Where are you politically?

[marlowe]

Originally Posted by Bionca

No wonder people think Americans are nuts!

I don't think Americans are nuts. Traditionally the European view has been that mainstream American politics is a fairly narrow spectrum, ie. not a lot of difference between the two main parties. This is changing, in part because European politics have become more narrow and perhaps American politics have become more polarised.

The question is whether the right's idea of minimal goverment is just a way of not dealing with the more difficult issues of poverty, health care, minority rights, etc. whilst discretely favouring their own (the rich). And for the left, will interventionist policies deliver genuine benefits or simply give more control and power to the politicians.

I'm optimistic about American politics. This is the country that gave us "The Rights of Man".

[ila]

Originally Posted by marlowe

I'm optimistic about American politics. This is the country that gave us "The Rights of Man".

Democracy, as we know it, had its origins in ancient Athens. Although it was not a truly democratic equal rights society. Women had no rights as we know such rights today and Athens still had free men and slaves. Rome for a while had a form of democracy, but was still not an equal society. For the true origins of modern democracy you should look closer to home Marlowe. England is the model for all modern democratic societies. It is through many struggles and travails that the English endured and persisted in that gave the world modern democracy. The 'Rights of Man' actually started with the Magna Carta, but that was only just a beginning and didn't, in and of itself, bring about true democracy and equality.

Ah, I love being American! I can laugh at my own country - this silly republic in which democracy comes in the form of voting not for the presidential candidate you like the most, but the one you dislike the least. I mean, I have no illusions about the outcome. My feeling is, be it Obama or McCain, our next President is going to fuck up, BIG TIME. LBJ-Tricky Dick-Ford (Not a Lincoln)-Jimmy-The Gipper-Old Read My Lips-Bill-Dubya. It's a cycle of executive insanity!
On the other hand, being a centrist is a bitch! I'm constantly caught in the crossfire between liberals and conservatives.

[brianna]

I'm in favor of Barrack, though I can vacilate between Rep and Dem. I really think the US needs to mature. It's still a very young country in comparison to others, and many other countries have adopted more socialistic policies, to the betterment of society (in some respects anyway).

As a Libra, I always find myself in the middle.

Oh yeah, and I believe the Republicans have to let go of their stranglehold on the Christian/Catholic segment. The bible drives too much policy.

Hank, did you really start a political thread? Guess I fell right into it.:D

[RedderZNZ]

I'm a socialist-to-communist! Government control over everything! Planned economy, equal share for everyone!

MWA-HA-HA! ALL HAIL MEGATRON!!!

[marlowe]

Originally Posted by brianna

.....Hank, did you really start a political thread? Guess I fell right into it.:D

I think Hank had a spare half hour between dates.

[hankhavelock]

Originally Posted by brianna

I'm in favor of Barrack...

Hank, did you really start a political thread? Guess I fell right into it.:D

You bet I did!

And I cant wait for Barrack to take over that abused office!

We've now all (in this world) been tormented for eight years by probably the most amazing example of American governmental stupidity and a scary degree of ultra right wing horror, branded by "Patriotism, God and Glory..." and a degree of scare-vocabulary that we have to go back to the nineteenfifties to find matches for.

I hope that the pathetic, incompetent George Bush and his "administrasi-horribili" is the for ever LAST example of electoral corruption and right-wing bending the rules in the name of (their) mammon and suppression of democracy in your country. You guys should take the bunch of criminal ass holes to court... but how can you? These guys own it all... and you just let them.

But Obama will restore it all - it will not be easy for him, and the expectations will be unrealistic, but he's the man!



H

[marlowe]

Originally Posted by hankhavelock

I hope that the pathetic, incompetent George Bush and his "administrasi-horribili" is the for ever LAST example of electoral corruption and right-wing bending the rules in the name of (their) mammon and suppression of democracy in your country.H

Stirring stuff and a fine turn of phrase.

[ila]

Originally Posted by hankhavelock

And I cant wait for Barrack to take over that abused office!

But Obama will restore it all - it will not be easy for him, and the expectations will be unrealistic, but he's the man!

H

I wonder if Obama will ever make a stand on any of his principles and beliefs. He seems to bend whichever way the wind blows. He has opinions until they become unpopular and then he changes his mind. He supports people until they start to become a political liability at which time he drops them like a hot potato. He says things in private that he later repudiates in public. The Democrats would have been better off nominating Hillary as their presidential candidate. She's principled, strong, knowledgeable, and definitely not a jellyfish.

[marlowe]

Originally Posted by ila

I wonder if Obama will ever make a stand on any of his principles and beliefs. ..... He supports people until they start to become a political liability at which time he drops them like a hot potato. .....

Obama may not be too pleased when news of Hank's support goes public. I can see the headlines now -

"PREACHER OF THE POWER OF TRANSSEXUAL LOVING PASSIONATELY BACKS OBAMA" Shock horror!

