about the audacity of a community organizer who thinks he can be president. I'm reading about how to stay afloat when the dollar collapses.

TracyCoxx · #18 03-26-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by TGirl lover

I had high hopes for Obama. Especially since we finally got rid of that dumbass Bush, but now I'm very disappointed. Obama is driving this economy even farther into the ground. Should have voted for McCain. Just hope he is only a 1 term pres.

Democrats should have picked Hilary as their candidate. Right now, I would love to have her as president. And she's not even on my top 500 list.

sesame · #19 03-26-2009

Ok, Creativemind, lets assume for a moment that America's economy is shaking right now;and lets also assume that this group of other countries including China buys US debt!! And then in one strategic sweep they cause a controlled meltdown of US economy, just like what happened to USSR! Is that possible? China is very ambitious now and its not a friend of America. If US falls as a superpower, guess who will be the next Big Boss? Do I sound like a conspiracy theorist?

Ridiculous, or should I say, Riddiqulous? :D

Are the American politicians playing nine pins with the fate of their own country? Have the Democrats gone mad overnight with Obama on the lead? And are the "sharp witted & patriotic" Republicans watching everything sucking thumbs? Is Obama hell bent on a meltdown of the US? Or Is he keen on fixing the already tattered economy presented to him by Bush? Is the media trying to frame him by making the public misunderstand his plan with distorted facts and figures?

hankhavelock · #20 03-25-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by TracyCoxx

Looks like the love fest is ending between the rest of the world and Obama.

STRASBOURG, France — A top European Union politician on Wednesday slammed U.S. plans to spend its way out of recession as "a way to hell."

Czech Prime Minister Mirek Topolanek, whose country currently holds the EU presidency, told the European Parliament that President Barack Obama's massive stimulus package and banking bailout "will undermine the stability of the global financial market."

Yes. He may be tossing our economy, along with the global economy into the crapper, but at least he's black! Wohoo!

I think in 4 years (I can't see it lasting more than 4) we'll all be saying:

Honey, you lovely thingy, why don't you flirt up Sean Hannity... I'm sure you'd have TONS in common... ;-)

And it's ironic, that a Republican talks about ANYONE "tossing our economy". You had 8 years, baby - 8 blissful years of war mongering and stupidity and a total anti-branding of the whole f****** Western world thanks to your "lovely" joke of a president. So excuse me, darling, but you had your shots and BLEW it.

Now let's get serious and get rid of the incompetents.

At least give Barack a chance, ok? I know you hate his liberal politics from deep within you - the same way I thoroughly detest the neanderthal politics of the right wing... but now you have a new president. At least give him a chance to clean up the MESS that your beloved Geo Bush made.

Be decent here.

You guys love so much to do the theatrical socalled patriotism with hands over heart and "My fellow Americans..." and all that shit...

Now PROVE it, baby! Prove that you ARE a fellow American, and not only to the ultra right wing of your great country, but to the whole world...

Be decent and fair. And support your president in his difficult task.

Peace!

H

CreativeMind · #21 03-26-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by hankhavelock

And it's ironic, that a Republican talks about ANYONE "tossing our economy". You had 8 years, baby - 8 blissful years of war mongering and stupidity and a total anti-branding of the whole f****** Western world thanks to your "lovely" joke of a president. So excuse me, darling, but you had your shots and BLEW it. Now let's get serious and get rid of the incompetents.

At least give Barack a chance, ok? I know you hate his liberal politics from deep within you - the same way I thoroughly detest the neanderthal politics of the right wing...but now you have a new president. At least give him a chance to clean up the MESS that your beloved Geo Bush made.

The IRONY to Hank's Euro-centric vision of how Americans should feel or treat Obama being that it's actually opposite to how most Americans feel at this point.

First, for all of Hank's labeling Bush as a "joke of president", its fascinating that Obama's job approval rating has literally plummeted over his first 60 days in office. In fact, he now ranks LOWER than Bush did at this same point in time when Bush had been elected. Not to mention, Obama's disapproval numbers are soaring -- in fact, one poll has him at 46% which means he's now a mere 4 points away from literally having HALF of the country officially regretting his election and wishing McCain was in the Oval Office instead.

