Meditation and Dreams: Share your experience

[GRH]

Originally Posted by sesame

Tell me about it. Let us share our experiences in meditation
Share your interesting Dreams....

Which does the greatest good among the things mentioned below?
1) Faith in God?
2) Non-Believer Sceptic
3) Service to Mankind
4) Live in Harmony with Nature
5) Scientific invention
6) Getting Rich
7) Self Discovery and introspection

1) Self Discovery and Introspection-- looking within should lead to looking without. By discovering the true nature of our lower self, we discover the higher Self...

2) Faith in God(?) or some conception of the divine-- by breaking down the illusion of self and becoming enlightened to Self, we begin to realize a universal harmony, a cosmic dance which we are just the most minute part of and we realize that our own meaning and existence is part of this cosmic ebb and flow...We seek outside of ourself and have faith in something greater...

Herein, 3 & 4) Living in harmony with nature coupled with serving mankind-- this arises as our own shackes of ego break down. By having faith outside of our own self, we become swollen with compassion and love, we seek to express this divine love through positive karma, by both helping others and living in harmony with the universe.

As for Getting Rich or Scientific Inventions, these may have their place, and certainly, wealth and science can bring great advances to mankind. But these are largely ego driven pursuits, thus of less interest to me. The mind of a skeptic is very beautiful, skepticism represents a certain amount of rationality, and the skeptics have much to add to any discussion. We are all pictures that come in different frames.

As to meditation, dreams, etc. my own spirituality has been influenced by psychoactive substances and an almagamtion of Eastern and Western thought. My dreams are sometimes crazy and would merit several more posts, time allowing. That said, I almost always dream lucidly.

[sesame]

A Wise Man once told me that in dreams, we (the soul) gets dissociated from the physical body and moves around. Once I fell asleep while trying to meditate. While meditating, I was in savasana (the corpse posture); ie, lying down, very relaxed all over the body, all muscles loose... no worry left in the mind... a certain feeling creeps in the brain like it is being washed with cold water. It is better than real sleep, as the body and mind are both relaxed.

Anyway, I fell asleep and entered a dreaming state. I saw the exact room, the mat I use for yoga, there was light in the room. I was floating midway in the air. As I looked down, I saw ME, lying spread eagled below! I looked back at my own face from above and wondered, "I am dreaming". Then I tried to float out of the window, into the outside world. But something was pulling me back into the room. Soon I was sucked back into the flesh body lying on the mat. And I woke up.
This dream made me rethink a lot of my fixed notions, and I dont consider this a false imagination of the mind. It was too realistic and philosophical.

[sesame]

Originally Posted by sesame

But the questions here are:
1) does he also forget of being human?
2) does he also forget of ever having a body?
3) If the Ego is dissolved, then who is asking the questions?
4) And to whom?
5) If there is no ego or previous memory, then where from comes the concept of "who" (=identity), where (=place), I am (=existence), when (=time) and finally, I (=ego)
Without any ego, there is no such thing as I, we, here, AND you, there, this or that. With an ego, there arises a feeling of separation from the rest of the universe. Me (I) and the rest of the world.
The bubble of I-ness or ego differentiates me from the outer world.

Even though I support Vedanta theory, I support the I-ness theory of Yoga and stand aside from Vedanta in the final stage. I dont want to be dissolved or annihilated into the Infinite. I wish to retain my separate identity. But... we can discuss about that at a later stage.

Originally Posted by GRH

At its purest, ego dissolution negates the concept of "human" and "body" alike. Even the premise of asking questions becomes silly. You become the question, and you become the answer simultaneously. You become all that ever was, is, and is to be. "You" (in the formal sense") simply ARE...Simply EXISTING.

Here we will diverge, as the final implications of Vedanta I hold close and have experienced. This is where I have gotten into conflict with much Western religion, that perptetual attachment to identity. I think many come close, but they wish to deny the final truth, out of their own selfish desire to retain that fundamental sense of ego...That fundamental sense of being something "special" and "separate." That said, it is a nice attachment to cling to, and I fault nobody for it. But I'm not convinced that "I" in the sense that I currently perceive myself to be will ever exist beyond this moment. The remainder of this philosophical discussion would probably be better suited to your meditation thread, Sesame.