[hankhavelock]

Originally Posted by brianna

I'm in favor of Barrack, though I can vacilate between Rep and Dem. I really think the US needs to mature. It's still a very young country in comparison to others, and many other countries have adopted more socialistic policies, to the betterment of society (in some respects anyway).

As a Libra, I always find myself in the middle.

Oh yeah, and I believe the Republicans have to let go of their stranglehold on the Christian/Catholic segment. The bible drives too much policy.

Hank, did you really start a political thread? Guess I fell right into it.:D

Brianna, in all respect... this is really not about socialism (I'm not a socialist at all). It's merely about a politic that takes ALL citizens into concideration. It's about DEMOCRACY and treating every citizen with respect and helping the ones not so fortunate like the rest to a nice life as well.

It's about social compassion and accepting the fact that ppl like George Bush and his hoods will NEVER care for any one but them selves and their hypocritical born again Christian companions...

In the end it's about Christian values... the Christian values that neither the Pope nor George Bush monopolized.

This is all about compassion and treating thy neighbour as you would want your neighbour to treat you.

"Solidarity" is not a socialist term - it's a term that is universal and necessary for any society to move on as a society.

It's about being open and willing to accept! And to lend a little help when needed!

H

[hankhavelock]

In all fairness... not ALL Republicans have been dumb, ultra right wing idiots with only their own corrupt agenda... Ronald Reagan was, in spite of the very unfair criticism, probably the best placed American president ever!

By my political book Ronald Reagan paved the way for detente - he truly and personally disliked the nuclear threat and acted on it. Unfairly it was the stupid current president's dad who closed the deal, but it was all done by Ronald Reagan. The fact that he never got a Nobel peace prize is to me one of the most gross political mistakes ever.

H

[sesame]

What is "aggressive peacekeeping"?
(Farting noiselessly)
What is maintenance of the "balance of power"?
(Keeping the lion's share for myself )
What is making rules?
(Breaking them blatantly every now and then, as needed)
What is unleashing agents of disruption on my neighbours?
(They are growing fat, exercise will keep 'em busy)
Why start a new crusade in modern times, instead of sewing up religious hatred?
(Its all about God and all Glory goes to him. I only keep the oily part )
Man, politics is bathed in corruption, conspiracy and innocent blood!
(Where there is meat, there always will be vultures)
What happens to dear old Buchy Buchy?
(Ah, him! He has gotten a whole theme-park reserved in Hell.)
Absolute power corrupts absolutely, is it true?
(Only if I'm scared of losing power all the time... and try to keep it forever! Power is like money. It comes and it goes.)

[brianna]

Originally Posted by hankhavelock

Brianna, in all respect... this is really not about socialism (I'm not a socialist at all). It's merely about a politic that takes ALL citizens into concideration. It's about DEMOCRACY and treating every citizen with respect and helping the ones not so fortunate like the rest to a nice life as well.

It's about social compassion and accepting the fact that ppl like George Bush and his hoods will NEVER care for any one but them selves and their hypocritical born again Christian companions...

In the end it's about Christian values... the Christian values that neither the Pope nor George Bush monopolized.

This is all about compassion and treating thy neighbour as you would want your neighbour to treat you.

"Solidarity" is not a socialist term - it's a term that is universal and necessary for any society to move on as a society.

It's about being open and willing to accept! And to lend a little help when needed!

H

Very well said, Hank. I agree whole-heartedly. The reference to socialism was only in relation to the balance between left and right wing philosophy & policy. Having free enterprise, but with enough social conscience to not let it get out of hand, where the wealth is held by a disproportionate few, and the middle is left struggling, and the poor are left with little hope, not to mention that hundreds of thousands of jobs are allowed to be outsourced overseas.

Always refreshing to read your posts. Keep it up. and hard...

[marlowe]

Originally Posted by ila

.....For the true origins of modern democracy you should look closer to home Marlowe. England is the model for all modern democratic societies. It is through many struggles and travails that the English endured and persisted in that gave the world modern democracy. The 'Rights of Man' actually started with the Magna Carta, but that was only just a beginning and didn't, in and of itself, bring about true democracy and equality.

Hi Ila

I was referring to "The Rights of Man" by Thomas Paine. He promoted liberty and human equality as inalienable rights and his writings were a big influence on the American Revolution and the subsequent Declaration of Independence. Also, I believe it was Paine who first suggested the name 'United States of America' for the new nation.

Strictly speaking I'm not right in saying that work came out of America. Paine was an Englishman who emigrated to America. What I meant was that the underlying foundation of American politics are based on ideas of liberty and equality, and that's a reason to be optimistic.

[ila]

Originally Posted by marlowe

Hi Ila
I was referring to "The Rights of Man" by Thomas Paine.

Hi Marlowe,

I know Thomas Paine and I'm not a big fan of his writings. His arguments can be very polarizing as in his book 'The Age of Reason' (although I haven't read the full book, only extracts).