The second irony -- again in direct contrast to Hank's view as a non-American -- is that he somehow thinks Republicans are "war mongers" or "stupid" and no one wants them back in power. Yet again, that's the irony of him being the outsider and having a viewpoint ON America versus the rest of us actually living here and BEING Americans where we see things much differently. Case in point (which I'm sure is going to make Hank's jaw drop since he seems to blame Bush and the Republicans for everything) is that right now the Republicans are actually TIED with the Democrats in overall public opinion ratings. And in fact, in upcoming key elections the Republicans are now actually taking LEADS in the polls because Americans have come to realize "Oh no! What the FUCK were we thinking electing a Democratic president and putting him together with an ALL Democratic Congress so they could do whatever they wanted, no questions asked? We have to get more Republicans elected FAST or the Democrats are going to shit this country up big time!"

Case in point: here we are in the midst of a global economic meltdown, and yet Chris Dodd is up for re-election as Connecticut's Senator. He's the head of the Senate banking committee, so you'd think the average person would want to be SURE he was re-elected to have a consistent voice in power, not to mention that since he's a staunch democrat he'd obviously be a key supporter of Obama...

...And yet as of today, a virtual no-name unknown whom the Republicans are putting up against Dodd is LEADING in the polls.

Oh! And as for Hank's view that Bush was a joke of a president who "blew it", even IF you want to blame Bush for walking out of the White House and leaving behind $1 trillion deficit, it's laughable that you think Obama is somehow better when he's now officially TRIPLED that same number in a mere 60 days -- even worse, some estimates put the number at a NINE TRILLION DEFICIT several years out and once Obama is out of office, at which point our kids and our grandkids will be stuck paying for his idiotic socialist dreams and his buffoonish financial decisions.

CreativeMind · #22 03-26-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by hankhavelock

Honey, you lovely thingy, why don't you flirt up Sean Hannity. I'm sure you'd have TONS in common... ;-)
Now let's get serious and get rid of the incompetents.

At least give Barack a chance, ok? I know you hate his liberal politics from deep within you - the same way I thoroughly detest the neanderthal politics of the right wing... but now you have a new president. At least give him a chance to clean up the MESS that your beloved Geo Bush made.

Here's the bottom line truth, regardless of how Hank and other Euros feel AS outsiders.
Truth be told, this how AMERICANS now are starting to feel and I'll use a blunt analogy so there's NO mistaking my point.

People ALWAYS wake up from the bender they were on the night before. They may be hungover a bit, but there's that infamous moment when they suddenly realize "Oh shit! Who's that laying there asleep in the bed next to me? What the hell did I DO last night?!?"

The point being that while Euros may love him, here at home Americans are quickly realizing that Obama -- who now can't even speak coherent sentences unless a teleprompter is feeding them to him -- won the election for the simple reason that he was the "feel good" candidate of the moment. He was the slick looking and talking politician that people picked up at the bar, got drunk with, took to bed, and thus he got elected for the most ridiculous of reasons ("Look he's young and cute! What a smile! Look he's black! If we elect him, we can say we're not racists once and for all!"). The only problem is, now Americans are waking up from their bender, they're looking at the person still asleep in bed next to them -- most of all, they're seeing their taxes going UP, their savings going DOWN, and Obama talking about social changes they DON'T believe in...

...And they're now realizing Obama really did dupe them. He really was the equivalent of that hotty who LET YOU pick her up in a bar on election night, when you were in a drunken stupor, and suddenly now...when you're awake and consciously thinking about what you've done...you're suddenly worried and wondering if you stupidly caught an STD while screwing around carelessly the night before. In short, now that "fun time" and your bender is over, you realize you're back to real life and the serious issues that life involves.

Worst of all, as Obama soars our deficit, he's now on the verge of becoming Jimmy Carter Part 2 -- and yes, even in recent polls Americans STILL think Carter was a WORSE president than Bush ever was. That's pretty telling when you consider where Obama may end up on the historical ladder, if he does become another Carter.

Here in Hollywood -- which is certainly Democratic territory and extremely left-leaning -- lately I've seen a bumper sticker on several cars while I've been out driving. I'm not sure where it comes from, but I've run across it several times now. But because this is SUCH the democratic territory, it made me raise an eye brow and laugh. It simply says: Yeah, I voted for him. I'm sorry, America -- where the "o" in "sorry" is the famous Obama "o" from his campaign posters (where you saw the American flag flowing inside).

In other words, even here in democratic territory, the point of the sticker is:
"I'm sorry I fell for it! The rest of you were right!"