The Vedanta says that the Absolute Consciousness, Brahman, being one without any second is the only thing that really exists beyond all this illusion. Since this Impersonal All-pervading Entity is the source of all bliss, it is the purpose of all individual souls to finally merge into this Brahman and lose their unique identities. The analogy is this...

Individual souls, like you and me, while investigating the Nature of Truth, go nearer and nearer to the Purest state of Consciousness which is Brahman. It is like: tiny toys made of salt, enter the vast ocean full of salty water, trying to measure the depth of the ocean. In doing so, they dissolve into the ocean and become part of it.

God or Brahman is pure and infinite Joy, immeasurable Love and timeless in nature and the Source of everything. But He or Brahman (in Vedanta) is not God in the sense we are used to. It is beyond that scope. God has the World and Devotees with him to rule over. But Brahman is all inclusive. Where Brahman is, there is no second being or object, there is only Brahman. Nobody meets Brahman, but merges into Him. The Worlds dont exist in Brahman. It is Absolute Unity into the Source. (beyond name, form or duality). Advaita Vedanta= Non-Dual Essence of the Vedas.
Therefore, some proponents of Yoga have said, Brahman is a mountain of sugar and I am an ant who loves to taste sugar. I have no intention of becoming the mountain, but to taste it for ever and ever. This can only be done by purifying one's consciousness to the finest degree, but retaining some king of ego to maintain a pure yet, separate identity. The Yogi's pure ego is not to be confused with the desire-infested ego of a worldly man. It is called Nija-bodh. Nija= I am, bodh= consciousness. It is like a fine bubble that allows him to maintain a separate identity or personality in spite of being so close to All-pervading God. The Yogi's ego is a means of self protection from permanent dissolution.
I prefer the Yogi's fate more than that of the annihilated Vedanta Philosopher. God was, Is, and will be forever. What benefit is there if my identity merges and vanishes into Him? There will be no change. So, why not maintain a separate identity and yet enjoy His immensity? Is that not a better choice?

Vedanta's ultimate state: Brahmavid Brahmaiva bhavati. => The knower of Brahman becomes Brahman Himself. (ie, the small ego merges into the Infinite)
Yogi's Ultimate state: Kaivalya. Keval= Only. It means I become free from dependance of everything. The objects of the world, nature, universe, Gods, whoever,...I dont need anything. I become a Liberated soul, free from everything forever.

From my point of view, the Yogi remains and yet is free.
And the Vedanta Philosopher becomes free, but remains no more

[ila]

Originally Posted by sesame

A Wise Man once told me that in dreams, we (the soul) gets dissociated from the physical body and moves around. Once I fell asleep while trying to meditate. While meditating, I was in savasana (the corpse posture); ie, lying down, very relaxed all over the body, all muscles loose... no worry left in the mind... a certain feeling creeps in the brain like it is being washed with cold water. It is better than real sleep, as the body and mind are both relaxed.

Anyway, I fell asleep and entered a dreaming state. I saw the exact room, the mat I use for yoga, there was light in the room. I was floating midway in the air. As I looked down, I saw ME, lying spread eagled below! I looked back at my own face from above and wondered, "I am dreaming". Then I tried to float out of the window, into the outside world. But something was pulling me back into the room. Soon I was sucked back into the flesh body lying on the mat. And I woke up.
This dream made me rethink a lot of my fixed notions, and I dont consider this a false imagination of the mind. It was too realistic and philosophical.

Sesame, I have read about others that experienced this same thing. It must feel quite eerie upon waking and then remembering an out of body exprience. What were your conscious thoughts and feelings upon realizing that you had such an out of body experience?

[sesame]

Originally Posted by ila

Sesame, I have read about others that experienced this same thing. It must feel quite eerie upon waking and then remembering an out of body exprience. What were your conscious thoughts and feelings upon realizing that you had such an out of body experience?

ila, it felt great. Strange, unfamiliar, but thrilling. I want it to happen again and again. The reason behind such a wish is... people are accustomed to most phenomena of the known world. As as the years go by, they gradually become bored and tired of having the same experiences again and again. Its much like a broken record playing away the same tune. So when we face some hitherto unfamiliar phenomenon, we may feel fear, trauma, revolt... whatever, but still get attracted to it at the same time. Thrill, romance, twist, amazement... give us the punch we need to emotionally rejuvenate.

Another time another dream. This time I was consciously trying to get an experience for days. But everytime I fell asleep, I dreamt of silly, irrelevant things. This time, I had recently read Carlos Castaneda's "Journey to Ixtlan" and wanted to look at any part of my body in my dream.

This dream only lasted for 10 minutes. Ok, here goes:
I was sleeping on my bed. In my dream also, I "woke up" in my bed. I turned around and looked below. I saw the exact tint and design of the bed sheet. I couldn't see my face or the rest of my body, it was like "out of focus". But I saw my right hand! It was there... green in colour... glowing with radiant green energy.
I looked at it again and again. I was (say) 2 feet above bed hanging in mid-air in a horizontal position. I was unaware of my dream body. I was just looking. Then, I was outside in an instant, & I didnt know how I got there. I saw the road glittering with electric lights. I was moving through the trees that bordered the road. The leafy parts of the trees were foggy. As I moved ahead through the trees, I felt like passing through the same greenish cloud that constituted my hand.
The next thing was a yank and I woke up in my old bed!

[sesame]

Ok, this one is of a more serious nature. Altered state can be brought about not only be drugs, but also by intense meditation... and incantations. I want to relate about one of my own experiences brought about by Vedic incantations.
A powerful Holyman out of sheer kindness taught me an incantation. I checked out the Sanskrit verses and considered the incantation or mantra to be incorrect from a grammatical sense. All my life I had been a doubting ass . Anyway, after six years, out of desperation to catch a glimpse of the astral world, I decided to try out the mantra. I arranged for a clean empty room, sat down for japa (repeated incantation) on a clean blanket upon the floor. I faced East as prescribed. I started at 12 midnight and completed 6000 incantations by sunrise. During the incantations, my mind became quite empty, only the mantra could be heard inside my head. I repeated this for 3 days and nothing extra-ordinary happened during the sessions. I was pretty frustrated and blamed the faulty mantra (and the ignorance of its sourse, the Holyman) for my failure. As tradition commands, the Yogi should go on practicing with unswerving faith and concentration, without giving a single thought to success or failure. :D That is so... not easy!
Anyway, on the dawn of the sixth day, a really peculiar thing happened. I had completed the incantation for the night, and was putting things back to places... cleaning up the room. Then I laid down for the some rest. Suddenly an irregular blotch of white light came out of the wall and headed straight for me. All my strength vanished, muscles all over my body stopped obeying my frantic commands... I was paralysed and helpless... to top it all, my breathing stopped! Only my eyes worked, I looked fixedly at the light and started to ask for help with the same incantation. The light passed slowly over me and entered the opposite wall. Slowly my breath returned, then after two minutes, I could move my hands and feet.

Inference: Due to the incessant repetition of the mantra for long hours at a stretch, which is not a normal human behavor, my mind slowly entered an altered state. On the sixth day, I became conscious of some form of energy and that trauma pushed my bodily functions to a shutdown, temporarily. After that, I stopped the practice and never again witnessed such a light.

[ila]

Originally Posted by sesame

Inference: Due to the incessant repetition of the mantra for long hours at a stretch, which is not a normal human behavor, my mind slowly entered an altered state. On the sixth day, I became conscious of some form of energy and that trauma pushed my bodily functions to a shutdown, temporarily. After that, I stopped the practice and never again witnessed such a light.

But isn't the idea behind meditation and reptition of a mantra for the mind to enter an altered state? Could it be that the mantra really was faulty and that caused your bad experience? Or perhaps you were trying too hard or expecting too much and pushed your mind to an altered state that it was not prepared for?

[sesame]

Personally, I think, the experience was neither good, nor bad but above such things. Its an astral experience in the physical plane. That is very rare. The light actually materialised in the physical plane and I felt it with my whole body.
I was unprepared for such an experience, so I freaked out. May be I will try it again; this time I wont get traumatised :D

About the mantra: I have observed that there are many mantras in dialects or root syllables that work perfectly. These are all grammatically flawed. How do they work then?
Actually a mantra is simply a vessel of sound that contains the power of the Seer who utters them. If the Seer has power, the mantra performs what it is designed for. Mantras dont work for the doubtful.
Shraddha-vaan Labhate Gyanam = those who have faith attain wisdom.

[mop5]

can i know you

[mop5]

can i know you